The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Stan]

Some of the videos and pictures this morning on Twitter were harrowing  

[Azeem]

On 12/05/2021 at 14:20, McAzeem said:

Full scale ground invasion is quite possible on Gaza. Something tells me Gantz the opposition head & ex-army chief is calling the shots. 

If this gets approved then it's blood bath 

[UNIQUE]

isreal have fighter jets and the other mob have slingshots but you have to take your hat off to them. they keep fighting and wont quit. the only way this will ever stop is to give isreal to the palestinians and remove all the jews. if you tried to make peace and let them all live together and share all the land the muslims would kiil the jews at a rate not seen since the first panzer division rolled up in poland. 

[Azeem]

Israel has gone too far-right. Breaking every agreement of it's legally prescribed borders, forcing occupation. That's the real problem.

Read from any source that how that region has never been exclusive to only one group, maintaining peace through out periods of history than the fuck up we have now. 

The American far-right religious zealotry who's wet dream is to have a doomsday scenario in the region, to fulfill their 'prophecies' is also a fuck up. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by McAzeem

[Azeem]

1 minute ago, McAzeem said:

Israel has gone too far-right. Breaking every agreement of it's legally prescribed borders, forcing occupation. That's the real problem.

Read from any source that how that region has never been exclusive to only one group, maintaining peace through out periods of history than the fuck up we have now. 

The American far-right religious zealotry who's wet dream is to have a doomsday scenario in the region, to fulfill their 'prophecies' is also a fuck up. 

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/history/articles/the-state-of-israel-as-the-gateway-to-end-times

Read up on this. I see many people are not aware or don't know fully how much that U. S. has people in highest positions who care and pursue some misinterpretations of religious texts than any national policy or international law. Crazy

[UNIQUE]

tbh if world peace is anyones goal then the first place to start is to scrap religion. 

[MUFC]

1 minute ago, UNIQUE said:

tbh if world peace is anyones goal then the first place to start is to scrap religion. 

The only way to achieve world peace is by massaging women's feet. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

9 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Israel/Palestine is probably the biggest gap in my knowledge when it comes to major political conflicts in current/recent history. I do intend to read up on it. It doesn't help that all of the reporting in the West seems to be done entirely through the lens of Israel's relationship with the UK/US and this obsession with picking a side and it becoming a cynical proxy "you're racist, no you're racist" discourse between political factions in those countries. 

For now, all I can say is that it's terrible to see the casualties of so many innocents on both sides. People are talking about countries having a right to defend themselves, about laws, constitutions, etc. I'm sorry but if you're carrying out air strikes and killing children then neither of you are the good guys.

I agree with you that neither of them are good guys for what they're doing to innocent people. But I do think it's a bit fucked up when the side that's got access to the most advanced military tech in the world blows up things like schools and residential buildings in Gaza, they hide behind "well they're launching missiles from civilian areas."

Yeah, no shit they're launching missiles from civilian areas. It's Gaza. There are a lot of people living in a very small area (360 square kilometres, for 1.1 million people to live in). They don't have non-civilian areas to mount operations on and from the perspective of the Palestinian refugees living there - they've been civilians that have been deemed fair targets by Israel for so many years.

I think it was stupid of Hamas to fire missiles at a time where Western media has probably been the most sympathetic to the Palestinians it's ever been in my lifetime. I think them doing launching rockets, which might be understandable for typical Middle Eastern relations, does not do much to spread their message of: "End Israel's Apartheid!"

Because it's hard to get people to back you when you seem to not give a shit about whether or not civilians get killed (unless you buy weapons from the US, UK and EU - then the West will usually turn a blind eye to your civilian killing).

It's fucked up to say this, but I think in order for Palestinians to get justice... they have to market themselves to the mainstream western media consumer, in a way that makes them look sympathetic and not scary. Because seeing bearded men praising Allah firing rockets into residential neighborhoods isn't sympathetic to the cause of them ending the shitty treatment they get on a daily basis from Israel.

At the end of the day, non-bigots - both Arab and Jew in Israel/Palestine (and Christian, Palestinian Christians are often forgotten, and face discrimination from BOTH sides as well - but can also be guilty of discrimination themselves; the Middle East is truly wonderful in terms of how many different people can abuse each other) are the biggest victims of all this.

[MUFC]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I agree with you that neither of them are good guys for what they're doing to innocent people. But I do think it's a bit fucked up when the side that's got access to the most advanced military tech in the world blows up things like schools and residential buildings in Gaza, they hide behind "well they're launching missiles from civilian areas."

Yeah, no shit they're launching missiles from civilian areas. It's Gaza. There are a lot of people living in a very small area (360 square kilometres, for 1.1 million people to live in). They don't have non-civilian areas to mount operations on and from the perspective of the Palestinian refugees living there - they've been civilians that have been deemed fair targets by Israel for so many years.

