The Artful Dodger Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 18 hours ago, 6666 said: Having a go at Israel isn't the same as having a go at Jews. From what I've seen on that subject he hasn't specifically said anything negative about Jews (unless I've missed something). I'm actually interested in knowing what you think was said that's worthy of time behind bars... Even criticising certain aspects and beliefs of a religion, whatever the religion, is fair game and isn't bigoted (unless you suggest that anyone that follows that specific religion is automatically evil) so I have no idea how criticising a country becomes unacceptable. The post about relocating Israel in the USA has strong anti-Semitic undertones, even if people argue it isn't. The idea of Jews running the world, and the consequently the USA, is an age old conspiracy theory and I'd be surprised anyone of a reasonable intelligence isn't aware of that. Naz Shah was suspended for it and I think should have been sacked as an MP personally but there we are. Certainly not worthy of imprisonment but I have serious doubts about people's excuses behind it. There are a lot of slanders around anti-Semitism, especially the accusations against Corbyn personally, but there many on the left who excuse Islamic anti-Semitism* and pander to it at times. There's no place for it and it should be called out wherever it is found. FWIW, the most virulent and hateful anti-Semitism has its roots in Europe and the Islamic world has arguably a greater history of good relations with Jews than anywhere else in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 No doubt there are Anti-Semetic people around, but I think the world has been programmed to think anything said about Jews is classed as being anti-semetic. No doubt there are anti-semetic people, but people receive this label for criticizing the Israeli government. Many people who are critical of the Zionist regime have no problem at all with Orthodox Jews, who are the nicest people you can meet, who themselves are against Israel and protest about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 20 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: He said something that's more anti-Israel than anti-Semitic, tbh. His comment on abused women was more appalling imho. That they should be aware there are predators out there and the more probative the dress the more they will stand out? That seems a bit of a storm in a teacup similar to Biden coming under fire for saying people need to come together to find common ground and citing his example working with a racist old Southern Congressman back in the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Harry said: That they should be aware there are predators out there and the more probative the dress the more they will stand out? That seems a bit of a storm in a teacup similar to Biden coming under fire for saying people need to come together to find common ground and citing his example working with a racist old Southern Congressman back in the day... Yeah blaming rape victims instead of the rapists is some stupid shite. Biden’s statements were pretty tone deaf to have been made on a day commemorating the freedom of American slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, MUFC said: No doubt there are Anti-Semetic people around, but I think the world has been programmed to think anything said about Jews is classed as being anti-semetic. No doubt there are anti-semetic people, but people receive this label for criticizing the Israeli government. Many people who are critical of the Zionist regime have no problem at all with Orthodox Jews, who are the nicest people you can meet, who themselves are against Israel and protest about it. Imo the inability to criticise Israel is one of the first snowflake issues of them all, it predates the existence of snowflakes or the use of the term itself.... You can understand why there is such sensitivity there though given the history. But racism is everywhere now and in most pockets of western democracies the criticism of Israel is similar to that of criticism of western powers such as the US which is normally for being the perceived aggressors in most conflicts. It's actually scary how much influence Israel seems to wield in world affairs. From the moment the British government committed to Lord Rothschild their support for a Jewish state to the point that even today so many decades on there seems to be a perpetual sense of western countries acting out of obligation to Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Sajid Javid has been thrown over the top rope and both feet have touched the floor. The dream of the brown underdog wanting to lead the racists will not happen. Boris Johnson, Jeremy Hunt & Michael Gove are the final three. Who will book their place at the granddaddy of them all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Yeah blaming rape victims instead of the rapists is some stupid shite. Biden’s statements were pretty tone deaf to have been made on a day commemorating the freedom of American slaves. Blaming them? That's a narrative to put around it mate. The quotes I read seemed to be some practical tips to make oneself less at risk of being spotted and preyed upon given that like it or not there are bad people out there. There may be comments I didn't see but the tone of the comments I read sounded balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Being anti-Israeli governments and stuff like this Netanyahu isn't anti-semitism, but being anti-Israel as a state is indeed anti-semitism. It's about the content, the sub-plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, 6666 said: Sajid Javid has been thrown over the top rope and both feet have touched the floor. The dream of the brown underdog wanting to lead the racists will not happen. Boris Johnson, Jeremy Hunt & Michael Gove are the final three. Who will book their place at the granddaddy of them all? Have spoken to white people who call Boris Johnson a racist twit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Get your eyeball bleach ready: this is perhaps the saddest thing Michael Gove has done in his life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 The Tories really are a total joke. A bunch of jesters but with that sinister part to their whole present ethos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Oh SirBalon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, SirBalon said: Being anti-Israeli governments and stuff like this Netanyahu isn't anti-semitism, but being anti-Israel as a state is indeed anti-semitism. It's about the content, the sub-plot. Don't think I even agree with that. Unless your motivation for criticising Israel is because they're a Jewish country then it's the same as criticising any other country for reasons that don't have to do with what the main religion in that country is. And even then I don't think there's anything wrong with criticising any religious influence on a country's government. I don't see why Israel has to be treated as a special case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 47 minutes ago, 6666 said: Don't think I even agree with that. Unless your motivation for criticising Israel is because they're a Jewish country then it's the same as criticising any other country for reasons that don't have to do with what the main religion in that country is. And even then I don't think there's anything wrong with