Australian Politics

[Devil-Dick Willie]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

And that’s just federal blunders. Need another post just for local corruption in Sydney and another fir NSW.

Perotet told the residents of Lismore to get off the footpath so he his shoes wouldn’t muddy up. 

Nah that's okay, Duttons go fund me has them covered. 


An independent panel at the beginning of the la Nina season tabled the high risk areas to the federal government for where they should provide disaster preparation funds. Lismore was HIGH RISK on that report. 

Labor seats like lismore were ignored with pre disaster funding. Just like they pork barreled vaccines from Wollongong, Newcastle and the country for marginal sydney seats. 
They are genuinely the most horrid cunts we've ever had. 

[Harry]

9 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Man I wish @Harry were here. 

The libs were re elected. The deadcat issue they raised all of last election was over jobs at a coal mone in QLD. The mine was automated. 
In their recent term, the prime minister distanced himself from every catastrophe, was never held accountable at all. Then he created a natural disaster fund for disaster prevention and relief. None of it has been spent, it just sits accumulating interest while the north of the nation flooded out massively this year. He even pork barreled disaster relief! Fuck me dead.

He holidayed during the bushfires because he 'doesn't hold a hose' 0/10 on disasters. 

He bungled the pandemic lockdowns by palming them off to state governments, then fucked up aged care protections (a federal jurisdiction) resulting in most covid deaths being in care homes. PS. The royal commission into aged care found the federal government responsible for enormous lack of funding and neglect of Australias aged care systems and called it an embarrassment. 
Then he tried to monopolize Australian vaccines, as Astra Zenica only, because his mates are shareholders, resulting in a slow vaccine roll out, causing lengthy lockdown delays. Oh, and then they NSW liberal government pork barreled vaccines from labor seats into Lib seats. Fuck me dead.
Then he under ordered RATs, just like he under ordered vaccines.
Paid out huge cash bonuses to businesses who's bottom lines weren't even affected. Harvey Norman were making record proffits, but sure bro, here's a few billion, on the house mate.   0/10 on Covid. 

In defense, we gave the French 5 billion for literally nothing, cancelling a submarine deal, lying to them about it, pissed them off so hard their ambassadors left, and instead gave billions to the US for subs that might be here in 30 years. Also, the Solomon Islands are letting China build bases there because we cut their foreign aid every year. 0/10 on defense. 

Inflation is rising hard, wages have been stagnant for 10 years (damn, I wonder if that corresponds to a 10 year Liberal government?) Unemployment is at 4%! An awesome statistic, bar the fact it counts volunteers and people working 1hr per week as 'employed'
Plus the usual privatization of whatever they can, strip money from schools and hospitals ect ect. 
If you vote liberal you'll get $450 in the mail come tax time, but they're also stripping LAMITO (Low and middle income tax offset) which means people earning between 30k and 120k will pay THOUSANDS more in tax per year. Minimum 1k more tax for those on 30k. 
0/10 on finance. 

Oh, and we've dropped down the corruption index faster than Venezuela, and the federal ICAC promised last election was never tabled. The PM says they tabled it, but there is literally video of Labor asking them to, and Dutton refusing. I don't understand how he can lie so much and never get called out on it in public. 


But vote libs everyone, because the opposition leader forgot what the overnight cash rate was. 

Did I forget anything @Spike @Toinho

The mood is more ripe for a change of pm than it was in 2019, where I think it really came down to a bunch of undecideds choosing to give the new leader a shot.

This time Labor is offering a much shitter more cowardly alternative than 2019, with a much more dim-witted leader, and running very meek policy alternatives. But they have a class front bench that I would back over the liberal party in every position.

I hope they win. But I feel any of their shadow ministers would have made a better leader than Albo. Jim Chalmers is awesome. Penny Wong. Tanya plibersek. Bowen. All I think match up much better against Scomo.

 

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Toinho said:

That's just so depressing, reading through that. Do you think they'll be re-elected? 

