The Student Loan Crisis

[Mel81x+]

3 hours ago, Eco said:

 My wife's cousin though went to a private college, Northwestern, for engineering, graduated in 6 years with his undergrad and masters, and owes a whopping $500k. Luckliy for him, he started his own company with some college roommates, and they now own a 1/2 billion dollar company that continues to grow. I'm honestly not sure what he would have done if he hadn't hit it big with their company. 

I sometime wonder if that's the catalyst to do the kinds of things that Entrepreneurs do. Got a bucketload of loan debt and you have to find a way to get rid of it or you're screwed for life. I know its not an indicative of the masses but I imagine its certainly a reason to get started with a business.

[Rucksackfranzose]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

€50 a year?!? 

You should take a look at the UK’s prices.

There is a reason the university attender rate is high in Germany, Actually paid 90 a year, but 40 Euro was for the optional  "Semesterticket" with which I could use public transport for free a year. Was in the 90's though, the tuition fee nowadays might be a little more.

[nudge]

Just now, SirBalon said:

€50 a year?!? 

You should take a look at the UK’s prices.

That's why the whole concept is so alien to us (those from countries with more or less free higher education). I started uni about 15 years ago and so many things changed since then but at the time, there was no tuition fee, we got state stipends for good marks, student housing was very affordable and there were also plenty student discounts for travel etc. Interestingly enough, the educational standards were also by far the best I ever encountered. 

[Mel81x+]

1 minute ago, nudge said:

That's why the whole concept is so alien to us (those from countries with more or less free higher education). I started uni about 15 years ago and so many things changed since then but at the time, there was no tuition fee, we got state stipends for good marks, student housing was very affordable and there were also plenty student discounts for travel etc. Interestingly enough, the educational standards were also by far the best I ever encountered. 

This is how education should be period. 

[Azeem]

What's with the other scandal that rich kids buy their place in the Ivy League ?

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, SirBalon said:

€50 a year?!? 

You should take a look at the UK’s prices.

We don't have it anywhere near as bad as the Americans though. I work with some people that have a decent chunk of their monthly wages go towards paying down the ridiculous amount of debt they incurred to go to uni.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Stick With Azeem said:

What's with the other scandal that rich kids buy their place in the Ivy League ?

So there was a guy that parents would pay and he would bribe coaches of different uni sports sides to offer scholarships to these kids that were too dumb to otherwise get into these schools. I don't know what'll happen with the students, but I imagine those parents are fucked since that guy they paid is now cooperating with the US govt.

[SirBalon]

46 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We don't have it anywhere near as bad as the Americans though. I work with some people that have a decent chunk of their monthly wages go towards paying down the ridiculous amount of debt they incurred to go to uni.

Pardon me for saying that I couldn't give a damn how the Americans have it when we are geographically in a different continent and my job as a European citizen is to compare against those within my region.

Let me recap...

The changes growing up in England;

 

• No Council Tax (Originally called Poll Tax)
• No water bills
• No Congestion Charge in Zones 2 and 1 of London
• Railway was cheap and owned by the State
• No Tuition Fees for Universities
• Wages not in tune in any way with inflation
• Housing crisis both for social homes and extreme rising prices for private properties
• Added weight of moneys spent that weren't there previously like tv subscriptions, internet fees, mobile phone costs
• Benefits cuts with the poor being punished
• Policie cuts with over 10,000 officers sacked
• Wage freezes on all public sectors including in education

I'm bored mate... I could go on and on and on and on... I could Google the extra taxes implemented over the years that didn't exist back in the day that have added to extra costs where wages for the common person have stagnated and even in some cases reduced.

Europe... The EVIL entity blamed for our situation in the UK have a much much higher standard of living than us right now. This has changed dramatically in the past 5 years noticeable by those that have moved here while for the native born and bred here the dramatic downfall in quality standards has been going on since over 30 years back.

The US is unimportant to us mate. That's how it should be and the US has absolutely nothing to teach Europe in this sense and much less the UK. We should be looking to our neighbours and our continent, not some far away weird place like the US.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Pardon me for saying that I couldn't give a damn how the Americans have it when we are geographically in a different continent and my job as a European citizen is to compare against those within my region.

Let me recap...

The changes growing up in England;

 

• No Council Tax (Originally called Poll Tax)
• No water bills
• No Congestion Charge in Zones 2 and 1 of London
• Railway was cheap and owned by the State
• No Tuition Fees for Universities
• Wages not in tune in any way with inflation
• Housing crisis both for social homes and extreme rising prices for private properties
• Added weight of moneys spent that weren't there previously like tv subscriptions, internet fees, mobile phone costs
• Benefits cuts with the poor being punished
• Policie cuts with over 10,000 officers sacked
• Wage freezes on all public sectors including in education

I'm bored mate... I could go on and on and on and on... I could Google the extra taxes implemented over the years that didn't exist back in the day that have added to extra costs where wages for the common person have stagnated and even in some cases reduced.

