The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[6666]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The Houthis are awful people, you’re just praising them because they’re attacking the right people” in your eyes.

Wow you figured it out. Well done.

You may want to look at things lazily in a black and white way and good luck with that but that's not gonna be me. "These are the good guys on the international scene and they only do good things and those are the bad guys that only do bad things" is a very media trusting way to look at things though. It's sweet.

[Dr. Gonzo]

15 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Wow you figured it out. Well done.

You may want to look at things lazily in a black and white way and good luck with that but that's not gonna be me. "These are the good guys on the international scene and they only do good things and those are the bad guys that only do bad things" is a very media trusting way to look at things though. It's sweet.

You’re the one looking at it in black and white, genius. So yes, that is emphatically “gonna be you”

I’m not sitting around praising Hamas, the IDF, the Houthis, etc. You’re the one who’s now praised Hamas and the Houthis. You’ve obviously taken a side. And you think it’s just to back one of two genocidal sides.

I laughed at the media trusting bit though

[Spike]

4 hours ago, 6666 said:

Wow you figured it out. Well done.

You may want to look at things lazily in a black and white way and good luck with that but that's not gonna be me. "These are the good guys on the international scene and they only do good things and those are the bad guys that only do bad things" is a very media trusting way to look at things though. It's sweet.

That’s what you do.

[6666]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You’re the one looking at it in black and white, genius. So yes, that is emphatically “gonna be you”

I’m not sitting around praising Hamas, the IDF, the Houthis, etc. You’re the one who’s now praised Hamas and the Houthis. You’ve obviously taken a side. And you think it’s just to back one of two genocidal sides.

I laughed at the media trusting bit though

 

1 hour ago, Spike said:

That’s what you do.

Specifically saying that there are no good guys and that I judge on a case by case basis where "If they're doing bad things, I say they're doing bad things but if they're doing good things, I say they're doing good things" is suddenly now a case of treating things as being too black and white when compared to people saying "They're bad so everything bad. Circumstances don't matter "... Sure. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, 6666 said:

 

Specifically saying that there are no good guys and that I judge on a case by case basis where "If they're doing bad things, I say they're doing bad things but if they're doing good things, I say they're doing good things" is suddenly now a case of treating things as being too black and white when compared to people saying "They're bad so everything bad. Circumstances don't matter "... Sure. 

 

I mean... with Hamas you haven't even said they're bad. You said what they did was akin to a slave revolt (even though... they're meant to be the fuckin' government of Gaza). You think the Houthis shooting missiles that... aren't doing anything other than interfering with shipping lanes and are going to cause the US Navy to strike (which means more death for Yemenis) is a good thing. To your credit, you did come close to saying the Houthis are bad (but at this point, I'm going to have to assume that's because they're Shia) - but you still think they're doing a good thing.

So you're taking bad actions that haven't resulted in anything other than death of innocents - and you're attributing good qualities to them because you've taken a side. You taking a side and seeing these things as "bad" or "good" is very much seeing the world in black and white.

[6666]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I mean... with Hamas you haven't even said they're bad. You said what they did was akin to a slave revolt (even though... they're meant to be the fuckin' government of Gaza). You think the Houthis shooting missiles that... aren't doing anything other than interfering with shipping lanes and are going to cause the US Navy to strike (which means more death for Yemenis) is a good thing. To your credit, you did come close to saying the Houthis are bad (but at this point, I'm going to have to assume that's because they're Shia) - but you still think they're doing a good thing.

So you're taking bad actions that haven't resulted in anything other than death of innocents - and you're attributing good qualities to them because you've taken a side. You taking a side and seeing these things as "bad" or "good" is very much seeing the world in black and white.

You playing the "both sides are equally responsible" card, which implies Palestinians should be more tolerating of their oppression without any resistance, might make sense to you but no sane minded person who's being objective and empathetic is going along with that.

I have also said that I'm able to criticise Hamas for the wrong that they do but as far as standing up to Israel, can't blame them for that at all. Same with the Houthis. That's the opposite of viewing things in black and white. Viewing certain parts as good or bad isn't a contradiction to that as I'm acknowledging it's not all one thing and that it is made up of different parts. Something which you're not doing.

The sad and unfortunate thing is that it will probably lead to the deaths of more innocent people but that'd be the fault of those that view killing people in the middle east as normal, not the fault of those standing up to it. Just like slave rebellions, the slave masters punishing slaves and being harsher with slaves after rebellions wasn't the fault of slaves that dared to step out of line. I can stay consistent with that logic. Some will go "No point rebelling when you know it's gonna lead to a brutal response and it'd be your fault" one day and "of course they're gonna rebel, the brutal response proves what they have to deal with and their rebelling should be applauded" on another day...

[Spike]

I am Spartacus

Edited December 20, 2023 by Spike

[Dr. Gonzo]

59 minutes ago, 6666 said:

You playing the "both sides are equally responsible" card, which implies Palestinians should be more tolerating of their oppression without any resistance, might make sense to you but no sane minded person who's being objective and empathetic is going along with that.

I have also said that I'm able to criticise Hamas for the wrong that they do but as far as standing up to Israel, can't blame them for that at all. Same with the Houthis. That's the opposite of viewing things in black and white. Viewing certain parts as good or bad isn't a contradiction to that as I'm acknowledging it's not all one thing and that it is made up of different parts. Something which you're not doing.