 

Being markets have it 70-30 to Labor.

I'd be betting on a Labor led hung Parliament, with the teal candidates being the deciding vote, and choosing Labor after a hoo-ha because their two signature issues, climate and ICAC are the non negotiables that LNP will never agree to any meaningful policy 

[RandoEFC+]

I don't understand Australian politics but reading this thread, it sounds almost word-for-word for the current situation in the UK. Good luck to you, fellow victims of the Murdochian propaganda machine.

[Harry]

What's been driving me mad this campaign is the media bias.

Across almost all fronts it's becoming increasingly one way and increasingly overt.

Channel 7 & 9 are almost as openly supportive of liberal as the Murdoch media were 10 years ago. The Nine Fairfax papers, under the leadership of former treasurer Peter Costello as chairman have moved hard to the centre and are scattergun, but mostly acting like they have a debt to repay the coalition for changing the media ownership laws to allow the nine takeover of Fairfax.... The ABC is increasingly employing centre right hosts and frequently indulging in debating Murdoch media bad faith taking points as serious issues, desperate to prove its not left wing. And for all the public broadcasters pandering, where does it get them? Completely stonewalled from hosting an electoral debate. Refused by the PM. Treating them as biased and hostile, despite their rapid realignment. Meanwhile the ridiculous Murdoch propaganda Sky News hosts one, which noone I know could even watch since nobody has Foxtel, and people expect to find the debates on free to air tv. What a fucking joke!

[Harry]

Kooyong is an interesting contest this election. Monique Ryan was the head of neurology at the royal children's Hospital when my son was on her Ward with encephalitis.

She's a good person, and standing as an independent candidate, with Ted Bailleau's son running her campaign, having abandoned the Liberal party. Frydenberg is the MP, and would be the presumptive opposition leader if Scomo lost, but he's a fair chance of losing his seat in Kooyong. Which probably means we'll see Dutton as opposition leader, and taking on a negative Tony Abbott styled role with a media ensuring his claims of Labor chaos and economic mismanagement resonate into all Australian homes.

[Harry]

24 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I don't understand Australian politics but reading this thread, it sounds almost word-for-word for the current situation in the UK. Good luck to you, fellow victims of the Murdochian propaganda machine.

The Murdoch family men have fucked the world up more than just about anyone, and we haven't yet even seen the peak of it.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

32 minutes ago, Harry said:

The mood is more ripe for a change of pm than it was in 2019, where I think it really came down to a bunch of undecideds choosing to give the new leader a shot.

This time Labor is offering a much shitter more cowardly alternative than 2019, with a much more dim-witted leader, and running very meek policy alternatives. But they have a class front bench that I would back over the liberal party in every position.

I hope they win. But I feel any of their shadow ministers would have made a better leader than Albo. Jim Chalmers is awesome. Penny Wong. Tanya plibersek. Bowen. All I think match up much better against Scomo.

 

The first half of this is a load of shit. Albo is a great option for leader, smokes the libs top 3 in Scomo, Dutton and Frydenberg. As for the policy, Labor had a raft of brilliant policies lined up in 2019, and they were used as ammo against themselves. "Why change the greatest country on earth?" asked the Murdoch press. And it worked. Of course they'll be more moderate this time around. 

Undecideds is a kind word for it. Remember that 7.30 report episode on 'the quiet Australians' post election? A lady said that because Shorten wanted to build electric vehicles in Australia he was in 'la la land' because EVs are unrealistic. 

Now Tesla is by FAR the car company with the biggest market cap, demand for EVs far outstrips supply, and Labors plan would have gone gangbusters. Instead we ended up with a lying Maggie Smith. 
Stop regurgitating Murdoch points, I know you're not dumb, and wont vote libs this time round, but never fall for their BS. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

31 minutes ago, Harry said:

What's been driving me mad this campaign is the media bias.