Europe... The EVIL entity blamed for our situation in the UK have a much much higher standard of living than us right now. This has changed dramatically in the past 5 years noticeable by those that have moved here while for the native born and bred here the dramatic downfall in quality standards has been going on since over 30 years back.

The US is unimportant to us mate. That's how it should be and the US has absolutely nothing to teach Europe in this sense and much less the UK. We should be looking to our neighbours and our continent, not some far away weird place like the US.

We should care because the path we’re on, we’re not looking to the continent. And you’re preaching to the choir about how precious governments have scapegoated the EU as they gutted the UK and pushed for austerity and privitisation. Although I don’t think the congestion charge in London compares to pretty much... anything else on that list . And regardless of geography it’s difficult to deny that the US and UK share more cultural similarities than the EU nations that aren’t Ireland. And with the direction our politics has been going, I think it’s good to have an eye on what the fuck America is up to...

The US gets some stuff right and they get some stuff well wrong and we can learn from both. The US’s crisis with student loan debt is a massive problem. I’m in the US because comparatively for the same work anywhere in the UK that isn’t London, my salary would be minuscule to what it is now, and in London I’d be taking a slight paycut. If I were an American graduate in the same job I’d likely be several tens of thousands in debt upon graduation, minimum (unless I had a rich daddy like Jacob Rees-Mogg) - and quite possibly hundreds of thousands.

You bring that kind of level of debt to UK grads in a place where wages are comparatively lower, the big money is concentrated in mostly London, and the cost of most things is more expensive... and then yeah the UK problem would be much worse.

So looking at the problem in the US and taking a look at how bad it could be in the UK is not unwise imo. There’s plenty to learn from the US, positive and negative. Just like there’s plenty to learn from Germany (that’s more positive).

[Harry]

The big issue with the success of right wing politics in the US is the influence it has everywhere else

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We should care because the path we’re on, we’re not looking to the continent. And you’re preaching to the choir about how precious governments have scapegoated the EU as they gutted the UK and pushed for austerity and privitisation. Although I don’t think the congestion charge in London compares to pretty much... anything else on that list . And regardless of geography it’s difficult to deny that the US and UK share more cultural similarities than the EU nations that aren’t Ireland. And with the direction our politics has been going, I think it’s good to have an eye on what the fuck America is up to...

The US gets some stuff right and they get some stuff well wrong and we can learn from both. The US’s crisis with student loan debt is a massive problem. I’m in the US because comparatively for the same work anywhere in the UK that isn’t London, my salary would be minuscule to what it is now, and in London I’d be taking a slight paycut. If I were an American graduate in the same job I’d likely be several tens of thousands in debt upon graduation, minimum (unless I had a rich daddy like Jacob Rees-Mogg) - and quite possibly hundreds of thousands.

You bring that kind of level of debt to UK grads in a place where wages are comparatively lower, the big money is concentrated in mostly London, and the cost of most things is more expensive... and then yeah the UK problem would be much worse.

So looking at the problem in the US and taking a look at how bad it could be in the UK is not unwise imo. There’s plenty to learn from the US, positive and negative. Just like there’s plenty to learn from Germany (that’s more positive).

I added the Congestion Charge because that's a tax that didn't exist previously. It's a double-barrelled tax because the motive behind it is a good one in theory... "Saving the planet" until we look deeper into it all and see the types of people that live in those areas, where the traffic that previously travelled through the centre of town, where it's now diverted to going around.

it's like spending £100k on the cladding of a building in your borough because it looked ugly and your more well off constituents constantly complained about it being an eye sore... You can't knock it down and push the people somewhere else which is what they're genuinely asking you for, so you buy the cheapest lethal cladding that can be bought.

That same year you spend £150k on 1 residential road just 5 minutes walk away from that building... You spend that money because the residents are complaining that when the snow comes (if it comes) the paving stones become really slippery. So the £150k goes for some goes with a grinding machine to add a new texture to the paving stones.

You know where I'm going mate... They make you believe it's for the common good, the good of all but it ain't. They make you believe that it needs paying for because it's unsustainable in the current manner, but it's not true because it had been sustained like that always.

Everything should be based in those who can pay, those who can more, pay more and for those who cant, it's free as long as those grades match the necessary requirements.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I added the Congestion Charge because that's a tax that didn't exist previously. It's a double-barrelled tax because the motive behind it is a good one in theory... "Saving the planet" until we look deeper into it all and see the types of people that live in those areas, where the traffic that previously travelled through the centre of town, where it's now diverted to going around.

it's like spending £100k on the cladding of a building in your borough because it looked ugly and your more well off constituents constantly complained about it being an eye sore... You can't knock it down and push the people somewhere else which is what they're genuinely asking you for, so you buy the cheapest lethal cladding that can be bought.

That same year you spend £150k on 1 residential road just 5 minutes walk away from that building... You spend that money because the residents are complaining that when the snow comes (if it comes) the paving stones become really slippery. So the £150k goes for some goes with a grinding machine to add a new texture to the paving stones.

