Other Matches - 2nd & 6th February, 2019

[RandoEFC+]

13 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I don't think many Evertonians were genuinely pleased to lose, there is just a resigned apathy in the air at Goodison at the moment. It's a sad state of affairs there, I don't see things getting much better either. What should be a really promising time is turning into hell and if they're not careful they'll do a Villa.

I don't know about "hell" but yeah it really is just apathy. 

13 hours ago, Storts said:

We had this situation before when I was a child, admittedly it was the last day of the season and not early Feb but we were more than happy to do our bit and lose to united even after going a goal up 

Nope, you must be misremembering. Everton fans are the only fans in the world who would ever act this way because we're "a weird bunch" and/or "obsessed".

[Marc]

If I was an Everton fan I would’ve wanted to lose. I think I’d have done similar to what a few Everton fans did and not bothered going or offered my ST to someone. I wouldn’t have wanted to attend the game and now wanted my team to win.!

You've got to be a match attending supporter or at least local to your club to understand the hatred of s rivalry, colleagues in the office, friends that support the opposition etc. If Norwich/Ipswich were in that position (lol) why would I care if Norwich finished 10th instead of 9th if it means Ipswich not winning the league? If Everton had something to play for themselves it would be different.

[LFCMike]

7 minutes ago, Marc said:

If I was an Everton fan I would’ve wanted to lose. I think I’d have done similar to what a few Everton fans did and not bothered going or offered my ST to someone. I wouldn’t have wanted to attend the game and now wanted my team to win.!

You've got to be a match attending supporter or at least local to your club to understand the hatred of s rivalry, colleagues in the office, friends that support the opposition etc. If Norwich/Ipswich were in that position (lol) why would I care if Norwich finished 10th instead of 9th if it means Ipswich not winning the league? If Everton had something to play for themselves it would be different.

They do still have something to play for. They can potentially qualify for Europe this season depending on how the FA Cup pans out. It's a bit different if it's last game of the season with nothing to play for but there's a third of the season to go. The vocal minority of blues on social media etc are just embarrassing.

It's no surprise that someone who supports a small time club thinks like this though

[Smiley Culture]

 

Think it’s all bollocks. If you’re an Everton the same age as me (27) you’ve lived through one Everton trophy and even then you’d be hard pressed to remember it. 

In the time I’ve been on this planet, Liverpool have won three FA Cup’s, three League Cup’s, a UEFA Cup, two Super Cup’s and that coveted fifth Champions League Final. By now, at 27, you’d be pretty used to seeing Liverpool win trophies and I can’t imagine any were as unbearable for the Blue side to live through was that Champions League Final in Istanbul. 

Genuinely, would it be that bad if they won the league? Yeah, it would a bit comical if they didn’t win it after being seven points ahead of City but it’s not going to be as comical as that Gerrard slip against Chelsea that effectively put a pretty big nail in their coffin that season.

Everton are lightyears away from where Liverpool are as a club and if an Everton fan of my age or older isn’t capable of living while Liverpool win trophies then it’s a bid odd. 

I find it hard to comprehend that some fans wanted Everton to lose in midweek. I totally get that even some of the most ardent Evertonians were pretty certain they’d lose but that’s completely different. Surely, you’d want to win because of the fact Everton are 9th and now five points of European places. 

[Smiley Culture]

Just now, Cannabis said:

You just come across totally missing the point of real rivalry, which is understandable considering you don't follow a team.

No, I get rivalry but if you’re putting the outcome of your rivals above the outcome of your actual team, that’s just weird and small time, IMO. 

[Marc]

5 hours ago, LFCMike said:

They do still have something to play for. They can potentially qualify for Europe this season depending on how the FA Cup pans out. It's a bit different if it's last game of the season with nothing to play for but there's a third of the season to go. The vocal minority of blues on social media etc are just embarrassing.

It's no surprise that someone who supports a small time club thinks like this though

To be honest I forgot about the Europa league, partly because I don’t think Everton are likely to finish 7th at the moment. The mighty wolves, Watford etc are in pole position, But yes, good point.