Across almost all fronts it's becoming increasingly one way and increasingly overt.

Channel 7 & 9 are almost as openly supportive of liberal as the Murdoch media were 10 years ago. The Nine Fairfax papers, under the leadership of former treasurer Peter Costello as chairman have moved hard to the centre and are scattergun, but mostly acting like they have a debt to repay the coalition for changing the media ownership laws to allow the nine takeover of Fairfax.... The ABC is increasingly employing centre right hosts and frequently indulging in debating Murdoch media bad faith taking points as serious issues, desperate to prove its not left wing. And for all the public broadcasters pandering, where does it get them? Completely stonewalled from hosting an electoral debate. Refused by the PM. Treating them as biased and hostile, despite their rapid realignment. Meanwhile the ridiculous Murdoch propaganda Sky News hosts one, which noone I know could even watch since nobody has Foxtel, and people expect to find the debates on free to air tv. What a fucking joke!

You have a weird idea about the reality of things. Labor vs Liberal isn't 'right vs left' They're both moderates. The libs just minimize policy related to the actual running of the nation, and maximize donor profit, inflate the value of housing, make the country comfortable for multi nationals and use the media smoke screen to pretend everything is fine. The only issue they're at all right wing on is climate change, and again, that's just because it gets in the way of mining profit. 

Labor aren't at all left wing. They just actually want the country to improve and run smoothly. They aren't even big on climate policy either, they're just willing to do the minimum, compared to the libs who'd ignore it until parliament was on fire.

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

The first half of this is a load of shit. Albo is a great option for leader, smokes the libs top 3 in Scomo, Dutton and Frydenberg. As for the policy, Labor had a raft of brilliant policies lined up in 2019, and they were used as ammo against themselves. "Why change the greatest country on earth?" asked the Murdoch press. And it worked. Of course they'll be more moderate this time around. 

Undecideds is a kind word for it. Remember that 7.30 report episode on 'the quiet Australians' post election? A lady said that because Shorten wanted to build electric vehicles in Australia he was in 'la la land' because EVs are unrealistic. 

Now Tesla is by FAR the car company with the biggest market cap, demand for EVs far outstrips supply, and Labors plan would have gone gangbusters. Instead we ended up with a lying Maggie Smith. 
Stop regurgitating Murdoch points, I know you're not dumb, and wont vote libs this time round, but never fall for their BS.

The load of shit was your partisan tirade that started this whole discussion off.

Scomo fucking sucks. But half of what you pinned on him is partisan bullshit that would have happened, and been thrown back in the face of whoever was in government no matter which party.

I like Albo fine as an MP. I've spent 3 years singing his praises, and spreading his "him and his mum, commission housing to opposition leader" success story to everyone I think will listen. He'll be an able leader if he can win the election and obviously an upgrade on Scomo. But he's well down the pecking order within Labor in terms of having cut through with the average voter, which is exactly the problem shorten had (for different reasons), and he is the main reason this election is closer than it should be. And unfortunately, from that still negative favorability, and still less preferred pm to Scomo according to polling, his best case scenario is a one term government.... I wish it weren't so, but an unlikeable Labor leader will always be within a hairs breadth of the wheels of popular opinion falling off. Only undeniable charisma and confidence can overcome that huge media bias that is always blowing against his side of politics.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

The load of shit was your partisan tirade that started this whole discussion off.

Scomo fucking sucks. But half of what you pinned on him is partisan bullshit that would have happened, and been thrown back in the face of whoever was in government no matter which party.

I like Albo fine as an MP. I've spent 3 years singing his praises, and spreading his "him and his mum, commission housing to opposition leader" success story to everyone I think will listen. He'll be an able leader if he can win the election and obviously an upgrade on Scomo. But he's well down the pecking order within Labor in terms of having cut through with the average voter, which is exactly the problem shorten had (for different reasons), and he is the main reason this election is closer than it should be. And unfortunately, from that still negative favorability, and still less preferred pm to Scomo according to polling, his best case scenario is a one term government.... I wish it weren't so, but an unlikeable Labor leader will always be within a hairs breadth of the wheels of popular opinion falling off. Only undeniable charisma and confidence can overcome that huge media bias that is always blowing against his side of politics.

