The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[OrangeKhrush]

The FDD reviewed the report of Famine in Gaza and dismissed all cases of Famine as highly implausible and a front to try stop a war through falsifying humanitarian claims.   

The FDD also rejects the claims of IDF preventing supply and found that Israel allows more than twice the UN's required 200 trucks a day.   They found that distribution once it gets there is a problem and that is because Hamas massacre any civilian that goes near it.    

It is time to pressure Hamas into ensuring distribution of supplies. 

[OrangeKhrush]

On 19/06/2024 at 07:43, Beelzebub said:

And this militancy/terrorism by Zionists was not aimed at the Palestinians but chiefly at the British. To understand this the key event was the White Paper of 1939 about Palestine issued by the British parliament.

In early 1939, it was clear that another world war was on the horizon, British were worried about their two prized colonies Palestine and subcontinent. There were fears Germany Italy will aid the Arabs in Middle East and the Japanese would aid the Indians in subcontinent against Britain and the locals had all the reasons to take their support since Brits had duped and molested them so many times ,the Arab revolt of 1936 and Indian revolt of 1857 which although failed but left lasting acrimony in the local populations.

Eventually many figures like Mufti Hussaini and Chandra Bose from India who indeed sought help from Axis powers to liberate their countries, even Gandhi once threatened that he will consider allying with Japan if Brits don't give Indian demands.

To placate the situations above British knew the issue of Palestine was one of the main reasons why the Arabs and Indian Muslims loathed the Brits. So in Feb 1939 House of Commons passed the White Paper on Palestine which practically said that the Balfour declaration of 1917 was unfair and never actually meant that a Jewish state must be established, restricted Jewish immigration and sale of land for 5 years and insured creation of a Palestinian state in 10 years with representative bodies based on population proportion which obviously meant Palestinian majority. 

While eventually none of these promises apart from restricted immigration were fulfilled, but this paper greatly pissed off the Zionists. Ben-Gurion famously said in a speech that now we will act as the state in Palestine until we actually become the state and if Brits try to supress us, our rebellion will be more unpleasant than the Arab rebellion. 

After this the Zionists concluded that

a) Britain was no longer the patron for their Zionist ambitions and they need a new patron

b) Britain intends to keep Palestine like other colonies and they need to force the British out of Palestine even through violence

For the first, they started to shift their overseas lobbying efforts from Britain to you guessed it right, USA. A conference was held at Biltmore Hotel in NY in 1942 to signal this shift.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biltmore_Conference

For the second,multiple Zionist militias started attacks on British personnel and assests in Palestine. They attacked British rail networks, killed British soldiers and civilians, destroyed ships which were meant to stop illegal immigration. These gradual attacks kept happening throughout WW2 with varying intensity.

Infamous among of these acts of militancy/terrorism by Zionists was the assassination of British minister of Middle East affairs in Cairo, Lord Moyne in 1944.

Churchill was livid after the murder of Moyne bcz not only was he a high ranking official but also a personal friend. He gave the following angry speech in the parliament following his murder.

" If the dreams of Zionism are to end in the smoke of assassin's pistols and our labor for its future only to produce a new set of gangsters worthy of Nazi Germany, many like myself will have to reconsider our position... "

This was a serious threat and many Zionist leaders like Ben-Gurion condemned the murder, disassociating with it but that was temporary as Ben-Gurion a year later was in full support of violence and contacted affluent Zionists in US to send ammunition and even setup plants in Palestine.

In 1946, Zionists first carried out a series of attacks on bridges that connected Palestine to neighboring areas which were vital for logistics for the British. The Brits had enough after that and started to crackdown on Zionist settlements, confiscated enough ammunition to arm whole infantries, some documents outlying Zionist plans and arrested a number of Zionists including one future Israeli PM.

In retaliation to this, Zionists carried out the most famous incident of militancy/terrorism, the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The hotel housed many British offices and was the primary seat of British administration. Multiple bombs rocked the building killing around a hundred people, destroyed many offices and the documents confiscated by Brits outlying Zionist plans were also destroyed. 

The attacks continued in 1947, Zionists attacked a British officer's club killing around 38 people and tried a jail break to free the captured Zionist militant/terrorists. During the jail-break the British captured 5 militants/terrorists, two of them were pardoned due to being underage but rest three were sentenced to death. In retaliation, Zionists captured two British sergeants as hostages and demanded the release of their comrades. Brits didn't kowtowed and executed the three and the Zionists also keeping their word hanged the two sergeants, booby trapped their hanging bodies with explosives in case anyone tried to cut them down. 

