The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Azeem]

1 minute ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Nothing to do with an anti-Muslim agenda. There's absolutely no reason to recognize an undesired government that violates the human rights just because you already have recognized another one.

You mentioned Saudi Arabia too. Explain to me how Israel is not comparable to Saudi ? 

[Rucksackfranzose]

4 minutes ago, Azeem said:

You mentioned Saudi Arabia too. Explain to me how Israel is not comparable to Saudi ? 

Israel is a country, with a government democratically elected by their citizens. Saudi Arabia is autocratically ruled by a monarch, who can't be held responsible for their deeds by their subjects. Granted not the only one in the world, yet I just used the first Muslim example that came to my mind.

[Azeem]

11 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Nothing to do with an anti-Muslim agenda. There's absolutely no reason to recognize an undesired government that violates the human rights just because you already have recognized another one. Actually they should be thankful, since we help them to follow their religious beliefs, specifically Qran surah 5:51.

If you look at that verse it says don't take Jews and Christians as your allies because they are allies of each other. That doesn't make sense if you look at history, different Christians empires have historically persecuted Jews for 1000s of years as mentioned before in this thread. So it seems factually incorrect, it's like saying don't take US-Russia as friends as they are friends of each other. 

But the other part of your post suggests it may not be completely wrong. Why has West recognized one human right abuser state but not the other ? is it bcz one is their friend and other is not ? 

[Rucksackfranzose]

18 minutes ago, Azeem said:

If you look at that verse it says don't take Jews and Christians as your allies because they are allies of each other. That doesn't make sense if you look at history, different Christians empires have historically persecuted Jews for 1000s of years as mentioned before in this thread. So it seems factually incorrect, it's like saying don't take US-Russia as friends as they are friends of each other. 

But the other part of your post suggests it may not be completely wrong. Why has West recognized one human right abuser state but not the other ? is it bcz one is their friend and other is not ? 

Can only speak for my nation: We recognized Israel, since the politics in the years 1933-1945, specially the deeds from "Nürnberger Rassegesetze" in 1935 on, led to an historic obligation to support the wish of Jews for creation of conditions such attrocities might never happen again. Be sure many Israeli would have been offended for it, if you suggested Germany were their friends, those then, some might be still, understandably. This kind of historic responsibility doesn't exist towards Afghans from a German point of view.

Edited July 17 by Rucksackfranzose

[Azeem]

6 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Can only speak for my nation: We recognized Israel, since the politics in the years 1933-1945, specially the deeds from "Nürnberger Rassegesetze" in 1935 on, led to an historic obligation to support the wish of Jews for creation of conditions such attrocities might never happen again. Be sure many Israeli would have been offended for it, if you suggested Germany were their friends, those then, some might be still, understandably. This kind of historic responsibility doesn't exist towards Afghans from a German point of view.

I've been seeing you make this point time to time that Germany has this responsibility towards Israel due to historical reasons i.e Holocaust.

Genuine question if that is the 'only' reason of supporting Israel why doesn't the same support is given to Namibia by Germany where Germany also committed a genocide  which is the first of its kind in the 20th century ? Germany only recognized it as a genocide in 2021 which begs to ask why that long ? and still hasn't agreed on any mechanism for compensating those communities which it has done in the case of Israel

or there are other reasons involved as well ?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/13/namibia-calls-for-reparations-talks-with-germany/

[Rucksackfranzose]

2 minutes ago, Azeem said:

I've been seeing you make this point time to time that Germany has this responsibility towards Israel due to historical reasons i.e Holocaust.

Genuine question if that is the 'only' reason of supporting Israel why doesn't the same support is given to Namibia by Germany where Germany also committed a genocide  which is the first of its kind in the 20th century ? Germany only recognized it as a genocide in 2021 which begs to ask why that long ? and still hasn't agreed on any mechanism for compensating those communities which it has done in the case of Israel

or there are other reasons involved as well ?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/03/13/namibia-calls-for-reparations-talks-with-germany/

Absolutely in support of reparations to Namibia. This being recognized that late has a lot to do with racist feeling of superiority over African autuchtone inhabitants that#s not unique with Germany. Doesn't it make less wrog, of course.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Azeem said:

Moreover, there have been some cases of journalists or other folks including Westerners being taken captive by Taliban, but surprisingly they became quite pro-Taliban afterwards seeing some of the actual ground realities where Taliban were justified in their fight against foreign powers according to them, which the original post perfectly explains they have a far more legitimate claim to govern their lands than Israel even though both have taken through force.

