Dortmund Team Bus Hit By Explosion; Bartra Injured - Suspect Arrested

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Tanksie said:

Using pipe bombs to target a football team is terrorism. Sorry German police.

Depends on the intent, mate. If there is no political motive it isn't terrorism.

[Fairy In Boots]

6 hours ago, VanPanna said:

Arsenal fan tv were at Dortmund last week.....

A new player in the global terrorism stage? They're certainly as deranged as ISIS

[Panna King]

 

[nudge+]

Some interesting developments in the story - as already mentioned, police are investigating a note found at the area of explosion with islamists claiming responsibility. Antifa apparently claimed responsibility for it too, it's being investigated now as well.

[Panflute]

35 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

I have never understood how groups just "claim responsibility" after an atrocity. Surely its not hard to go "Yeah, it was us!" after the event?

If there's been a note found claiming responsibility before the event then that's different but half of the claims I believe are just propaganda efforts.

Because otherwise there would be no point in doing it. Terrorists have political or religious motives, and those motives will never be apparent if they don't claim the attacks they organise. The goal of terrorism is not to kill as many people as possible (that is a means), but to spread terror. How are you going to make people fear you if they don't know you did it?

This is often overlooked by people who ask "why isn't [x] terrorism?" when referring to a robbery or a school shooting.

[Fairy In Boots]

15 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Because otherwise there would be no point in doing it. Terrorists have political or religious motives, and those motives will never be apparent if they don't claim the attacks they organise. The goal of terrorism is not to kill as many people as possible (that is a means), but to spread terror. How are you going to make people fear you if they don't know you did it?

This is often overlooked by people who ask "why isn't [x] terrorism?" when referring to a robbery or a school shooting.

Which makes the German polices claim that this isn't Terrorism all the more silly. 

Also reading Nudges post, Antifa talk about a way to completely destroy your political movement (not that they seriously had any) and make themselves utterly redundant. If it is them Governments will use this to close them down at every opportunity 

[Spike]

I domt think Antifa know what fascism actually is.

[The Artful Dodger]

4 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

I didn't mean it like that (I've probably worded it badly). I understand why terrorist groups take responsibility for attacks but my point was that they probably take responsibility for a handful of attacks that wasn't them.

If you for example, a lone wolf shot a few people in a shopping mall I bet the IS would be all over it saying that you were one of their fighters.

My point is that it would be interesting to know how many attacks were from an organised terrorist group and how many were actually just "claimed" by them.

Well IS, and Al-Qaeda, are not large, military style groups like the IRA were, ETA were and even the bader-meinhof group to an extent. It's more a core group of sour cunts out in the sand in Arabia and then it's just a message, a radical, anti-everything ideology which feeds off the mildly cretinous, criminal societal drop outs and tries to claim every possible 'attack' as their own. In some respects it makes it harder to defeat, but it also makes it a pretty pitiful organisation which clearly has no chance of growing beyond what it has, which is the core in the middle east and then losers in Europe/USA who attach themselves to them when their own lives fail.

The Paris attacks show signs of proper planning, because the attackers had been to the middle east but aside from that it's just them trying to gain the supposed credit.

[Panflute]

12 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

I didn't mean it like that (I've probably worded it badly). I understand why terrorist groups take responsibility for attacks but my point was that they probably take responsibility for a handful of attacks that wasn't them.

If you for example, a lone wolf shot a few people in a shopping mall I bet the IS would be all over it saying that you were one of their fighters.

My point is that it would be interesting to know how many attacks were from an organised terrorist group and how many were actually just "claimed" by them.

Why wouldn't they? It makes them seem larger than they actually are. You don't even have to organise your own attacks to achieve your goal (spreading fear).

[God is Haaland]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Which makes the German polices claim that this isn't Terrorism all the more silly. 