The sad and unfortunate thing is that it will probably lead to the deaths of more innocent people but that'd be the fault of those that view killing people in the middle east as normal, not the fault of those standing up to it. Just like slave rebellions, the slave masters punishing slaves and being harsher with slaves after rebellions wasn't the fault of slaves that dared to step out of line. I can stay consistent with that logic. Some will go "No point rebelling when you know it's gonna lead to a brutal response and it'd be your fault" one day and "of course they're gonna rebel, the brutal response proves what they have to deal with and their rebelling should be applauded" on another day...

So what the fuck do you think Hamas were thinking on October 7? How was it meaningful resistance?

They knew it would lead to Israel obliterating Gaza. They were counting on it.

I’m not playing the card of anyone being responsible. I’m not doing mental gymnastics to justify the unjustifiable. I’m not going to do that.

If you can rationalise the indiscriminate bombing of a densely populated area with tons of children for a sustained period of months - you’re a monster. By the same token, if you can rationalise a savage terror attack like Hamas’s… you’re also a monster.

It’s easy (and safe) to cheer on a terror attack sitting behind a computer screen in the west. But make no mistake, Hamas knew what their attack meant for the people of Gaza - they were counting on it. So by cheering Hamas on, don’t think you’re not one of the many westerners who don’t value middle eastern lives. The kids of Gaza deserve better than having their government use them as sacrificial lamb pawns in geopolitics.

I don’t know what it is about this conflict that causes so many to lose the ability to have objective rational thought & why some are so quick to leave humanity behind. The propaganda of this is so wild, I hope it’s well studied.

The inception of Israel was poorly thought out and western countries are to blame. But genocide is wrong, full stop. Terrorism is wrong, full stop. The governments and leadership of both Israelis and Palestinians have failed their citizens, their neighbors, and the world - for decades. Justification of any of their recent crimes is impossible.

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

So what the fuck do you think Hamas were thinking on October 7? How was it meaningful resistance?

They knew it would lead to Israel obliterating Gaza. They were counting on it.

I’m not playing the card of anyone being responsible. I’m not doing mental gymnastics to justify the unjustifiable. I’m not going to do that.

If you can rationalise the indiscriminate bombing of a densely populated area with tons of children for a sustained period of months - you’re a monster. By the same token, if you can rationalise a savage terror attack like Hamas’s… you’re also a monster.

It’s easy (and safe) to cheer on a terror attack sitting behind a computer screen in the west. But make no mistake, Hamas knew what their attack meant for the people of Gaza - they were counting on it. So by cheering Hamas on, don’t think you’re not one of the many westerners who don’t value middle eastern lives. The kids of Gaza deserve better than having their government use them as sacrificial lamb pawns in geopolitics.

I don’t know what it is about this conflict that causes so many to lose the ability to have objective rational thought & why some are so quick to leave humanity behind. The propaganda of this is so wild, I hope it’s well studied.

The inception of Israel was poorly thought out and western countries are to blame. But genocide is wrong, full stop. Terrorism is wrong, full stop. The governments and leadership of both Israelis and Palestinians have failed their citizens, their neighbors, and the world - for decades. Justification of any of their recent crimes is impossible.

 

[Azeem]

 

[Azeem]

Prosperity guardian is a stupid name imo.

This could be a UK's Suez Canal like moment for US. Huge ? on credibility of US. 

[Azeem]

Reminder: Srebrenica is widely called out for what it was and not made a complex topic because the perpetrators are disliked by the West also as mini-Russia lol

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

Reminder: Srebrenica is widely called out for what it was and not made a complex topic because the perpetrators are disliked by the West also as mini-Russia lol

Tbf loads of people have been calling what Israel has done to Palestinians genocide, even before this massive flare up in the conflict.

It is genocide, according to the UN definition. It maybe doesn’t have international recognition… but there have been loads of genocides that definitely were genocides that don’t have international recognition because of geopolitical reasons.

It’s wrong to not recognise genocide but it’s not exactly unique to this conflict.

[6666]

3 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

Reminder: Srebrenica is widely called out for what it was and not made a complex topic because the perpetrators are disliked by the West also as mini-Russia lol

Different rules for "allies" regardless of how obvious it is that they're scum. People even get mad and gaslight whoever stands up to those types of countries...

[Azeem]

 

[Goku de la Boca]

First time in years Mohamed Salah doesn't take a Christmas photo. Wonder if he got threats this time

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, Goku de la Boca said:

First time in years Mohamed Salah doesn't take a Christmas photo. 

For me it's hard to fathom that people give a shit about this. 

[Goku de la Boca]

2 hours ago, Tommy said:

For me it's hard to fathom that people give a shit about this. 

I agree but Muslims take their religion and faith very seriously.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Goku de la Boca said:

I agree but Muslims take their religion and faith very seriously.

Christmas isn’t a very Islamic holiday tbf

[Goku de la Boca]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Christmas isn’t a very Islamic holiday tbf

He just posted about it. I spoke too soon 

[MUFC]

 

[MUFC]

https://www.change.org/p/demand-simon-wolfson-s-resignation-from-next-plc-due-to-alleged-support-of-genocide

[Spike]

Two Aussie brothers died in a a bomb strike on Lebanon

[Azeem]

Is it something in the soil or some biological weapon causing friendly fire ?

[Azeem]

A Lebanese Australian man who went back to Lebanon to bring his wife to Australia for safety has been killed by an Israeli attack along with his wife. Australian government is saying he was Hezbollah family are rejecting it.

This is dangerous precedent. Indian govt recently also killed a Canadian Sikh and the response has been timid to say the least. Western govts are openly giving the signal that as long as the entity that does killing is not disliked by them, they don't care even if they are their citizens from certain backgrounds.