It was under these circumstances the Brits decided to take the case of Palestine to U.N themselves. Then British foreign minister, Ervin Bevin, openly denounced the creation of a Jewish state and gave a sarcastic livid speech aimed at the Americans for supporting Zionist militancy/terrorism and forwarded his case to UN that Palestine should remain in a trusteeship under British assurance. However Zionists and Americans wanted to partition Palestine with the lion's share going to Zionists and rest is history.

 

One less understood point from all this is that Brits and Zionists was a transactional relationship, they went from best chumps to active hostilities and one cannot help but think that US-Israel bromance will also go down the same route one day ? with younger American generation more aware of the ground situation due to social media and boomer politician class like Biden Trump one feet in the grave, Zionists lobby groups will eventually decide to ditch US as hub of their activities. 

 

The image on reverse search is some insane Arab Qanon where conspiracy theories run rampant.   At this point most is made up shit. 

Yes Israel went to war with the Brits and forced them to pull out,  much of that was caused by the resentment of the Brits and Americans for denying access to hundreds of thousands of Jews that were fleeing the third Reich.

Quote

President Harry Truman was sympathetic to Zionism because of his evangelical Christian upbringing. He endorsed the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan for Palestine to create an Arab state and a Jewish state and, despite opposition from within the administration, recognized the State of Israel on May 14, 1948.

Truman, however, refused to send weapons to either side of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, because he viewed the conflict as a source of instability in the face of the emerging communist threat. In that war, 750,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled, becoming refugees from the land that became Israel.

President Dwight Eisenhower also sought to prevent Soviet penetration into the Middle East and attempted to maintain impartiality toward the Arab-Israeli conflict. He even threatened to cut off all official and private aid and to expel Israel from the U.N. to force Israel’s withdrawal from Egyptian territory, the Sinai, in 1957.

The US relations with Israel really only started after 1967,  before that it was tepid at best. 

[Azeem]

> acknowledges Zionists used force out of resentment against whom they deemed as an oppressive entity (Brits)

> doesn't get the whole point that also same can be applied to Palestinians

by the way Zionist militias didn't just target Brits. I was going to include this in the original post but it was getting too long. Folke Bernadotte was a Swedish official who saved many Jews and non-Jews from Nazi concertation camps. He was appointed as a mediator by UN in Palestine, there he saw the cleansing and displacement of Palestinians first hand and was reporting back to what he deemed as an appropriate solution when he was assassinated by Zionists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

 

 

[Spike]

On 20/06/2024 at 23:59, Beelzebub said:

> acknowledges Zionists used force out of resentment against whom they deemed as an oppressive entity (Brits)

> doesn't get the whole point that also same can be applied to Palestinians

by the way Zionist militias didn't just target Brits. I was going to include this in the original post but it was getting too long. Folke Bernadotte was a Swedish official who saved many Jews and non-Jews from Nazi concertation camps. He was appointed as a mediator by UN in Palestine, there he saw the cleansing and displacement of Palestinians first hand and was reporting back to what he deemed as an appropriate solution when he was assassinated by Zionists.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Bernadotte

 

 

Why are you posting like this is 4chan lol

[Azeem]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

Why are you posting like this is 4chan lol

How do they post on 4chan ?

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

How do they post on 4chan ?

You are formatting with the > which is how quotes are written

[Azeem]

1980s some Palestinians in West Bank started a dairy farm of their own for self-sufficiency but Israel declared them 18 cows as a national security threat for harming Israeli business interests launching a military operation to find and confiscate the cows.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/22/the-wanted-18-a-tale-of-talking-cows-and-palestinian-rebellion

 

[MUFC]

 

[Azeem]

The idea of Greater Israel is only supported by the religious hardcore zionist factions in Israel, as indicated in this video, the secular elements oppose it as see it as a pipedream. 

The whole idea stems from the interpretations of the 'Holy Land' which is based on Abraham's journey in the scriptures. Abraham was from Ur, Babylon but he was exiled from there for disobedience and told to dwell in this promised land. But neither the land is defined clearly nor journeys of Abraham and you have all these different interpretations of them. 

[MUFC]

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, MUFC said:

 

God I wish these two would both get on a poorly constructed submarine and attempt to visit the Titanic.

[OrangeKhrush]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

God I wish these two would both get on a poorly constructed submarine and attempt to visit the Titanic.

There is a new Billionaire wanting to build his own Titan like project

[Azeem]

 

[6666]

Israel continuing to be cunts. No surprise there.