criticising any religious influence on a country's government. I don't see why Israel has to be treated as a special case. I have no idea what you've understood from my post but your comment certainly has no resemblance in any way whatsoever to what I was talking about. Did I bring religion into what the state of Israel may or maybnot represent for those with an agenda? Not at all and actually that's where I'm coming from because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the state of Israel existing and that for a good number is a problem. What I was saying or trying to put across, is that there's nothing wrong with criticising a particular ideology being implemented in said country. Hell, I'm constantly ciritcising (and justifiably so) the Government we have in the UK at the moment for a multitude of reasons which right now can be assimilated to nations nationalism and we all know what that's caused in relatively recent history. With that I am not criticising "Englishness". It's not very difficult to ascertain when someone has problems with Jewish people and Jidaism in general. The only moment it becomes a chore is with peole like Uncle Jezza where he has a some sort of defence shield with the blatant evidence that he is anti-Israel and thay alone is anti-semitism, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I have no idea what you've understood from my post but your comment certainly has no resemblance in any way whatsoever to what I was talking about. Did I bring religion into what the state of Israel may or maybnot represent for those with an agenda? Not at all and actually that's where I'm coming from because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the state of Israel existing and that for a good number is a problem. What I was saying or trying to put across, is that there's nothing wrong with criticising a particular ideology being implemented in said country. Hell, I'm constantly ciritcising (and justifiably so) the Government we have in the UK at the moment for a multitude of reasons which right now can be assimilated to nations nationalism and we all know what that's caused in relatively recent history. With that I am not criticising "Englishness". It's not very difficult to ascertain when someone has problems with Jewish people and Jidaism in general. The only moment it becomes a chore is with peole like Uncle Jezza where he has a some sort of defence shield with the blatant evidence that he is anti-Israel and thay alone is anti-semitism, Not gonna lie, I have no idea about what your definition of anti-semitism is. I am confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, 6666 said: Not gonna lie, I have no idea about what your definition of anti-semitism is. I am confused... If your gripe is with the existence of the state of Israel, then that in itself is anti-semitism. Simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, SirBalon said: If your gripe is with the existence of the state of Israel, then that in itself is anti-semitism. Simple... Not that I have an issue with the existence of Israel but that to me is ridiculous. Why would it be any different to having an issue with any other country existing..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, 6666 said: Not that I have an issue with the existence of Israel but that to me is ridiculous. Why would it be any different to having an issue with any other country existing..? I'll leave that to you to explain... Choose an existing sovereign nation and try legitimising a reason for it not existing without it having connotations to the dominating ideological culture living within it. Plus, let's not beat about the bush... Israel is an exclusive case I'm sure you will agree because you're an intelligent guy, and it's whole history since it's creation post WWII has mainly been one about Judaism being awarded something that for quite a number shouldn't have been. I've stated many times on this and the previous forum that I'm all for Palestine being made an official state and totally against Israeli settlements ever since Operation Litani in 1978. Israel is a sovereign nation that should be respected in it's totallity and so should Palestinian rights to their own nation. Mine is a geographical issue and how a rotten ideology that has nothing to do with religion is invading and shackling another's rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 27 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I'll leave that to you to explain... Choose an existing sovereign nation and try legitimising a reason for it not existing without it having connotations to the dominating ideological culture living within it. Plus, let's not beat about the bush... Israel is an exclusive case I'm sure you will agree because you're an intelligent guy, and it's whole history since it's creation post WWII has mainly been one about Judaism being awarded something that for quite a number shouldn't have been. I've stated many times on this and the previous forum that I'm all for Palestine being made an official state and totally against Israeli settlements ever since Operation Litani in 1978. Israel is a sovereign nation that should be respected in it's totallity and so should Palestinian rights to their own nation. Mine is a geographical issue and how a rotten ideology that has nothing to do with religion is invading and shackling another's rights. I agree with you that Israel and Palestine both being legitimate states is the only way to move forward and I also agree with you that it's more of an issue over land rather than religion. The term "anti-semitism" however is attached to a hatred for Jews which is why I don't think that the term "anti-semitism" should be used when the discussion is either about geography or the actions of a government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Oh Yasser Afafat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 PM Boris then he will trash Hunt, most Tories think he’s Jeremy Cunt to. Why I don’t understand is when it’s so obviously going to be a destruction of Hunt by the Conservative membership that we’re carrying on, why doesn’t he take a deal from Boris withdraw and we’re not wasting a month and Boris can plan for Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, 6666 said: I agree with you that Israel and Palestine both being legitimate states is the only way to move forward and I also agree with you that it's more of an issue over land rather than religion. The term "anti-semitism" however is attached to a hatred for Jews which is why I don't think that the term "anti-semitism" should be used when the discussion is either about geography or the actions of a government. I can agree with this. Antisemitism is a racist term indicative of hostility to Jews. It should be to confused and applied to people such as those back in the mid20th century that felt it was not right to move a bunch of displaced persons in on someone else's land and declare a country. I'm not one of those people by the way but I wouldn't suggest its antisemitic to have those views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I know we show passion within posts, but saying it 5 times is crazy lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Fuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just now, Harry said: Fuck Maybe you're horny thats why lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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