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Hart Returns to City; Sirigu signs for Torino


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Not only would it be foolish for them to not get any value for him by selling him, I can't imagine Torino come even close to covering his full wages from City.

Would be surprising to see him return to Italy, and he'll probably end up at a mid-table EPL team next season.

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He wont be going back there unless he's really enjoying it - it's obvious he wont play for City again under Guardiola.

He needs to stay in England really for his international career too, there's a few English goalkeepers in good form at the moment.

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Depends how much Torino is paying for him? If they cover his wages then sure they're probably saving money doing that over selling him and can recall him heaven forbid anything happens. City have that money so wouldn't shock me if Pep is doing that. But they should just cut ties with him already.

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1 minute ago, Cannabis said:

More players playing around the continent would benefit the England team. It's backward thinking to suggest that the ones in the Premier League are somehow on a different level to the rest.

I hope he stays in Torino.

Didn't say they were on a different level, but they are playing at a higher standard in the Premier League.

I think if he stays in Italy he could lose his place to Heaton personally.

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I don't blame Pep for getting rid of him, he's not a world class keeper. He is quality and will do a good job for a side looking for a top 4 spot (Everton) but if City want to become the best then they need a world class keeper, don't think they'll find that in Bravo or Caballero though.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/17/2017 at 3:08 AM, Danny said:

I don't blame Pep for getting rid of him, he's not a world class keeper. He is quality and will do a good job for a side looking for a top 4 spot (Everton) but if City want to become the best then they need a world class keeper, don't think they'll find that in Bravo or Caballero though.

I disagree. With a good defence, you can get away with not having a world class keeper. Barcelona have been lacking that for ages. Arguably Real Madrid too.

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Just now, Cannabis said:

You have got to be joking?

Victor Valdes for me wasn't a world class keeper. Neither is Keylor Navas. The latter is very good but world class is pushing it for me.

Bravo at Barca is debatable.

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Just now, Cannabis said:

I'll give you Victor Valdes, I always though he was overrated. 

Keylor Navas has been nothing short of sensational during his time with Real Madrid. He's taken to nearly being shown the door in the whole David de Gea saga well and has proved himself as a top goalkeeper inbetween the sticks at the Bernebeu. Then you've got Claudio Bravo who was signed to be the understudy to Marc-Andre ter Stegen but again went above and beyond to prove himself as a top La Liga goalkeeper. He's been nothing short of horrendous at Manchester City but you're having a laugh if you're going to discredit his performances at the Camp Nou. 

Yeah mate I'm not discrediting his time at Barca. He was great. I actually defended him on here a while back, although I feel that they both lack something that Neuer and De Gea and Buffon (on form) have. Not sure if I'd call them world class. Very good yes though so maybe a wrong choice of keepers. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Definitely Valdes as one, although there have been many other examples. Joe Hart has won the Premier League twice as one example. 

My point was you don't need a good keeper to succeed. You can have a really shit keeper and still be the best team. It all depends on the defence. Without a good defence then a keeper will feel useless as they are all human. 

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14 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Again, I couldn't disagree more. 

If you look back at all the successful teams from history you will find that they all have a top goalkeeper. It's one of the most important positions on the pitch. You start every game at 0-0 and therefore have got yourself a point if things stay as they are. If you've got the best goalkeeper in the world (i.e - someone who can keep a clean sheet every week) then you're always going to pick up points regardless of how the strikers are doing. 

You can have a strike force of Messi, Ronaldo and RoboCop scoring ten goals a game but if you've got Harvey Price in goal you're probably going to lose more often than not. To say that you don't need a particularly good goalkeeper is short-sighted and whilst it'll probably be alright for a club like Torino it wouldn't work for a team like Juventus. 

Well it depends doesn't it?

I fully agree with the saying "attack wins you games, defence wins you championships". However, you can get away with not having a great keeper. If you have a really shit defence and a really shit keeper then that's a problem. If you have an organized defence and a shit keeper, then you can get away with it and this includes the holding midfielder. I'm not talking about this "score more goals than you concede" because if you can't play your way out of defence then how are you going to score the goals?

I'd bet that if Juve had Diego Penny in goal they'd still get away with it just because they have that backline and a good midfield. They'd have less chances to be the best but they could still manage it which is something I can't say the same about defence and midfield, my 2 priorities.

To me the most important thing for a keeper is to have a footballing brain. At Universitario we have to deal with a donkey of a keeper. That's where I learned that it's the most important aspect to have.

Edited by Guest
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Also, something I should mention about Joe Hart about not expecting mistakes. Its fair to say he hasn't been great in Italy, but its not all down to him. The entire season I've criticized that Torino backline which to me is just awful. They've really missed Kamil Glik and Bruno Peres. So while Joe Hart is definitely a victim here, not all the criticism has been warranted.