[Azeem]

[Azeem]

 

[6666]

Nazi Israel continuing to bomb refugee camps. They've gotten away with it many times before so they'll get away with it again. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

20 hours ago, 6666 said:

Nazi Israel continuing to bomb refugee camps. They've gotten away with it many times before so they'll get away with it again. 

This is going to keep happening because neither side is really serious about a ceasefire, even though Hamas had a breakthrough in getting Israel to commit to a permanent ceasefire if hostages are released. But Hamas doesn't want to release all of the hostages, and Israel wants a veto on the selection of Palestinian hostages to be released - I can't see a world where the leadership of either side views this compromise as palatable.

Reports indicate that Netanyahu no longer takes any pressure from the US in ending the war seriously after Biden looking like a reanimated corpse (but with no energy) seriously. And we both know it's not like the US ever puts a tremendous amount of pressure on Israel, but Biden has been pushing for a permanent ceasefire... and it's unlikely Netanyahu even answers his calls now. And he probably won't unless democrats have a good result in November... which basically all polling is suggesting that is a pipe dream. Israel barely listens to the US, but they don't really listen to anyone else.

But otherwise, I can't see Israel changing course anytime until January where a new US president comes in. The problem there is it's most likely going to be Trump - and Trump is most certainly not someone who gives a fuck about Palestinian human rights and was really big on pandering to Israel. After all, he did manage to enflame the region just to make Jerusalem have the US embassy and recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capitol even though there was no reason to do this other than to make Netanyahu happy. And he was president when the US released Jonathan Pollard, the spy who likely gave Israel nuclear capability, to Israel - where he would go on to be a cheer leader for the radical Ben Gvir and advocate for further displacement of Palestinian Arabs to make room for illegal Israeli settlements.

And as the war drags on we're seeing more and more Palestinians in Gaza willing to come forward and speak out against Hamas and even hold protests against them. Sadly, we're seeing Palestinians resisting Hamas being brutally repressed by Hamas - because maintaining control of the Gaza strip has always been more important to them than the wellbeing of Palestinians.

Gotta feel for Palestinians who live under Hamas. The double oppression of being seen as worthless lives to Israel's government, and merely sacrificial pawns by their own government is insane. I don't see how this ends without massive international pressure applied to both Israel and Palestinian leadership. We've seen for decades and decades now, Palestinian leadership and Israeli leadership don't have the appetite or willingness to make peace and live as neighbors. And while I never would have supported the creation of Israel, the fact is well before most people alive today were born - Israel was created, it would be hard to "undo" this without committing another atrocity like the Nakba but with the shoe on the other foot... so I don't think that's really palatable.

But with Israel's PM seeing this war as a way to keep himself in power and out of a jail cell, I can't see this ending without western support for Israel involving putting meaningful pressure on them; and by the same token, I don't think Hamas will ever be serious about peace until the likes of Iran, Qatar, and now Turkey (weirdly) don't use them as pawns for their own political agendas.

I don't see that happening anytime soon and I think Hamas bit off way more than it could chew on October 7th, thinking that attack would be treated the same as other attacks in the past - they thought it would be a vicious response from Israel, but only lasting a few months. Instead I think they've got an IDF and an Israeli government that are going to treat all Palestinians as Hamas and are probably going to be hoping for a land grab of large chunks of Gaza as the end-game for this war.

[6666]

Nazi Israel with another airstrike on one of their fake "humanitarian zones" that they forced Palestinians to go to.

Genuinely have no idea how anyone can suggest that Palestinians should just accept Israel as their masters. It is completely understandable the amount of hate Palestinians have for Israel. And you'd have to be a complete lowlife to suggest that Palestinians having small moments where they stand up for themselves is then justification for the way Israel treats Palestinians.

Fuck Nazi Israel and fuck every single Zionist extremist. A terrorist state that deserves to burn in hell.

[Azeem]

When are Western countries planning to formally recognize and establish relations with the Taliban ? apart from the succinct point made in the above post, countries already have either formally estb relations with them like China who is digging minerals out of there or are dealing with them indirectly through 'special representatives'. US is also channeling them millions of $$$ per week as per their agreement.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/afghanistan-taliban-tax-dollars-after-withdrawal/

UAE's president (pro-US ally) recently even invited one of the top wanted Taliban leaders and had a soiree with his team

With all of this going on in the background then why countries are keeping this pretense ? just formally accept them. As Dr. Gonzo said, Israel has happened despite whatever one thinks of its creation 'undoing' it seems quite hard, then so are the Taliban they are here to stay and as the the original post said they have a more legitimate claim to govern then Israel. Or should another 20 years war be initiated to undo them ? 