You miss the point entirely. Labor and Albanese want him to have a low profile, it is intentionally designed this way so the media can’t run 24/7 character assassination like they did with Shorten. Bill Shorten’s problem isn’t that he ‘couldn’t connect with the average voter’ it is because they came out on an aggressive platform that gave the media a lot of ammunition to turn against them. Hatchet jobs are more effective when there is a public persona to attack. The only reason they aren’t likeable is because they don’t get daily positive coverage from ever media outlet in the country, nothing do with their standards as people. What exactly is unlikable and dimwitted about Albanese?

Kevin Rudd had undeniable charisma and confidence. Yet he still only won because he had favourable Murdoch press at the time.

 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

The load of shit was your partisan tirade that started this whole discussion off.

Scomo fucking sucks. But half of what you pinned on him is partisan bullshit that would have happened, and been thrown back in the face of whoever was in government no matter which party.

I like Albo fine as an MP. I've spent 3 years singing his praises, and spreading his "him and his mum, commission housing to opposition leader" success story to everyone I think will listen. He'll be an able leader if he can win the election and obviously an upgrade on Scomo. But he's well down the pecking order within Labor in terms of having cut through with the average voter, which is exactly the problem shorten had (for different reasons), and he is the main reason this election is closer than it should be. And unfortunately, from that still negative favorability, and still less preferred pm to Scomo according to polling, his best case scenario is a one term government.... I wish it weren't so, but an unlikeable Labor leader will always be within a hairs breadth of the wheels of popular opinion falling off. Only undeniable charisma and confidence can overcome that huge media bias that is always blowing against his side of politics.

You think those things would have happened anyway?  You think hero of beaconsfield Shorten would have holidayed through the bushfires? 
You think Rudd would have crashed the economy? 
You think Gillard would have lied to the french? 

Once again, just like last election you make weird vague and baseless claims (you're still yet to tell me what vital function the libs actually fill)

[Spike]

18 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

You think those things would have happened anyway?  You think hero of beaconsfield Shorten would have holidayed through the bushfires? 
You think Rudd would have crashed the economy? 
You think Gillard would have lied to the french? 

Once again, just like last election you make weird vague and baseless claims (you're still yet to tell me what vital function the libs actually fill)

Yeah it's the weird 'Libs and Labouuur are the same thing' argument I will never get. If you are a banker, lawyer, property developer, and hate Unions, the Libs are literally the best political party on the earth.

Labor isn't perfect but nearly every positive thing for the average Australian is a direct consequence of historical Labor administrations. Even things like the gun ban were marred with the Libs tying the cost to increasing the Medicare levy. Which is bizarre to me, even bizarre how much the Libs tax for Medicare while rolling back it's benefits. Paying more for less, classic economics.

[Spike]

Well I mailed my vote. Won't do a thing to the safest seat in Australia but it's my citizen right to exercise my democratic opinion.

[Harry]

On 11/05/2022 at 01:09, Spike said:

You miss the point entirely. Labor and Albanese want him to have a low profile, it is intentionally designed this way so the media can’t run 24/7 character assassination like they did with Shorten. Bill Shorten’s problem isn’t that he ‘couldn’t connect with the average voter’ it is because they came out on an aggressive platform that gave the media a lot of ammunition to turn against them. Hatchet jobs are more effective when there is a public persona to attack. The only reason they aren’t likeable is because they don’t get daily positive coverage from ever media outlet in the country, nothing do with their standards as people. What exactly is unlikable and dimwitted about Albanese?

Kevin Rudd had undeniable charisma and confidence. Yet he still only won because he had favourable Murdoch press at the time.

