Should Religion Stop LGBT Lessons in School?

[Toinho]

7 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Every school teaches some RE. It's also very factual and in the UK at least its absolute taboo for teachers to teach or tell kids to follow a certain religion, they simply get taught the key traditions and beliefs of each major religion. 

Obviously if you go to a specific faith school that's different.

I’ve never been to a government primary school that’s taught any religion until the one I am at now. Once a fortnight two ladies from one of the local churches come in and somehow try link a vague value to a game and a worksheet. It was requested by the school council I believe and because we are in a small country town that’s what we do. I don’t have any problem except I had to go to the principal last year when one lady came in on Halloween and called it an evil day and insinuated such to the students. 

[MUFC]

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/celebs-tv/gay-dog-animals-channel-4-2901813

[MUFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48509969

[6666]

RE was a case of "this is the idea of god/s for people from this religion, this is their idea of the devil, this is what they traditionally wear, remember it and write it down". Wasn't presented as anything more than that.

[MUFC]

20 minutes ago, 6666 said:

RE was a case of "this is the idea of god/s for people from this religion, this is their idea of the devil, this is what they traditionally wear, remember it and write it down". Wasn't presented as anything more than that.

My RE teacher had a tash.

[SirBalon]

Hopefully those in need will read. Too many people do billboard reading these days and then they know things.

 

[Stan]

Properly upset me, that story. So much wrongdoing in there. Really feel sorry for the women. They shouldn't have to suffer just because some chauvinistic prick tells them to do something then he gets angry when they don't do it. Regardless of the fact he's sexualising them and it's just downright cuntish behaviour. 

[Stan]

Thankfully 4 arrests have been made following the attack. 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Horrible attack but not out of keeping with our society in general. These lessons, as much as I support them, aren't going to make much of a difference really.

[Toinho]

4 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Hopefully those in need will read. Too many people do billboard reading these days and then they know things.

 

That’s fucking horrible. You are not a man if you hit a woman. Scum cunts 

[SirBalon]

9 minutes ago, Toinho said:

That’s fucking horrible. You are not a man if you hit a woman. Scum cunts 

Hopefully they'll go to prison for a decent amount of time but what would be the best thing is for their identities to be made public so that future employers know what scumbags they will be contemplating taking on board.

[Toinho]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Hopefully they'll go to prison for a decent amount of time but what would be the best thing is for their identities to be made public so that future employers know what scumbags they will be contemplating taking on board.

Agreed completely 

[Inverted]

Well with their record they'll be stuck on minimum wage for the best part of their lives anyway, or on the dole. 

Once kids hit the 15-16 point then yeah obviously a school lesson isn't going to change anything, but creating a culture of respect and awareness can be done from a young age. And the problem goes beyond one young group of violent teens - every generation in England has a massive section of homophobic, macho degenerates, and that can only be tackled at the widest level by education. 

13 years of school, and I learned all about monotheism and polytheism, about the Hajj, and Siddhartha Buddha, and the Hindu creation myth. 

Never got spoken to about gay people. 

If there's time to teach young kids about religion and obscure superstitons, there's time to tell them that some people are born attracted to the opposite or to both sexes and there's nothing wrong with them. 

[The Artful Dodger]

28 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Well with their record they'll be stuck on minimum wage for the best part of their lives anyway, or on the dole. 

Once kids hit the 15-16 point then yeah obviously a school lesson isn't going to change anything, but creating a culture of respect and awareness can be done from a young age. And the problem goes beyond one young group of violent teens - every generation in England has a massive section of homophobic, macho degenerates, and that can only be tackled at the widest level by education. 

13 years of school, and I learned all about monotheism and polytheism, about the Hajj, and Siddhartha Buddha, and the Hindu creation myth. 

Never got spoken to about gay people. 

If there's time to teach young kids about religion and obscure superstitons, there's time to tell them that some people are born attracted to the opposite or to both sexes and there's nothing wrong with them. 

School lessons aren't going to change much, it's about our culture. There's so much wrong with it at a fundamental level that I fear it just needs to be completely obliterated so we can start again.

[SirBalon]

10 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

School lessons aren't going to change much, it's about our culture. There's so much wrong with it at a fundamental level that I fear it just needs to be completely obliterated so we can start again.

Isn't it the way to obtain advancement in ethics to undermine ancient erroneous details within "culture" to teach new generations the correct path?

Enlightenment and exposure to reality while careful guidance manipulates what has been bastardised from nasty traditions. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Isn't it the way to obtain advancement in ethics to undermine ancient erroneous details within "culture" to teach new generations the correct path?

Enlightenment and exposure to reality while careful guidance manipulates what has been bastardised from nasty traditions. 

There's nothing ancient about our appalling culture, in fact we are getting wore. The worship of ourselves is becomin ever prevalent by the day, the worship of money too. I think we're nearing the end, I think we're at  Noah's ark type scenario. Human beings are absolutely awful and our extinction would be the best thing for the planet.

[SirBalon]

5 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

There's nothing ancient about our appalling culture, in fact we are getting wore. The worship of ourselves is becomin ever prevalent by the day, the worship of money too. I think we're nearing the end, I think we're at  Noah's ark type scenario. Human beings are absolutely awful and our extinction would be the best thing for the planet.