Ah muh but they are tALiBan look what they are doing to women. Look what Israel is doing to women, children and pretty much anyone who's not a Zionist, has been doing since its creation. 

[Rucksackfranzose]

2 hours ago, Azeem said:

When are Western countries planning to formally recognize and establish relations with the Taliban ? apart from the succinct point made in the above post, countries already have either formally estb relations with them like China who is digging minerals out of there or are dealing with them indirectly through 'special representatives'. US is also channeling them millions of $$$ per week as per their agreement.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/afghanistan-taliban-tax-dollars-after-withdrawal/

UAE's president (pro-US ally) recently even invited one of the top wanted Taliban leaders and had a soiree with his team

With all of this going on in the background then why countries are keeping this pretense ? just formally accept them. As Dr. Gonzo said, Israel has happened despite whatever one thinks of its creation 'undoing' it seems quite hard, then so are the Taliban they are here to stay and as the the original post said they have a more legitimate claim to govern then Israel. Or should another 20 years war be initiated to undo them ? 

Ah muh but they are tALiBan look what they are doing to women. Look what Israel is doing to women, children and pretty much anyone who's not a Zionist, has been doing since its creation. 

When was the last time Israel executed the capitol punishment by stoning, again? With all due respect to your opponence towards Israel and its zionism as well as your being Muslim: Comparing Israel with the Taliban, or Saudi-Arabia, while we're at it is ridiculous.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Azeem said:

When are Western countries planning to formally recognize and establish relations with the Taliban ? apart from the succinct point made in the above post, countries already have either formally estb relations with them like China who is digging minerals out of there or are dealing with them indirectly through 'special representatives'. US is also channeling them millions of $$$ per week as per their agreement.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/afghanistan-taliban-tax-dollars-after-withdrawal/

UAE's president (pro-US ally) recently even invited one of the top wanted Taliban leaders and had a soiree with his team

With all of this going on in the background then why countries are keeping this pretense ? just formally accept them. As Dr. Gonzo said, Israel has happened despite whatever one thinks of its creation 'undoing' it seems quite hard, then so are the Taliban they are here to stay and as the the original post said they have a more legitimate claim to govern then Israel. Or should another 20 years war be initiated to undo them ? 

Ah muh but they are tALiBan look what they are doing to women. Look what Israel is doing to women, children and pretty much anyone who's not a Zionist, has been doing since its creation. 

The Taliban is here to stay, but I'm not sure the Western world should be having normal diplomatic relations with them. If the West is concerned with China dominating their rare earth minerals like lithium, have an ally like Pakistan or the UAE get in on competing with China for resources and have US/EU funding for these deals to give those allies the kind of financial weight to compete with China. That way the west isn't abandoning economic interests, helps strengthen an ally in this sensitive part of the world, yet not have to be directly involved with a terror state's government. The US, EU, UK, etc. aren't Afghanistan's neighbors, they don't have any real interest or reason in Afghanistan other than those lithium mines honestly. But countries like Pakistan are US allies, the UAE is a US ally too. Pakistan's a neighboring country and the UAE's close enough to the region (although its technically not the Middle East when you're talking about Afghanistan) and close enough culturally for them to have a vested interest - and their alliances and relations with the West are important enough to where I think they'd be happy enough to be mediators for western economic interests so long as they get their cut.

5 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

When was the last time Israel executed the capitol punishment by stoning, again? With all due respect to your opponence towards Israel and its zionism as well as your being Muslim: Comparing Israel with the Taliban, or Saudi-Arabia, while we're at it is ridiculous.

Is stoning someone more unjust than an indiscriminate bombing campaign or the collective punishment of a people due to threats of terrorism? I say this as someone who has absolutely 0 love for the Taliban: I'm not sure their human rights violations come anywhere near Israel's. The Taliban will kill you for things like: you're the wrong flavour of Muslim and too Shia to be allowed to live or because you're the wrong type of ethnicity that's historically been living on that land for 1000s of years - but never in quite the same scope and scale of how Israel's gone about fighting their wars.

Capitol punishment by stoning is objectively a terrible thing. Bombing refugee camps and hospitals, imo, is also objectively terrible... and honestly, I think it's much worse. Beheading someone for being Shia, Persian/Tajik, like the Taliban do, is backwards and obviously wrong. So is collective punishment of a population due to the actions of a terror group hiding within them. And again, the scope and scale of the human rights abuses, when you compare them, are so much more deadly.