Also reading Nudges post, Antifa talk about a way to completely destroy your political movement (not that they seriously had any) and make themselves utterly redundant. If it is them Governments will use this to close them down at every opportunity 

Again the police did not claim it isn't terrorism. They answered that they don't have evidence supporting the idea that this was terrorism.

Islamist terror seems unlikely to them, because the way the whole operation was excecuted is completely untypical for IS. The police say they are investigating all possible motives, but it's obvious they wouldn't tell us what they know, because that would not be tactically sound.

[Panna King]

Merkel and the rest of the German government would link attacks to other things to cover up them letting in a load of terrorists.  

[God is Haaland]

4 hours ago, nudge said:

Some interesting developments in the story - as already mentioned, police are investigating a note found at the area of explosion with islamists claiming responsibility. Antifa apparently claimed responsibility for it too, it's being investigated now as well.

"Nazi_innen [...] Mensch_innen" doesn't sound like something a lefty would write. It's so dumb it sounds like somebody is making fun of feminism. To be fair though feminists are incredibly deluded and dense individuals.

Even "Rassist_innen" and "Rechtspopulist_innen" doesn't sound like something a lefty would write. I know Feminists are often insisting on adding the female suffix, but they are bitter and sexist people who would never add the female suffix to words with a negative connotation.  Feminists live in a black and white world where victims are always female and criminals are always male.

[nudge+]

1 hour ago, True Bender said:

"Nazi_innen [...] Mensch_innen" doesn't sound like something a lefty would write. It's so dumb it sounds like somebody is making fun of feminism. To be fair though feminists are incredibly deluded and dense individuals.

Even "Rassist_innen" and "Rechtspopulist_innen" doesn't sound like something a lefty would write. I know Feminists are often insisting on adding the female suffix, but they are bitter and sexist people who would never add the female suffix to words with a negative connotation.  Feminist live in a black and white world were victims are always female and criminals are alway male.

yeah that alleged post by Antifa looks fishy as fuck, it's also on a site that pretty much anyone can post under any chosen name, so it's probably completely fake. One can dream though

[nudge+]

Two islamist suspects, one has just been arrested.

Police are also looking for the getaway car with foreign (allegedly Belgian) license plate.

[Panna King]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

Two islamist suspects, one has just been arrested.

Police are also looking for the getaway car with foreign (allegedly Belgian) license plate.

Probably from Molenbeek

[nudge+]

Unconfirmed: the arrested suspect is said to be Lebanese with links to the Salafist movement in Düsseldorf.

[God is Haaland]

I don't believe this was an Islamist attack either.

1. A letter was left behind near the bus, but no video was released. Islamist usually don't leave letters behind, they claim their responsibility via video.
2. The letter was written solely in German.
3. The design of the bombs was extremely professional(directed blast, metal bolts, 3 linked devices, remotely fired), but the explosive mass was very, very little(only ~200g TNT equivalent). Islamists' devices are usually very amateurish and contain a higher amount of explosive mass.
4. The letter is too specific. The author blames the German government, addresses "Merkel" directly and mentions "Ramstein airbase" and German tornados in Syria. Islamists usually refer to the broad global, political and religous context whereby every non-muslim westener is made responsible for everything the US every did("imperial west", "Christian crusaders"). The author accuses Merkel of not caring about her own citizens.

It looks like this was a false flag attack. Neonazis and foreign intelligence agencies are likelier the perpetrators, than Islamists. Especially the Russian propaganda is trying to get rid of Merkel 24/7 and they are working together with German right wing politicians and even Nazis.

[Fairy In Boots]

3 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Well IS, and Al-Qaeda, are not large, military style groups like the IRA were, ETA were and even the bader-meinhof group to an extent. It's more a core group of sour cunts out in the sand in Arabia and then it's just a message, a radical, anti-everything ideology which feeds off the mildly cretinous, criminal societal drop outs and tries to claim every possible 'attack' as their own. In some respects it makes it harder to defeat, but it also makes it a pretty pitiful organisation which clearly has no chance of growing beyond what it has, which is the core in the middle east and then losers in Europe/USA who attach themselves to them when their own lives fail.