I’ll take the small time club comment with a pinch of salt and assume you are attempting to wind me up or you are a non-match attending Liverpool ‘fan’ that Lacks the comprehension of supporting a club no matter how ‘big’ or ‘small time’ that club may be.

[Storts]

6 hours ago, LFCMike said:

They do still have something to play for. They can potentially qualify for Europe this season depending on how the FA Cup pans out. It's a bit different if it's last game of the season with nothing to play for but there's a third of the season to go. The vocal minority of blues on social media etc are just embarrassing.

It's no surprise that someone who supports a small time club thinks like this though

Think you're really wide of the mark here.

Roles reversed can almost guarantee it's the same. I'm the same as Marc, no way could I have gone to the game because natural instinct is to support your team, but I'd have sold my ticket and ignored the football for the evening.

I really don't think it's 'small-time' either, it's part of the parcel of proper rivalry, part of supporting your club is hoping your rivals do badly, in a season where Everton are just meandering along and not looking likely to do anything then you can completely understand why writing off a game to your detriment is in their interest.

 

[Rick]

1 hour ago, Storts said:

Think you're really wide of the mark here.

Roles reversed can almost guarantee it's the same. I'm the same as Marc, no way could I have gone to the game because natural instinct is to support your team, but I'd have sold my ticket and ignored the football for the evening.

I really don't think it's 'small-time' either, it's part of the parcel of proper rivalry, part of supporting your club is hoping your rivals do badly, in a season where Everton are just meandering along and not looking likely to do anything then you can completely understand why writing off a game to your detriment is in their interest.

 

Hoping your rivals do badly above hoping your own team does well is completely small time. 

[Storts]

10 minutes ago, Rick said:

Hoping your rivals do badly above hoping your own team does well is completely small time. 

Another one completely missing the point. 

 

[Smiley Culture]

2 hours ago, Storts said:

Think you're really wide of the mark here.

Roles reversed can almost guarantee it's the same. I'm the same as Marc, no way could I have gone to the game because natural instinct is to support your team, but I'd have sold my ticket and ignored the football for the evening.

I really don't think it's 'small-time' either, it's part of the parcel of proper rivalry, part of supporting your club is hoping your rivals do badly, in a season where Everton are just meandering along and not looking likely to do anything then you can completely understand why writing off a game to your detriment is in their interest.

 

That’s the thing though, a win, however unlikely because of who their opponents were, would have Everton two points behind Wolves for the race for 7th and European Football next season. 

European Football for the seventh time this century is a bigger prize than losing a game in February that may or may not effect the outcome of the Premier League. If this were April time and the number of games left were two or three, there may be a more pertinent discussion about the merits of losing a game but there’s 12/13 games left, over a third of a season, so I don’t think there’s really a debate here and IMO, Everton fans should have been wanting a win in midweek, however a defeat would have been less frustrating knowing the very small knock-on effect it has elsewhere. 

[Rick]

15 minutes ago, Storts said:

Another one completely missing the point. 

 

I'm not missing any point. The fact of the matter is as Smiley Culture has pointed out; Everton have 7th to fight for, thats European football!

They are a club that talks of building a new stadium, spends a shit ton on players and have an owner who wants to take them to the next level. For any fans to give up halfway through the season is pathetic enough, nevermind HOPING your team lose just so you can make it a little bit harder for your rivals. That's the definition of small time bullshit. 

[Stan]

14 minutes ago, Rick said:

I'm not missing any point. The fact of the matter is as Smiley Culture has pointed out; Everton have 7th to fight for, thats European football!

They are a club that talks of building a new stadium, spends a shit ton on players and have an owner who wants to take them to the next level. For any fans to give up halfway through the season is pathetic enough, nevermind HOPING your team lose just so you can make it a little bit harder for your rivals. That's the definition of small time bullshit. 

Or maybe they think 7th isn't as reachable as some fans expect given how inconsistent that bunch of teams are just outside the top six. 

And I'd guess Everton fans know their team better than any other fans. They may fight for it but don't want to raise expectations too high given they've been playing fairly poorly recently, too.