Bill shorten had an image problem which struggled to recover from being the most influential power broker in the removal of Kevin Rudd. For most who didn't follow politics closely, that was the first time they noticed Bill existed. The guy who took away the leader they liked alot.

[Harry]

On 11/05/2022 at 08:38, Devil-Dick Willie said:

You think those things would have happened anyway?  You think hero of beaconsfield Shorten would have holidayed through the bushfires? 
You think Rudd would have crashed the economy? 
You think Gillard would have lied to the french? 

Once again, just like last election you make weird vague and baseless claims (you're still yet to tell me what vital function the libs actually fill)

You blamed Scomo for inflation being 5.1%. yet that is the OECD average. New Zealand is 6.9%. US is 8.3%. UK is 7%.

I don't like the LNP at all. I can't even remember when I last voted for them in a federal election, or even if I ever have at all since turning 18, and yet I sound like a rusted on liberal because I don't buy the BS that inflation is mainly the fault of the current government as opposed to broader issues like a pandemic and war in Europe.

 

[Spike]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

Bill shorten had an image problem which struggled to recover from being the most influential power broker in the removal of Kevin Rudd. For most who didn't follow politics closely, that was the first time they noticed Bill existed. The guy who took away the leader they liked alot.

I think Gillard inherited the reputation of removing Rudd from office, whether rightfully or not her reputation is three things 1; replacing Rudd, 2. laying the smackdown on Abbott in parliament, 3. making really hard decisions of asylum seekers. As you said most people didn't know who Shorten is, so I don't think many or even few think of him as a man that helped removed Rudd from office, they see him as how the newspapers assassinated him for his aggressive policy platform.

Unfortunately the character death of Rudd is very real, people refer to him as an 'autocrat' 'powermad' 'treats his staffers like slaves', and so on. I really don't know if many people would have been angry at Shorten by the time the last election rolled around.

[Harry]

8 hours ago, Spike said:

I think Gillard inherited the reputation of removing Rudd from office, whether rightfully or not her reputation is three things 1; replacing Rudd, 2. laying the smackdown on Abbott in parliament, 3. making really hard decisions of asylum seekers. As you said most people didn't know who Shorten is, so I don't think many or even few think of him as a man that helped removed Rudd from office, they see him as how the newspapers assassinated him for his aggressive policy platform.

Unfortunately the character death of Rudd is very real, people refer to him as an 'autocrat' 'powermad' 'treats his staffers like slaves', and so on. I really don't know if many people would have been angry at Shorten by the time the last election rolled around.

Shorten was the one angling to remove him, and Gillard's agreement to his proposal meant the move was on... I agree that was a terminal blow for Gillard's popularity (who was quite popular before that moment), because at the time the Australian people were blind to the dysfunction, and the whole move looked more like a power grab driven by ambition. But this was also the moment shorten became a household name. The term "faceless man" of the labor party who wielded all the power, was much talked about. People resented him having the ability to overturn the leader they elected. This was a huge blow to shortens likeability, and one of the things Rudd addressed when returning to the PM role by changing the rules to make it harder to challenge for the leadership in Labor. 

These days most people know and understand Rudd is a brilliant but massively flawed narcissist and would not want to see him as PM again. 

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Shorten was the one angling to remove him, and Gillard's agreement to his proposal meant the move was on... I agree that was a terminal blow for Gillard's popularity (who was quite popular before that moment), because at the time the Australian people were blind to the dysfunction, and the whole move looked more like a power grab driven by ambition. But this was also the moment shorten became a household name. The term "faceless man" of the labor party who wielded all the power, was much talked about. People resented him having the ability to overturn the leader they elected. This was a huge blow to shortens likeability, and one of the things Rudd addressed when returning to the PM role by changing the rules to make it harder to challenge for the leadership in Labor. 

These days most people know and understand Rudd is a brilliant but massively flawed narcissist and would not want to see him as PM again. 