This Australian man is recently one of them, Yvonne Ridley was another prominent women who was taken captive by them but has not been that critical of them ever since even supporting them on some cases. Then you have some US marines who also had similar views after being deployed there. 

Why ? are they all propagandist or psychos ? if it happened once ok but there have been multiple cases ?  or is it that Taliban while no doubt fanatics of their own are not that cartoonishly evil that Rucksack thinks is ridiculous to compare them to Israel that seems no less of a fanatic than them. 

 

On the contrary, many people who actually go see how Israel operates turn out to be virulently anti-Israel after seeing first hand what inhumane shit they do. Including this son of an IDF General who openly calls for ending Israel

and Illan Pappe, Israeli historian, who got his hands over Israeli archives and wrote the most detailed book on Israeli atrocities in Nakba and he too calls for Israel to end

 

Mate, people unconditionally support Israel while watching footage of a soldier blowing a malnourished child’s head off. Israel has massive support, that’s why you see counter-protests and the rich and famous declare support. People with ties to Israel literally fly back into the country to volunteer, leaving family at home.

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/denver-man-idf-medic

Also don’t know about that chick because I’ve never heard of her but Timothy Weekes was always supporting the Taliban. That reads like some domestic abuse relationship.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101331834

The only thing we prove here is that people can and will support anything, and support of something isn’t indicative of its righteousness. Because if that were the case it wouldn’t exist all in the first place…

[Azeem]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

 

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/denver-man-idf-medic

Also don’t know about that chick because I’ve never heard of her but Timothy Weekes was always supporting the Taliban. That reads like some domestic abuse relationship.

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101331834

The only thing we prove here is that people can and will support anything, and support of something isn’t indicative of its righteousness. Because if that were the case it wouldn’t exist all in the first place…

Never talked about righteousness Taliban are fanatics no doubt, but question on comparing Israel and Taliban that it is ridiculous to compare Israel to them because Taliban are obviously more bad no ? Both have their set of supporters specially Taliban which many people in the West may be surprised to know doesn't change their reality

 

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Azeem said:

 

I know, I didn’t say that you did, nor was I comparing the two. I was just pointing out that support can and will happen regardless, it happens all the time, that is the celebration of the misery of others.
 

 

[Rucksackfranzose]

1 hour ago, Azeem said:

If you look at that verse it says don't take Jews and Christians as your allies because they are allies of each other. That doesn't make sense if you look at history, different Christians empires have historically persecuted Jews for 1000s of years as mentioned before in this thread. So it seems factually incorrect, it's like saying don't take US-Russia as friends as they are friends of each other. 

But the other part of your post suggests it may not be completely wrong. Why has West recognized one human right abuser state but not the other ? is it bcz one is their friend and other is not ? 

Something not mentioned, yet: I beg you to be specific here: How is having done a fault in the past a sensible reasoning for continuing committing this fault? At recognising Talinan regime because of recognizing Israel.

[Azeem]

13 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Something not mentioned, yet: I beg you to be specific here: How is having done a fault in the past a sensible reasoning for continuing committing this fault? At recognising Talinan regime because of recognizing Israel.

One can undo that fault by unrecognizing Israel acknowledging it was wrong, like countries have taken back their recognition in many cases.

But if one is not going to do that then it at least keep it consistent and recognize others too if they are more or less the same case as Israel.

Why is China not really 'that' hated globally as much as say US ? one reason is China is 'amoral' in its conduct. They just don't care, they recognize Israel and don't give two fs what Muslim countries think and also recognize Taliban and don't care what West thinks, they just care business. That is more appreciateable than hypocrisy for many which is 'immoral'.

[Azeem]

 

[6666]

Heard about that last week before the BBC covered it. The IDF terrorists genuinely are evil bastards.

[MUFC]

 

[Azeem]

ICJ has given its verdict that acknowledges pretty much everything about Israel that any person with a conscious already knows. 

Daily reminder: the issue of Palestine and Levant was also one of the reasons why League of Nations failed. According to League of Nations, in any Mandatory power arrangement the wishes of those being ruled by that Mandatory power must be of priority and upheld.