I say this purely based on the similarities of Everton and Leicester right now. Stadium expansion, spend lots on players, board (& fans) want us to get to next level but performances on pitch aren't amounting to anything too special (the inconsistency of good and bad results being all too consistent, weirdly). No cups to play for any more and so 7th is the next best thing. And even then European football isn't guaranteed if 7th is achieved anyway...

[Rick]

24 minutes ago, Stan said:

Or maybe they think 7th isn't as reachable as some fans expect given how inconsistent that bunch of teams are just outside the top six. 

And I'd guess Everton fans know their team better than any other fans. They may fight for it but don't want to raise expectations too high given they've been playing fairly poorly recently, too.

I say this purely based on the similarities of Everton and Leicester right now. Stadium expansion, spend lots on players, board (& fans) want us to get to next level but performances on pitch aren't amounting to anything too special (the inconsistency of good and bad results being all too consistent, weirdly). No cups to play for any more and so 7th is the next best thing. And even then European football isn't guaranteed if 7th is achieved anyway...

Every game counts though Stan, and will this not be a game played extra for them too? Whether or not you think your team can win, you should always WANT them to win. 

My opinion ain't going to change on this, and I think anybody trying to justify it with "aye but we're shit anyways" is weird.

 

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, Rick said:

Every game counts though Stan, and will this not be a game played extra for them too? Whether or not you think your team can win, you should always WANT them to win. 

My opinion ain't going to change on this, and I think anybody trying to justify it with "aye but we're shit anyways" is weird.

 

I agree.

I get the feeling majority felt that if they won, they won. If they didn't win, I guess they weren't that bothered either .

[LFCMike]

4 hours ago, Marc said:

To be honest I forgot about the Europa league, partly because I don’t think Everton are likely to finish 7th at the moment. The mighty wolves, Watford etc are in pole position, But yes, good point.

I’ll take the small time club comment with a pinch of salt and assume you are attempting to wind me up or you are a non-match attending Liverpool ‘fan’ that Lacks the comprehension of supporting a club no matter how ‘big’ or ‘small time’ that club may be.

It was a semi-wind up and maybe the small time club comment was a little harsh.

3 hours ago, Storts said:

Think you're really wide of the mark here.

Roles reversed can almost guarantee it's the same. I'm the same as Marc, no way could I have gone to the game because natural instinct is to support your team, but I'd have sold my ticket and ignored the football for the evening.

I really don't think it's 'small-time' either, it's part of the parcel of proper rivalry, part of supporting your club is hoping your rivals do badly, in a season where Everton are just meandering along and not looking likely to do anything then you can completely understand why writing off a game to your detriment is in their interest.

 

Nah I'm not having that fans should be thinking like that with a third of the season left and there's still stuff to play for. The 'we have no chance of getting a result' excuse is rubbish too given Manchester City had been beaten by three teams either on Everton's level or worse than them recently.

Like I said if it's at the end of the season with nothing to play for, I can understand that thinking but not now

 

[LFCMike]

6 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

 

 

A full hour of jimmie rustlement 

Do you actually offer anything to this site apart from shite, pointless posts like this?

[RandoEFC+]

10 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

 

Think it’s all bollocks. If you’re an Everton the same age as me (27) you’ve lived through one Everton trophy and even then you’d be hard pressed to remember it. 

In the time I’ve been on this planet, Liverpool have won three FA Cup’s, three League Cup’s, a UEFA Cup, two Super Cup’s and that coveted fifth Champions League Final. By now, at 27, you’d be pretty used to seeing Liverpool win trophies and I can’t imagine any were as unbearable for the Blue side to live through was that Champions League Final in Istanbul. 

Genuinely, would it be that bad if they won the league? Yeah, it would a bit comical if they didn’t win it after being seven points ahead of City but it’s not going to be as comical as that Gerrard slip against Chelsea that effectively put a pretty big nail in their coffin that season.

Everton are lightyears away from where Liverpool are as a club and if an Everton fan of my age or older isn’t capable of living while Liverpool win trophies then it’s a bid odd. 