You know where I'm going mate... They make you believe it's for the common good, the good of all but it ain't. They make you believe that it needs paying for because it's unsustainable in the current manner, but it's not true because it had been sustained like that always.

Everything should be based in those who can pay, those who can more, pay more and for those who cant, it's free as long as those grades match the necessary requirements.

You might not like this as someone living in London... but I don’t have much sympathy for the plight of Londoners. You’ve all got it a hell of a lot better than the rest of the country so everyone fucking moves there. And by that token, you Londoners are in a better position to pay an extra tax than anyone else in the UK

Having said that I am also looking to buy in London in the event of a hard Brexit (or even a soft one tbh)  - so maybe I’ll care more about London then after I’ve given disaster capitalism a go

[SirBalon]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You might not like this as someone living in London... but I don’t have much sympathy for the plight of Londoners. You’ve all got it a hell of a lot better than the rest of the country so everyone fucking moves there. And by that token, you Londoners are in a better position to pay an extra tax than anyone else in the UK

Having said that I am also looking to buy in London in the event of a hard Brexit (or even a soft one tbh)  - so maybe I’ll care more about London then after I’ve given disaster capitalism a go

So you follow my understanding that I don’t care about how people live in the US in terms of a comparison to the UK and the respective laws. This is the UK and it is placed geographically in Europe which is where our eyes should look to. Not that far-right Republic.

[Harry]

But right wing politicians everywhere aspire to replicate the semi apocalyptic partisan landscape that prevails in the US. So it is highly influential.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

So you follow my understanding that I don’t care about how people live in the US in terms of a comparison to the UK and the respective laws. This is the UK and it is placed geographically in Europe which is where our eyes should look to. Not that far-right Republic.

Yeah but I think you’re missing the point. The path we’re on isn’t like the rest of the continent. We’re looking to follow in the footsteps of our former colony across the Atlantic (not Canada).

And again, regardless of geography you’ve got to remember there’s a stronger cultural connection with a former colony than there is with us and say Germany or France, who historically we Brits have typically always underscored our cultural differences with them.

I also think that while Westminster has scapegoated the EU, Westminster’s heavy investment in London at the cost of neglecting every other region in the UK is a fact that’s gone on for longer than I’ve been alive. And it plays a massive role in why so many people around the country feel left behind. Which is why so many people voted to collapse our economy and put us in a terrible position to negotiate trade deals.

So as a result I don’t care if Londoners with cars have an extra tax to pay. Compared to the rest of the country, if you live in London and own a car you’re generally in a better position to pay more in tax than pretty much any other Brit in any other part of Britain in a similar situation. Londoners might not think that’s fair - but it’s not as not fair as the reality the rest of the country faces

[SirBalon]

54 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah but I think you’re missing the point. The path we’re on isn’t like the rest of the continent. We’re looking to follow in the footsteps of our former colony across the Atlantic (not Canada).

And again, regardless of geography you’ve got to remember there’s a stronger cultural connection with a former colony than there is with us and say Germany or France, who historically we Brits have typically always underscored our cultural differences with them.

I also think that while Westminster has scapegoated the EU, Westminster’s heavy investment in London at the cost of neglecting every other region in the UK is a fact that’s gone on for longer than I’ve been alive. And it plays a massive role in why so many people around the country feel left behind. Which is why so many people voted to collapse our economy and put us in a terrible position to negotiate trade deals.

So as a result I don’t care if Londoners with cars have an extra tax to pay. Compared to the rest of the country, if you live in London and own a car you’re generally in a better position to pay more in tax than pretty much any other Brit in any other part of Britain in a similar situation. Londoners might not think that’s fair - but it’s not as not fair as the reality the rest of the country faces

You don’t care about London, that’s fair enough mate.

What I was getting at with the nee taxes )the whole of the country have to pay) is that we used to get even MORE for the taxes we USED to pay. Idiots that are ignorant and don’t want to learn will blame mass immigration for this without understanding anything about the economy.

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

You don’t care about London, that’s fair enough mate.

What I was getting at with the nee taxes )the whole of the country have to pay) is that we used to get even MORE for the taxes we USED to pay. Idiots that are ignorant and don’t want to learn will blame mass immigration for this without understanding anything about the economy.

Nah I wouldn’t say I don’t care. I just don’t sympathise wIth complaints of the congestion charge. But everything else you’ve just said I agree with.

But I do think we should look to the US and learn lessons from their mistakes currently affecting a whole generation, while we have a similar issue building but on a much smaller scale. Because I think with us, the potential for it to be very dire is pretty high.

Granted I’m sure education will be well on the back burner in the immediate future, so we probably won’t have time to learn a fucking thing. And it’s not like our political leadership is going to suddenly grow competence or that the electorate will start paying attention at large. So I’m not optimistic we’ll learn anything