Should Religion Stop LGBT Lessons in School?

[Eco]

10 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I agree with this. 

I think we can both agree that we have ZERO desire to speak of sexuality with our kids before secondary school. 

[Stan]

Isn't 10/11 the beginning of secondary school here in UK anyway?

[Eco]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

Isn't 10/11 the beginning of secondary school here in UK anyway?

It's 14 here in the States. 

[Machado]

On 27/05/2019 at 15:17, Smiley Culture said:

Let em teach it, it’s got to be more useful than Pythagoras’ Theory.

I trust the state to hire qualified professionals to teach my children about the Pythagoras Theorem but when it comes to morals and societal behaviour I may think parents are best placed to decide what's best for their children as the state fails to take into account children's different personalities and upbringing when projecting these classes. I don't see how they could work.

 

In my opinion what we can do is focus more on teaching children to respect everyone equally, to honour everyone's feelings no matter their position in life. If we can put this idea of philanthropic drive, children will learn about loving and accepting all, be it LGBT or else, and we won't need LGBT classes from which most religious parents will pull their children out off.

[SirBalon]

On 27/05/2019 at 16:02, Azeem said:

The whole World is going authoritarian, in Denmark probably they have taken kids from their parents more like kidnapped them who refused to send their kids to these classes.

I’m going to pull you up on a number of things you have said and which in my view are the main problem.

Authoritarian is an issue parents that pull their children put of literally teaching them of the existence of LGBT people. In many cultures and religions it isn’t spoken about so you can’t rely on tolerance being taught from parents for which the state have made a great decision with this.

10 hours ago, Azeem said:

It probably won't be like simply kids learning about different sex as you put it like they learn about different species in science classes rather they are gonna be teaching 11/10 years old to understand his/her sexuality at an age that is even non-existent at that time at the hands of people that aren't even qualified as a teacher let alone teaching sexuality which in result would be confusing these kids.

No they’re not! They’re teaching kids about the existence of LGBT people alone so as to understand they are normal and live amongst those of us that are not LGBT.

9 hours ago, Azeem said:

That will happen, they will be doing skit and plays at schools where the kid struggles with his sexuality etc like that Queer kid stuff on YouTube

And besides if a 10 year old kid asks you while teaching homosexuality that Mr.Danny i think I'm also gay, what will be you're response ? Are you qualified enough to handle that or majority of the people that will be teaching these subjects ?

 

Very doubtful that would happen but if it did you would expect that if the teacher in question isn’t qualified to handle that there and then in front of the class, then the teacher will after class direct the pupil to who can. Another great reason to have these lessons.

9 hours ago, Azeem said:

The idea of an 10-11 year old talking about whether he/she is hetro or homo sexual is robbing the child of his innocence and throwing the child in the complex world of adulthood.

And besides the reservations i mentioned in my first post are there for a lot of parents. 

Being homosexual isn’t a disease you are afflicted with in adulthood. It is how you are born!

7 hours ago, Azeem said:

 

I already touched on this but being constant so as to show you where you have issues.

It is a PUBLIC LIBRARY and those parents in that video have decided to go to that library when the drag queen was there doing that exercise. Nothing whatsoever to do with school and out of context because of that question that was asked and offended you.

7 hours ago, Azeem said:

The reason i searched it because you said its an accusation that sexualizaton is being forced on kids. 

Whats the point to say ' Who wants to be drag queen when they grow up ? to a toddler if no one is teaching to be homosexual or transsexual. 

As Artful Dodger said, lets teach them about Islam/Hinduism/Christianity and ask little kids ' Who wants to be a Muslim/Hindu/Christian when they grow up,  surely no one will find that okay. 

Artful Dodger is totally correct. Not everyone is religious and if knowledge of what different religions are are taught then the same goes for LGBT people.

5 hours ago, Azeem said:

Yeah these religious arguments I'm not gonna discuss with you because its the same way if i say to you that there are people who do exist that wear burqas etc and their is nothing mysgonistic about it etc but that won't change you're view that its all backward, and you won't let you're kid being taught that at school that its ok.