As for why the western world won't ever cut ties with Israel... it's not hard to see why. Israel would never have been established without the West - Israeli zionists needed western support in order to form their nation. And ultimately the reason of "why is Israel in what used to be called Palestine" is because of centuries of human rights violations against the Jewish people by Europeans culminating in the Holocaust resulting in world powers being in support of a nation the Jewish people could call home - and decades of the Israeli zionist movement (which I believe originated in the UK) having the opportunity to push for their goal with the biggest players on the world stage in the immediate aftermath of the second world war.

The West is uniquely culpable for the state of the Israel-Palestine conflict, I don't think it's something they can ever wash their hands of - nor should they. There are other instances in Middle Eastern history where the West has caused significant damage to people... lasting generations - and then washed their hands clean of their mistakes and crimes; it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and millions are still reeling from the aftermath decades later.

Imho the West and the more powerful Arab nations have the most responsibility to bring about peace between Israelis and Palestinians. Because god knows if left to their own devices, they'll keep this war waging for eternity.

[Azeem]

18 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

When was the last time Israel executed the capitol punishment by stoning, again? With all due respect to your opponence towards Israel and its zionism as well as your being Muslim: Comparing Israel with the Taliban, or Saudi-Arabia, while we're at it is ridiculous.

Speechless. Israel literally does insane inhumane shit which Dr. Gonzo has pointed out on a much bigger scale.

Your post again confirms the original post about the double standards of the West and shows the deep rooted belief in the Western mind (long before 9/11) including common folks like you that the epitome of a cartoonish evil has to be a Muslim i.e Trump shooting is a case of 'political violence' but if a Muslim did it, it would've been 'terrorism'. 

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, Azeem said:

Speechless. Israel literally does insane inhumane shit which Dr. Gonzo has pointed out on a much bigger scale.

Your post again confirms the original post about the double standards of the West and shows the deep rooted belief in the Western mind (long before 9/11) including common folks like you that the epitome of a cartoonish evil has to be a Muslim i.e Trump shooting is a case of 'political violence' but if a Muslim did it, it would've been 'terrorism'. 

Nothing to do with an anti-Muslim agenda. There's absolutely no reason to recognize an undesired government that violates the human rights just because you already have recognized another one. Actually they should be thankful, since we help them to follow their religious beliefs, specifically Qran surah 5:51.

[Azeem]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Is stoning someone more unjust than an indiscriminate bombing campaign or the collective punishment of a people due to threats of terrorism? I say this as someone who has absolutely 0 love for the Taliban: I'm not sure their human rights violations come anywhere near Israel's. The Taliban will kill you for things like: you're the wrong flavour of Muslim and too Shia to be allowed to live or because you're the wrong type of ethnicity that's historically been living on that land for 1000s of years - but never in quite the same scope and scale of how Israel's gone about fighting their wars.

Capitol punishment by stoning is objectively a terrible thing. Bombing refugee camps and hospitals, imo, is also objectively terrible... and honestly, I think it's much worse. Beheading someone for being Shia, Persian/Tajik, like the Taliban do, is backwards and obviously wrong. So is collective punishment of a population due to the actions of a terror group hiding within them. And again, the scope and scale of the human rights abuses, when you compare them, are so much more deadly.

Moreover, there have been some cases of journalists or other folks including Westerners being taken captive by Taliban, but surprisingly they became quite pro-Taliban afterwards seeing some of the actual ground realities where Taliban were justified in their fight against foreign powers according to them, which the original post perfectly explains they have a far more legitimate claim to govern their lands than Israel even though both have taken through force.

This Australian man is recently one of them, Yvonne Ridley was another prominent women who was taken captive by them but has not been that critical of them ever since even supporting them on some cases. Then you have some US marines who also had similar views after being deployed there. 

Why ? are they all propagandist or psychos ? if it happened once ok but there have been multiple cases ?  or is it that Taliban while no doubt fanatics of their own are not that cartoonishly evil that Rucksack thinks is ridiculous to compare them to Israel that seems no less of a fanatic than them. 

 

On the contrary, many people who actually go see how Israel operates turn out to be virulently anti-Israel after seeing first hand what inhumane shit they do. Including this son of an IDF General who openly calls for ending Israel

and Illan Pappe, Israeli historian, who got his hands over Israeli archives and wrote the most detailed book on Israeli atrocities in Nakba and he too calls for Israel to end