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28 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Also, something I should mention about Joe Hart about not expecting mistakes. Its fair to say he hasn't been great in Italy, but its not all down to him. The entire season I've criticized that Torino backline which to me is just awful. They've really missed Kamil Glik and Bruno Peres. So while Joe Hart is definitely a victim here, not all the criticism has been warranted.

They miss their super attacking wing back defensively? I don't think he did much defending. 

They had a very solid back 3 in Glik, Moretti and Maksimovic. Unfortunately it got taken apart

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1 hour ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

I disagree. With a good defence, you can get away with not having a world class keeper. Barcelona have been lacking that for ages. Arguably Real Madrid too.

I'll give you Victor Valdez, he wasn't a world beater. But both Bravo and Navas stood firm and beyond delivered during their time at their respective clubs. The only time Real Madrid may have been lacking was the end of Iker Casillas career, but even on that the guy was an absolute sensation for over a decade.

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15 minutes ago, ...Dan said:

They miss their super attacking wing back defensively? I don't think he did much defending. 

They had a very solid back 3 in Glik, Moretti and Maksimovic. Unfortunately it got taken apart

Bruno Peres was class though. Super offensive or not he's definitely a player they miss.

Defensively the back line now is horrible. It was decent before but now it's just flat out Awful.

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11 minutes ago, Dickie said:

I'll give you Victor Valdez, he wasn't a world beater. But both Bravo and Navas stood firm and beyond delivered during their time at their respective clubs. The only time Real Madrid may have been lacking was the end of Iker Casillas career, but even on that the guy was an absolute sensation for over a decade.

What Danny said was that City need a world class keeper to be the best which I disagree with because many teams have had keepers that weren't world class and were still considered the best. Navas and Bravo are both very good but I wouldn't consider either anywhere near the likes of Neuer, De Gea and Buffon (on form). Yet Barcelona and Real Madrid both still are considered the 2 best in the world generally. Again maybe it was a wrong choice of keepers and perhaps a poor choice of wording on my part as Barcelona and Real Madrid generally have very good keepers. World class or not, they are always very good and that's where I'll admit I was wrong in how I worded it. I just don't agree that they have to be world class as they really don't. The 2 priorities in my eyes are midfield and defence. As Barcelona showed with Valdés many years, you don't need a top keeper to succeed. If you have 10 outfield players who will do a job anyways sometimes it's enough.

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Regardless of how people rate Victor Valdes, he was class for Barcelona when needed.

The fact is good goalkeepers save points so to think you could get away with having an average keeper is madness.

I like Joe Hart but he's always had mistakes in him, you just can't concede some of the goals he does if you want to compete with the best in Europe.

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8 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

What Danny said was that City need a world class keeper to be the best which I disagree with because many teams have had keepers that weren't world class and were still considered the best. Navas and Bravo are both very good but I wouldn't consider either anywhere near the likes of Neuer, De Gea and Buffon (on form). Yet Barcelona and Real Madrid both still are considered the 2 best in the world generally. Again maybe it was a wrong choice of keepers and perhaps a poor choice of wording on my part as Barcelona and Real Madrid generally have very good keepers. World class or not, they are always very good and that's where I'll admit I was wrong in how I worded it. I just don't agree that they have to be world class as they really don't. The 2 priorities in my eyes are midfield and defence. As Barcelona showed with Valdés many years, you don't need a top keeper to succeed. If you have 10 outfield players who will do a job anyways sometimes it's enough.

I honestly don't think Navas wouldn't have done any better or worse if he swapped with any of those three keepers.

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5 minutes ago, Dickie said:

I honestly don't think Navas wouldn't have done any better or worse if he swapped with any of those three keepers.

Exactly, that was my point. Real Madrid have 10 other players that are good enough to bail the keeper out. I'm not speaking for Navas here as he is a very good keeper and doesn't need to be bailed out, but he's not world class to me. Falls just short of that tag. The argument was that you don't need a "world class" keeper to succeed. Having a solid keeper always helps but I've always prioritized the defence and midfield. 

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4 minutes ago, LaSambadeStGermain said:

Exactly, that was my point. Real Madrid have 10 other players that are good enough to bail the keeper out. I'm not speaking for Navas here as he is a very good keeper and doesn't need to be bailed out, but he's not world class to me. Falls just short of that tag. The argument was that you don't need a "world class" keeper to succeed. Having a solid keeper always helps but I've always prioritized the defence and midfield. 

Oh no I agree with what you say, just like I've always thought that you don't need a world beater on defense to have a great defense, if your backline can work as one in an organized and communicative fashion you're good (example Leicester last year). I'm just disagreeing to the statement that Keylor isn't World Class, I think he's shown enough to have that tag, but that's just me.

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  • The title was changed to Hart Returns to City but Torino Want To Extend Loan

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