I think it was stupid of Hamas to fire missiles at a time where Western media has probably been the most sympathetic to the Palestinians it's ever been in my lifetime. I think them doing launching rockets, which might be understandable for typical Middle Eastern relations, does not do much to spread their message of: "End Israel's Apartheid!"

Because it's hard to get people to back you when you seem to not give a shit about whether or not civilians get killed (unless you buy weapons from the US, UK and EU - then the West will usually turn a blind eye to your civilian killing).

It's fucked up to say this, but I think in order for Palestinians to get justice... they have to market themselves to the mainstream western media consumer, in a way that makes them look sympathetic and not scary. Because seeing bearded men praising Allah firing rockets into residential neighborhoods isn't sympathetic to the cause of them ending the shitty treatment they get on a daily basis from Israel.

At the end of the day, non-bigots - both Arab and Jew in Israel/Palestine (and Christian, Palestinian Christians are often forgotten, and face discrimination from BOTH sides as well - but can also be guilty of discrimination themselves; the Middle East is truly wonderful in terms of how many different people can abuse each other) are the biggest victims of all this.

Problem is most of the media is zionist run. 

[Azeem]

Hezbollah reportedly has fired rockets as well

[UNIQUE]

1 minute ago, MUFC said:

Problem is most of the media is zionist run. 

ive said this in other threads. its not news anymore its propaganda. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, UNIQUE said:

ive said this in other threads. its not news anymore its propaganda. 

News has always been biased and been written to push a particular slant - that has never been new. It's written by people, after all 

People need to get better at thinking critically about the news they see, read, and hear... because as there's been a greater access to information/disinformation, people have stopped thinking about the sources of information they get. And that's how you end up with people getting their "news" from idiots just making shit up on YouTube.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Ground incursion of Gaza looking imminent with tanks massing outside Gaza...

This is going to be an absolute bloodbath. All because Netanyahu wants to cling onto power despite his corruption trial and inability to form a government.

[UNIQUE]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

News has always been biased and been written to push a particular slant - that has never been new. It's written by people, after all 

People need to get better at thinking critically about the news they see, read, and hear... because as there's been a greater access to information/disinformation, people have stopped thinking about the sources of information they get. And that's how you end up with people getting their "news" from idiots just making shit up on YouTube.

yes but i dont think its ever been as bad as it is now. and also you cant trust any news outlet so what do you do. you can either pick one or dont listen to any of them. 

[UNIQUE]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Ground incursion of Gaza looking imminent with tanks massing outside Gaza...

This is going to be an absolute bloodbath. All because Netanyahu wants to cling onto power despite his corruption trial and inability to form a government.

tbh that could be a good thing. atleast no more rockets just being shot from both sides. lets hope the soldiers fight and no more unarmed people get killed. 

[Azeem]

Gaza is more densely populated than NY. It will be complete urban warfare 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, UNIQUE said:

yes but i dont think its ever been as bad as it is now. and also you cant trust any news outlet so what do you do. you can either pick one or dont listen to any of them. 

You'd be wrong, I think. Taking a look at some papers from the 1920s and 1930s and it's full of misinformation that was deliberately made to not give people accurate news.

Whereas nowadays we live in in an era where literally all of the information in the world (and all of the disinformation in the world) is available at our fingertips. If something sounds bullshit to you, you can go look into whether it is bullshit.

The worst thing you can do with getting news nowadays is just "picking one" source of information. One source is more likely to misinform and have you believing in something that is total bullshit. The second worst thing you can do is automatically not trust anything you hear because "you can't trust anything."

If you want accurate news, you've just got to go out and get it. But I think getting good news has never been particularly easy.

Granted, it was easier to trust mainstream news when the BBC was still funded decently and before Tories decided they'd be better off if our state media was absolute rubbish. I remember when Al Jazeera started taking all of the BBC's good journalists. Now I'm not even sure the BBC has good journalists anymore  - well done Tories, sending British jobs to Qatar

[UNIQUE]

3 minutes ago, McAzeem said:

Gaza is more densely populated than NY. It will be complete urban warfare 

when the shooting starts just prey that hamas does not hide behind the children as they have been known to do. like i said when i joined the thread without giving up isreal and removing the jews i cant see any other way this shit will stop. 

[UNIQUE]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You'd be wrong, I think. Taking a look at some papers from the 1920s and 1930s and it's full of misinformation that was deliberately made to not give people accurate news.

Whereas nowadays we live in in an era where literally all of the information in the world (and all of the disinformation in the world) is available at our fingertips. If something sounds bullshit to you, you can go look into whether it is bullshit.