My whole point was that there will be over sexualization of the children and these kids will not be merely being taught that it exists their sexuality will be influenced anyone denying it I'm done with.

Yes it IS only teaching them of the existence of LGBT people and how they are like those that aren’t LGBT.

4 hours ago, Azeem said:

I explained this in my first post it won't be like a science class telling kids about different species or a history class. If its really about teaching different sexes exist than as Artful Dodger said a sex education class in secondary school is suitable for it. Doing that Queer kid stuff and Drag queen with toddlers is unacceptable for me. 

And the act of homosexuality itself doesn't mean being gay. How many people molest childs and even youngmen yet they are married ? Are they homosexual No than why do they do it. Who knows my kid does such an act with someone out of curiosity after being exposed to such things at an immature age. 

This is extreme! How can you compare or even want to include paedophiles in this debate about LGBT?

I know why you did that and that’s where it’s not your fault. But it does exempt you from having a public opinion in my view if that is how you perceive homosexuality and everything surrounding it.

I’m very surprised nobody’s actually pulled you up on that comment. It’s awful!

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, Machado said:

I trust the state to hire qualified professionals to teach my children about the Pythagoras Theorem but when it comes to morals and societal behaviour I may think parents are best placed to decide what's best for their children as the state fails to take into account children's different personalities and upbringing when projecting these classes. I don't see how they could work.

 

In my opinion what we can do is focus more on teaching children to respect everyone equally, to honour everyone's feelings no matter their position in life. If we can put this idea of philanthropic drive, children will learn about loving and accepting all, be it LGBT or else, and we won't need LGBT classes from which most religious parents will pull their children out off.

Do you expect an Opus Dei to teach their child about tolerance where LGBT people are concerned mate?

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

 

This is extreme! How can you compare or even want to include paedophiles in this debate about LGBT?

I know why you did that and that’s where it’s not your fault. But it does exempt you from having a public opinion in my view if that is how you perceive homosexuality and everything surrounding it.

I’m very surprised nobody’s actually pulled you up on that comment. It’s awful!

Erm, I did?

[SirBalon]

20 minutes ago, Stan said:

Erm, I did?

On that bit? Oh, must’ve missed that then mate. Because it’s a terrible thing to say.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

On that bit? Oh, must’ve missed that then mate. Because it’s a terrible thing to say.

Yeah, although not as in much detail as yourself. Just questioned it.

https://talkfootball365.com/topic/8460-should-religion-stop-lgbt-lessons-in-school/?do=findComment&comment=289937

[Beelzebub]

32 minutes ago, Stan said:

Erm, I did?

And i explained that as well i wasn't comparing gays with paedophilia i was answering that doing homosexual act itself isn't something limited only to a single sexual orientation. As i said sexuality is a spectrum not single identity you have many straight people at some point doing homosexual acts, gay people doing heterosexual acts at some point.

[Dr. Gonzo]

What the hell are LGBT lessons? Are kids now being instructed on how to properly be homosexual? I sort of doubt that's going on there.

Education should always trump religion though. Mixing religion and education is, generally speaking, a bad idea in my books. But I've been pretty clear on my views on religion here in the past - it's toxic to human society and imposing religious beliefs on children is fucked up. Nobody should be believing in the ancient fairy tales people told themselves to explain the world they lived in, because now we know fucking better. And anyone still getting their moral compass from religion, rather than just by just being a fucking adult and understanding the difference between right and wrong, is a fucking fool who probably doesn't actually have any moral compass.

But also generally speaking, I don't think kids should be getting any sort of education on sexual orientation when they're too young to have developed sexual feelings in the first place. That just seems weird and encourages sexualising children.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Azeem said:

And i explained that as well i wasn't comparing gays with paedophilia i was answering that doing homosexual act itself isn't something limited only to a single sexual orientation. As i said sexuality is a spectrum not single identity you have many straight people at some point doing homosexual acts, gay people doing heterosexual acts at some point.

I just don't understand the premise of teaching LGBT stuff in schools for purely education purposes and then suddenly there's the premise you've introduced about gay or straight people committing paedophilic acts? 

Homosexuals can commit heterosexual acts and vice versa. But where does child sexual abuse come in to it?