I find it hard to comprehend that some fans wanted Everton to lose in midweek. I totally get that even some of the most ardent Evertonians were pretty certain they’d lose but that’s completely different. Surely, you’d want to win because of the fact Everton are 9th and now five points of European places. 

I do see where you're coming from but you fall down on two things.

1) I'm 26 and while I've seen Liverpool win plenty of trophies in my lifetime, they've only won one League Cup since about 2005 or 2006, when I'd have been 13, so it's been around half of your life and mine since they even won the FA Cup. It's not like we're accustomed to it happening year in, year out.

2) The league is different. The thought of them winning the league this season annoys me more than the potential for them winning the Champions League last season annoyed me. Going more than my lifetime without winning the title in England hurts them a lot more than any of the other trophies they've missed out on in the past. Thankfully the Crystanbul season served as a good trial run for them finally winning the league and allowed people like me who don't have memories of Liverpool winning the title to gain at least some insight into how insufferable it would be from the media and sections of their support if they actually got it done, so these days I feel pretty much mentally prepared to put up with it.

The argument is academic anyway. I have a lot of respect for the likes of @Marc and @Storts who admit without an agenda that they'd do the same as some of our fans did in the same situation.

It's been pointed out by our lot on Twitter countless times in recent days that Liverpool fans and pundits have been equally "small time" in the past wanting them to lose to Sheffield United to help us get relegated, and wanting them to lose to Chelsea to stop Man Utd from overhauling their record tally of league titles.

I would never support against my own team but I do understand. It takes me 5 minutes to get over us losing to Manchester City in a season where we're already going nowhere, but I'll be annoyed a lot longer if I have to put up with that lot winning the league. 

It's not small time anyway really, regardless of which fans do it. The reason it's so noisy on social media now is mostly because people are trying to wind up the rival fans. Not that many people actively support their team to lose in these scenarios.

[Storts]

11 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I do see where you're coming from but you fall down on two things.

1) I'm 26 and while I've seen Liverpool win plenty of trophies in my lifetime, they've only won one League Cup since about 2005 or 2006, when I'd have been 13, so it's been around half of your life and mine since they even won the FA Cup. It's not like we're accustomed to it happening year in, year out.

2) The league is different. The thought of them winning the league this season annoys me more than the potential for them winning the Champions League last season annoyed me. Going more than my lifetime without winning the title in England hurts them a lot more than any of the other trophies they've missed out on in the past. Thankfully the Crystanbul season served as a good trial run for them finally winning the league and allowed people like me who don't have memories of Liverpool winning the title to gain at least some insight into how insufferable it would be from the media and sections of their support if they actually got it done, so these days I feel pretty much mentally prepared to put up with it.

The argument is academic anyway. I have a lot of respect for the likes of @Marc and @Storts who admit without an agenda that they'd do the same as some of our fans did in the same situation.

It's been pointed out by our lot on Twitter countless times in recent days that Liverpool fans and pundits have been equally "small time" in the past wanting them to lose to Sheffield United to help us get relegated, and wanting them to lose to Chelsea to stop Man Utd from overhauling their record tally of league titles.

I would never support against my own team but I do understand. It takes me 5 minutes to get over us losing to Manchester City in a season where we're already going nowhere, but I'll be annoyed a lot longer if I have to put up with that lot winning the league. 

It's not small time anyway really, regardless of which fans do it. The reason it's so noisy on social media now is mostly because people are trying to wind up the rival fans. Not that many people actively support their team to lose in these scenarios.

Great post. As usual though on a topic involving Liverpool they have the blinkers on, and then wonder why the whole country is fairly united against them winning the league. Always double standards - I’m glad you raised those examples because I didn’t know about them but just emphasising the point I made earlier that they would do exactly the same in similar scenarios. 

 

[Cicero]

Gerrard became a Chelsea legend that day. 

[Rick]

For the record, I would say the same thing about any set of fans, even our own. You can try and justify it all you want, but in the end you just sound bitter and twisted. I'm not aiming those words at Cannabis or Storts or Rando in particular either, it's how I would describe anybody thinking that way about their own team.