The worst thing you can do with getting news nowadays is just "picking one" source of information. One source is more likely to misinform and have you believing in something that is total bullshit. The second worst thing you can do is automatically not trust anything you hear because "you can't trust anything."

If you want accurate news, you've just got to go out and get it. But I think getting good news has never been particularly easy.

Granted, it was easier to trust mainstream news when the BBC was still funded decently and before Tories decided they'd be better off if our state media was absolute rubbish. I remember when Al Jazeera started taking all of the BBC's good journalists. Now I'm not even sure the BBC has good journalists anymore  - well done Tories, sending British jobs to Qatar

fuck me im not that old  the BBC are now just a far left bunch of ass holes. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, UNIQUE said:

tbh that could be a good thing. atleast no more rockets just being shot from both sides. lets hope the soldiers fight and no more unarmed people get killed. 

Mate, it's Palestine. Rockets are just about their only weapons - they'll definitely still be firing them. It's going to be the IDF vs. outnumbered, outgunned, Palestinian kids - many of whom won't even have actual guns to fight. They'll have to resort to dirty guerilla tactics the Iraqi insurgency did, remote bombs, booby traps, and probably suicide bombers.

[UNIQUE]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Mate, it's Palestine. Rockets are just about their only weapons - they'll definitely still be firing them. It's going to be the IDF vs. outnumbered, outgunned, Palestinian kids - many of whom won't even have actual guns to fight. They'll have to resort to dirty guerilla tactics the Iraqi insurgency did, remote bombs, booby traps, and probably suicide bombers.

its just a shit storm all round. 

[El Profesor]

With the be

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You'd be wrong, I think. Taking a look at some papers from the 1920s and 1930s and it's full of misinformation that was deliberately made to not give people accurate news.

Whereas nowadays we live in in an era where literally all of the information in the world (and all of the disinformation in the world) is available at our fingertips. If something sounds bullshit to you, you can go look into whether it is bullshit.

The worst thing you can do with getting news nowadays is just "picking one" source of information. One source is more likely to misinform and have you believing in something that is total bullshit. The second worst thing you can do is automatically not trust anything you hear because "you can't trust anything."

If you want accurate news, you've just got to go out and get it. But I think getting good news has never been particularly easy.

Granted, it was easier to trust mainstream news when the BBC was still funded decently and before Tories decided they'd be better off if our state media was absolute rubbish. I remember when Al Jazeera started taking all of the BBC's good journalists. Now I'm not even sure the BBC has good journalists anymore  - well done Tories, sending British jobs to Qatar

 

Agree. Media was probably even worse in the past. What we have though is the benefit of the hindsight and the work of historians, who work to fill the gaps and find the lies. 

 

I mean, in the 1890s New York media barons such as Pulitzer and Hearst published a barrage of lies in their newspapers regarding Cuba in order to push US involvement in the Spanish-Cuban war and increase the sale of newspapers. 

 

 

[El Profesor]

Honestly, I just don´t see how Israel can have a normal relationship with its non-jewish population.

The idea of a jewish state in itself is in contradiction with a liberal, non-confessional and multiethnic state. There are good reasons, obviously, that led to its foundation, I´m not going to deny it. But the concept of Israel in my opinion is always going to involve a degree of "jewish supremacy" in its internal borders. 

The basic problem since its territorial expansion in 1967 remains: they need that territorial expansion in order to avoid being pushed to the sea by a second Nasser, but at the same time they treat the native population of these territories as colonized not as citizens. This, on its turn, estimulates the anti-israeli feelings in the region and we end up falling in a non-ending circle of hostility. 

I wish there was an easy fix and the two-state solution came into fruition, but I doubt it´ll happen in my lifetime.

 

[6666]

2 hours ago, El Profesor said:

Honestly, I just don´t see how Israel can have a normal relationship with its non-jewish population.

The idea of a jewish state in itself is in contradiction with a liberal, non-confessional and multiethnic state. There are good reasons, obviously, that led to its foundation, I´m not going to deny it. But the concept of Israel in my opinion is always going to involve a degree of "jewish supremacy" in its internal borders. 

The basic problem since its territorial expansion in 1967 remains: they need that territorial expansion in order to avoid being pushed to the sea by a second Nasser, but at the same time they treat the native population of these territories as colonized not as citizens. This, on its turn, estimulates the anti-israeli feelings in the region and we end up falling in a non-ending circle of hostility. 

I wish there was an easy fix and the two-state solution came into fruition, but I doubt it´ll happen in my lifetime.

It's still struggling to have a normal relationship with its black Jewish population let alone its non-Jewish population. Things would be easier without right wing, fascist politicians.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Israeli troops have entered Gaza...