It does seem that way and very difficult to argue against.

[Inverted]

40 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

School lessons aren't going to change much, it's about our culture. There's so much wrong with it at a fundamental level that I fear it just needs to be completely obliterated so we can start again.

Schooling is a part of culture. I'm not saying it's a complete solution but it's basically the only thing that can actually be done. 

[RandoEFC+]

There are three main groups of kids for me, although in reality they land somewhere on a spectrum here. 

At one end of the spectrum you've got kids whose parents really make sure they raise them well who will generally grow up with good values and morals even if they weren't to get any of that as part of their education.

On the other end of the spectrum you have a small group of kids who sadly grow up in a household where they are constantly exposed to bigoted views, from parents, older siblings, grandparents, other carers. In likelihood, you aren't going to convert these kids by spending an hour a week trying to teach them to respect the differences of other people.

Between them, you've got kids from families where their parents, to various extents, are either uncomfortable discussing equality and lifestyle/belief differences with their kids, don't know how to broach the subject, aren't really bothered about it or simply don't realise the importance of it. These are the ones you can mould into respectful citizens by having these conversations with them from an early age, when they are impressionable, and I don't mean that in a way where you're manipulating them or taking advantage of them being impressionable which is the usual context in which that word is used. Those middle kids who could go either way are the ones you need to try and catch because if you leave them to float then one day they'll either start basing their opinions on the news which can't be trusted, or worse come across bigoted views on social media, which unfortunately are pretty widespread.

You can't change all of society by covering this stuff in schools but you can catch a decent proportion of kids that could go either way by attempting to teach them morals and acceptance as a part of their education. 

[SirBalon]

13 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

There are three main groups of kids for me, although in reality they land somewhere on a spectrum here. 

At one end of the spectrum you've got kids whose parents really make sure they raise them well who will generally grow up with good values and morals even if they weren't to get any of that as part of their education.

On the other end of the spectrum you have a small group of kids who sadly grow up in a household where they are constantly exposed to bigoted views, from parents, older siblings, grandparents, other carers. In likelihood, you aren't going to convert these kids by spending an hour a week trying to teach them to respect the differences of other people.

Between them, you've got kids from families where their parents, to various extents, are either uncomfortable discussing equality and lifestyle/belief differences with their kids, don't know how to broach the subject, aren't really bothered about it or simply don't realise the importance of it. These are the ones you can mould into respectful citizens by having these conversations with them from an early age, when they are impressionable, and I don't mean that in a way where you're manipulating them or taking advantage of them being impressionable which is the usual context in which that word is used. Those middle kids who could go either way are the ones you need to try and catch because if you leave them to float then one day they'll either start basing their opinions on the news which can't be trusted, or worse come across bigoted views on social media, which unfortunately are pretty widespread.

You can't change all of society by covering this stuff in schools but you can catch a decent proportion of kids that could go either way by attempting to teach them morals and acceptance as a part of their education. 

Are you calling out a class issue or that money solves the problem?

[RandoEFC+]

8 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Are you calling out a class issue or that money solves the problem?

I don't think that at all actually. It's about individual beliefs. You can get bigoted views from upper class families who are a bit snobby and look down on people that are different from them, or you can get bigoted views from angry, bitter low earners who blame everyone that's different to them for their low quality of life.

I'm sure there are some trends between class and likelihood to be more or less tolerant of others in your views but I don't have the knowledge to call those out.

[SirBalon]

29 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I don't think that at all actually. It's about individual beliefs. You can get bigoted views from upper class families who are a bit snobby and look down on people that are different from them, or you can get bigoted views from angry, bitter low earners who blame everyone that's different to them for their low quality of life.

I'm sure there are some trends between class and likelihood to be more or less tolerant of others in your views but I don't have the knowledge to call those out.

In my view demographics have a lot to do with this and class plays a major role too. The more money you have the more likely you will send your children to be well educated but as you say, the rich and higher classes can be bigoted although with their patrician sounding accents they'll get away with it. Look at our current state where a posh wally can tell a poor grumpy soul that his issues are down to the establishment and foreigners.

[The Artful Dodger]

Privately educated people are usually very unpleasant, only anecdotal and shaded by my own prejudice, but I stand by it all the same.

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, SirBalon said:

In my view demographics have a lot to do with this and class plays a major role too. The more money you have the more likely you will send your children to be well educated but as you say, the rich and higher clases can be bigoted although with their patrician slunding accents they'll get away with it. Look at our current state where a posh wally can tell a poor grumpy soul that his issues are down to the establishment and foreigners.

I think the issue here isn't whether you get sent to a good school or not. You're just as likely to find teachers who are desperate to instil their students with positive beliefs in a rough, inner-city school as you are at a privately funded school or boarding school. This is a matter of a national decision I think, to make LGBT education of some form compulsory in schools that pertain to the national curriculum. If that does happen, and I think it will pretty soon, then people from any class should have the same access to this aspect of education. In fact, those that are sent off to boarding schools which often have a bit more independence over what they teach and might not always fully pertain to the national curriculum, might be the ones who aren't exposed to this stuff as a part of their education.

[MUFC]