[LFCMike]

22 minutes ago, Storts said:

Great post. As usual though on a topic involving Liverpool they have the blinkers on, and then wonder why the whole country is fairly united against them winning the league. Always double standards - I’m glad you raised those examples because I didn’t know about them but just emphasising the point I made earlier that they would do exactly the same in similar scenarios. 

 

Who's got the blinkers on? I said I understand if it's at the end of the season with nothing to play for, just not at this point. The Everton fan you're quoting didn't agree with those Everton fans who wanted to lose, I don't think?

I remember that Chelsea game. It was second to last game of the season. If I remember rightly, our chances of finishing inside the top four were next to none. Sure we needed Man City and Tottenham to both fail to win their final two games.. Ithink our support was split that day. I personally went there wanting to win to keep our extremely slim chances of 4th alive. There were others who weren't arsed it did want to get beat and there was one nobhead with a cringey banner

[RandoEFC+]

14 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Who's got the blinkers on? I said I understand if it's at the end of the season with nothing to play for, just not at this point. The Everton fan you're quoting didn't agree with those Everton fans who wanted to lose, I don't think?

I remember that Chelsea game. It was second to last game of the season. If I remember rightly, our chances of finishing inside the top four were next to none. Sure we needed Man City and Tottenham to both fail to win their final two games.. Ithink our support was split that day. I personally went there wanting to win to keep our extremely slim chances of 4th alive. There were others who weren't arsed it did want to get beat and there was one nobhead with a cringey banner

I didn't want us to lose, nor did most of our fans I'm sure nor fans of other clubs in the same scenario. I think most of the time it's just a "Don't care if we lose because at least it hurts our rivals" that fans of other clubs/the media transform into active support for the opposition to make a more significant discussion. There are some exceptions though, as ever.

[LFCMike]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I didn't want us to lose, nor did most of our fans I'm sure nor fans of other clubs in the same scenario. I think most of the time it's just a "Don't care if we lose because at least it hurts our rivals" that fans of other clubs/the media transform into active support for the opposition to make a more significant discussion. There are some exceptions though, as ever.

I agree, I said previously it's just a vocal minority.

Two of those exceptions are the two I'm arguing with here. Saying they wouldn't even watch it if they found their clubs in the same situation as Everton the other night

[Storts]

25 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Who's got the blinkers on? I said I understand if it's at the end of the season with nothing to play for, just not at this point. The Everton fan you're quoting didn't agree with those Everton fans who wanted to lose, I don't think?

I remember that Chelsea game. It was second to last game of the season. If I remember rightly, our chances of finishing inside the top four were next to none. Sure we needed Man City and Tottenham to both fail to win their final two games.. Ithink our support was split that day. I personally went there wanting to win to keep our extremely slim chances of 4th alive. There were others who weren't arsed it did want to get beat and there was one nobhead with a cringey banner

The fans of yours that are making this into a 'Everton a smalltime, we would never do such a thing' which I've seen a lot of.

I just don't think any Everton fan should be criticised for being content with losing a game to potentially stop you winning the league, in a season for them that is largely over. I've taken on board your Europe point, but really I'm not sure it carries much weight in the direction their season is going. 

We can agree to disagree 

[Rick]

4 minutes ago, Storts said:

The fans of yours that are making this into a 'Everton a smalltime, we would never do such a thing' which I've seen a lot of.

I just don't think any Everton fan should be criticised for being content with losing a game to potentially stop you winning the league, in a season for them that is largely over. I've taken on board your Europe point, but really I'm not sure it carries much weight in the direction their season is going. 

We can agree to disagree 

It's a small time attitude to have for ANY fan of ANY club, I just wanna make that point clear (though I have already several times). 

You say the argument of Europe doesn't "carry much weight"? I'm not sure how you can say that when the team's around them like Wolves, Watford & Leicester have been very inconsistent themselves. To be like "ah fuck it" is a bizarre attitude to have for me. 

And to go back to that Chelsea game mentioned, I was fully wanting us to win. Like Mike said we were relying on others to do us a favour but there was still that miniscule chance to qualify, and for me that's enough motivation.