The Paris attacks show signs of proper planning, because the attackers had been to the middle east but aside from that it's just them trying to gain the supposed credit.

IS aren't a military style operation? Like ETA and the IRA were? When was the last time you looked into the Islamic State? They're engaged in Africa to now. 

40 minutes ago, True Bender said:

I don't believe this was an Islamist attack either.

1. A letter was left behind near the bus, but no video was released. Islamist usually don't leave letters behind, they claim their responsibility via video.
2. The letter was written solely in German.
3. The design of the bombs was extremely professional(directed blast, metal bolts, 3 linked devices, remotely fired), but the explosive mass was very, very little(only ~200g TNT equivalent). Islamists' devices are usually very amateurish and contain a higher amount of explosive mass.
4. The letter is too specific. The author blames the German government, addresses "Merkel" directly and mentions "Ramstein airbase" and German tornados in Syria. Islamists usually refer to the broad global, political and religous context whereby every non-muslim westener is made responsible for everything the US every did("imperial west", "Christian crusaders"). The author accuses Merkel of not caring about her own citizens.

It looks like this was a false flag attack. Neonazis and foreign intelligence agencies are likelier the perpetrators, than Islamists. Especially the Russian propaganda is trying to get rid of Merkel 24/7 and they are working together with German right wing politicians and even Nazis.

Although plausible, I highly doubt a bunch of skin heads are running around with pipe bombs as part of some grand plan for a new version of Manson's helmet skelter, with the backing of the Russian state.

A rogue nutter is my guess be that Islamic or of no religion. Trucks didn't fit ISIS's brief 18 months ago. 

[Tommy]

 

[The Artful Dodger]

29 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

IS aren't a military style operation? Like ETA and the IRA were? When was the last time you looked into the Islamic State? They're engaged in Africa to now. 

 

I very clearly state that that there is a small group in the Middle East which are trained, but these are an increasingly small force of very negligible ability and scope. IS are not a militiary significane to be reckoned with, if they were there would have been Western boots on the ground a long while back, they exist in a state of flux.

IS in Europe is not military at all, it's not even a proper organsatition. It's a message, propaganda tool which attracts the criminals and failures, but it's in no way an organisation and that shows in the pitiful nature of these attacks. The only one of clear organisation was the Paris, which was orchestrated by trained militants coming from Syria.

[Panflute]

In short, IS in Europe is a meme that got out of hand.

[Fairy In Boots]

3 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I very clearly state that that there is a small group in the Middle East which are trained, but these are an increasingly small force of very negligible ability and scope. IS are not a militiary significane to be reckoned with, if they were there would have been Western boots on the ground a long while back, they exist in a state of flux.

IS in Europe is not military at all, it's not even a proper organsatition. It's a message, propaganda tool which attracts the criminals and failures, but it's in no way an organisation and that shows in the pitiful nature of these attacks. The only one of clear organisation was the Paris, which was orchestrated by trained militants coming from Syria.

I've misunderstood you then I thought you were saying they weren't a military operation period. Agree they're not in Europe apart from cells of rogue agents. 

[Tommy]

 

[God is Haaland]

Nice little infographic. If you want anything translated, just ask.

Note that the bombs were placed just outside of the zone which is being observed by security cameras.

I like how the letter starts with "In the name of Allah, the mercyful"

The house on the other side of the street, 1st floor, ~25m away from the bombs.

[Spike]

7 minutes ago, Teso Dos Bichos said:

KidsLast night - Dortmund fans sharing their homes with Monaco fans. Tonight - Leicester fans shouting 'Gibraltar is ours'. Makes you despair.

Oliver Holt on point 

The only thing I'm despairing over is the comparison between Gibraltar's sovereignty and a terrorist attack.