[Beelzebub]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

I just don't understand the premise of teaching LGBT stuff in schools for purely education purposes and then suddenly there's the premise you've introduced about gay or straight people committing paedophilic acts? 

Because the argument was thrown that if you aren't gay than you can't do homosexual acts.

[Beelzebub]

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But also generally speaking, I don't think kids should be getting any sort of education on sexual orientation when they're too young to have developed sexual feelings in the first place. That just seems weird and encourages sexualising children.

This. There is no way at toddler level giving sexuality related classes level will only inform them about that different sexual orientations exist it will impact their own understanding of their sexuality at an age when it probably doesn't that much exists.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Azeem said:

Because the argument was thrown that if you aren't gay than you can't do homosexual acts.

Again, where's the link to paedophilia and why does that have to be mentioned?

 

[Beelzebub]

Just now, Stan said:

Again, where's the link to paedophilia and why does that have to be mentioned?

 

Paedophilia doesn't count as an act of homosexual behavior ? Not putting them as equal to gays mind you. 

[SirBalon]

11 minutes ago, Azeem said:

This. There is no way at toddler level giving sexuality related classes level will only inform them about that different sexual orientations exist it will impact their own understanding of their sexuality at an age when it probably doesn't that much exists.

The toddler thing in the public library is about the toddler sensing and witnessing his or her parents acting normally amongst LGBT people and that they are a part of society. That it’s normal. 

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Azeem said:

Paedophilia doesn't count as an act of homosexual behavior ? Not putting them as equal to gays mind you. 

Homosexuals don’t need to be categorised at all and that’s what all of this is about. They are just more people, people, people.... PEOPLE!

[Machado]

57 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Do you expect an Opus Dei to teach their child about tolerance where LGBT people are concerned mate?

That's why these classes won't be more than smoke.

If Islam is openly against homosexuality, I expect a Muslim parent to withdraw their children from LGBT classes, and that is ermm... okay? The answer depends on whether you believe children belong to the state or to their parents which is what this topic really is about.

Education is different than ideals. Should schools try to impose one way of thinking, acting, and being, onto all children? It's not hard to see where Azeem comes from with his authoritarian argument.

[Eco]

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, José said:

Yet the LGBT movement does exactly that, categorize them. It's not enough for them to have the freedom of choosing whatever lifestyle they want, the problem I have is they self categorize them self's and expect us to fully accept their ways..

Freedom versus social acceptance is not the same. 

Why does their existence bother you? 

[Beelzebub]

6 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

The toddler thing in the public library is about the toddler sensing and witnessing his or her parents acting normally amongst LGBT people and that they are a part of society. That it’s normal. 

So did i saw my parents acting normally towards transgenders but i don't think i ever needed to be taught these things at School at when i was 6-7 years old when i probably didn't even cared about my own sexuality. 

[Beelzebub]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Homosexuals don’t need to be categorised at all and that’s what all of this is about. They are just more people, people, people.... PEOPLE!

I'm not talking about categorizing im talking about that young children should not be exposed to sexual content until an appropriate age whether homo or heterosexual 

[Beelzebub]

16 minutes ago, Machado said:

That's why these classes won't be more than smoke.

If Islam is openly against homosexuality, I expect a Muslim parent to withdraw their children from LGBT classes, and that is ermm... okay? The answer depends on whether you believe children belong to the state or to their parents which is what this topic really is about.

Education is different than ideals. Should schools try to impose one way of thinking, acting, and being, onto all children? It's not hard to see where Azeem comes from with his authoritarian argument.

Muslims can f*** off for me if the state imposes these things at secondary school they decided to live there and should follow the rules of their adopted country. My only concern is the age group that is on discussion here

[Eco]

6 minutes ago, Azeem said:

I'm not talking about categorizing im talking about that young children should not be exposed to sexual content until an appropriate age whether homo or heterosexual 

I don't think  anyone has disagreed with you on this point. 

It seems like we are all in agreement that was DOES need to be taught from an early age, is acceptance of all people (race, color, religion, language), and leave all of the sexuality for an appropriate age.