For this a commission was created to find and assert the wishes of the people of Levant who were to be ruled by British and French mandates.

This commission is called the King-Crane commission, headed by two American diplomats, it conducted surveys and interviews in the Levant from all communities. The commission gave the final report that a unified Arab state be created and ruled out the creation of a Jewish state, this commission also advocated for an Armenian state to be created. 

But Britain and France gave two fucks about this commission and divided the ME between them. This violation of international law was one of the first events why League of Nations never really took off.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King–Crane_Commission

Now we will again see flagrant violations of international institutions  which will most probably lead to same events that happened after League of Nations went kaput. 

 

[6666]

IDF now getting into it more with the Houthis in Yemen after they struck Tel Aviv and unfortunately only killed one former IDF sniper. Unfortunately it's not a fight where Israel ends up losing. That would require the more bigger nations around Israel to join in but unfortunately those leaders are just puppets for the US. Either way, hope as many IDF terrorists get taken out as possible.

[OrangeKhrush]

Less than 24 hours after a drone strike the predicted strike on Yemen's Oil and Power infrastructure was carried out.  Yemen is heavily reliant on selling Oil and Electricity so you strike the source of income,  similar to Ukraine striking Russian oil and gas facilities. 

The damage is total,  the oil reserves are still burning.   

[6666]

Israel bombed another school killing more than 30 and injuring plenty more.

Israel then blames Hezbollah for a bomb in the Golan Heights (another area they're occupying) that killed 15 kids. Which makes no sense as it's not lives that Israel cares about and no reason for Hezbollah to target that area. It is right out of the Israel handbook to intentionally kill kids and to best make themselves look like victims to justify attacks, this time on Lebanon. Something that they've already been doing but it seems like Israel wants to ramp up the attacks on Lebanon.

[6666]

A lot of commotion in Israel about soldiers getting arrested for raping a prisoner. People actually rioting to have them freed and politicians debating if it's okay to rape prisoners.

Israel is a failed experiment.

[6666]

Israel bombed a populated area in Beirut to intentionally kill as many civilians as possible. Their plan to kill people and occupy more land is now expanding.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I feel bad for Lebanese people. It's basically a failed state where their own military pales in comparison to Hezbollah who basically just do whatever they want... and they're now being pulled into a war with Israel by Hezbollah. Israel's last war was devastating for Lebanon, even though from Hezbollah's perspective it was arguably a victory (in reality, more of a stalemate).

[Dr. Gonzo]

https://apnews.com/article/30968a7acb31cd8b259de9650014b779
 

Hamas leader killed in Tehran. If it was a strike from Israel in Iran’s capital, this might mean a regional war is inevitable.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

https://apnews.com/article/30968a7acb31cd8b259de9650014b779
 

Hamas leader killed in Tehran. If it was a strike from Israel in Iran’s capital, this might mean a regional war is inevitable.

Some reports are saying an air strike but that would be easy to ascertain, details are sketchy at this point.   It could be an internal assassination due to his willingness to push peace talks

[Dr. Gonzo]

8 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Some reports are saying an air strike but that would be easy to ascertain, details are sketchy at this point.   It could be an internal assassination due to his willingness to push peace talks

It was an air strike, so probably not an internal assassination.

Weird strategy by Israel to think a ceasefire might hold by killing the guy doing the ceasefire negotiations. Almost like they don’t actually want the hostages back or a ceasefire.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It was an air strike, so probably not an internal assassination.

Weird strategy by Israel to think a ceasefire might hold by killing the guy doing the ceasefire negotiations. Almost like they don’t actually want the hostages back or a ceasefire.

I don't think anything was close and the attack on Tel Aviv and Majdal Sham ended any chance of fast tracking that process.

Mohammed Deif and Hayineh killed,  that leaves Sinwar who is definitely hiding. 

The US and UAE supported by Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan want a post war Palestine under administration of the UAE and US until a stable government can be formed and the rebuilding of infrastructure is complete.   I can support that peace accord.   Meanwhile Hamas and Fatah ran off to China to agree to a unity government,   there is no way in hell that ever gets accepted.   

When Chris Cuomo is not reading scripted narrative he actually can be sensible.