Shorten was never a household name and still isn’t. I have literally never heard or read anything about Shorten being the ‘faceless man’ or being resented from people I know or the media. I think you are vastly over rating a very niche and esoteric view. I don’t think any of this had anything to do with the popular opinion of Shorten, he ran an aggressive campaign and it backfired, that is really all there is to it. 99% don’t know anything about Shorten’s involvement with the Rudd disposal and I also think you give him far too much credit for the spill.

Every single political leader is a narcissist, water is also wet. It isn’t even a viable criticism, it is a prerequisite. . 

 

 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

You blamed Scomo for inflation being 5.1%. yet that is the OECD average. New Zealand is 6.9%. US is 8.3%. UK is 7%.

I don't like the LNP at all. I can't even remember when I last voted for them in a federal election, or even if I ever have at all since turning 18, and yet I sound like a rusted on liberal because I don't buy the BS that inflation is mainly the fault of the current government as opposed to broader issues like a pandemic and war in Europe.

 

1. You can't compare our GDP to the OECD behemoths. The US and Australia have vastly different styles of economies. 

2. It's not 5.1%. It was over 2% last quarter, meaning the number will be over 8% within the next couple. 

3. Our Inflation number has been fucked by the liberals harder than a kid in a confessional. They removed housing for example. What do you think the number might be if you added housing back into it? A commodity with an average price of a milly that's risen 30% in a year? 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

As an economics student, let me fucking tell you 1 thing @Harry. Financially, covid really wasnt that big a deal. There was a sharp, short economic decline in most countries, and then a huge rebound and markets continued on to new highs. 

Labor avoided recession in 2008, spending a 3rd of what the libs did, to NOT avoid a recession, in a much less turbulent financial time. 
in 2008 entire economies tanked, huge banks and firms went bust, lehman brothers, bear sterns, greece, spain, ireland, all bit the fucking bullet. Compare that to covid where most markets were unaffected, some improved, and most that were hit had a massive rebound. 

[Beelzebub]

I know almost shit about economics, I should cause its a bit embarrassing as an adult in this day and age.

[Spike]

4 hours ago, Aladdin said:

I know almost shit about economics, I should cause its a bit embarrassing as an adult in this day and age.

International economics are black magic, there is no shame in not understanding.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

10 hours ago, Aladdin said:

I know almost shit about economics, I should cause its a bit embarrassing as an adult in this day and age.

There's only a few things you should familiarize yourself with. Because these are the things that you should use to help vote, or affect you directly. 

GDP
Inflation
Trade agreements and trade intensity
How the strength of your currency affects your spending power, and how it affects exports.
Unemployment stats
Taxes and subsidies for negative/positive externalities. 
Fiscal vs monetary policy
Interest rates and their role in combating inflation.
And maybe a little about price elasticity of demand. 


Here's a real world example

Our shitbag prime minister is blocking a $1 rise in minimum wage, and a wage rise for the public service which is an idea offered by the opposition to help create a wage rise throughout the whole economy. (this is an example of a fiscal policy)
The Prime Minister says 'the only way to make wages rise is to reduce unemployment, and we have unemployment at record lows, so you can trust us to drop it further'

First of all, while unemployment levels do contribute to wage growth, this is happening less and less as corporations get greedier and greedier, and look for new ways around rising wages to attract employees (look at the US, where lots of people are happily unemployed and companies are offering signing bonuses, and 6 month/1 year bonuses but not raising wages) 

2ndly His unemployment stats are more doctored than Frankensteins monster. 

And finally, if that were the case, wouldn't wages have risen already given we have record low unemployment? Damn. Makes ya think right? 


Someone with no idea about economics will happily parrot the PM. Someone who's even covered it at a high school level knows better. 
 

[Beelzebub]

9 hours ago, Spike said:

International economics are black magic, there is no shame in not understanding.

The famous National Treasure was actual black magic stuff found by founding fathers of America ( who were freemasons )