Atlético de Madrid Discussion

[SirBalon]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

I pray to the footballing gods that Griezmann stays at Atléti and so does Cholo. They just need one mediocampista and perhaps another extremo. But they aren´t getting younger, Filipe Luís isn´t gettting any younger in particular. What fucks me off is that Theo Hernández was snapped up by Real. It´s a very small, yet elite squad but that will burn it out quicker. Depth is needed.

Griezmann , Costa
Vitolo , Koke, Saúl, Ángel
Luís, Godin, Lucas, Vrjalsko

I imagine that is the team moving forward, Giménez has regressed I believe. I don´t think this team has much left in the tank. It really needs help. Could Vietto be retooled as a backup right midfielder-winger?

@SirBalon @Kowabunga Your thoughts on the future of  El Pupas?

It's not easy at Atlético Madrid to sign what you want. Because of their return to stardom as a club since El Cholo returned to the club, this time as coach... Everyone they go for demands top dollar from the club selling to the player targeted in terms of wages.  Atleti are a million light years a lot healthier financially than they were 10 years ago, but they're not in the league they're being treated as being a part of. 

They know what they need, but it's not easy to get it. Infact Id say most top clubs are finding this a difficult situation right now, even your club Chelsea mate.  It's not easy to get who you want.

[Kowabunga]

15 hours ago, Spike said:

I pray to the footballing gods that Griezmann stays at Atléti and so does Cholo. They just need one mediocampista and perhaps another extremo. But they aren´t getting younger, Filipe Luís isn´t gettting any younger in particular. What fucks me off is that Theo Hernández was snapped up by Real. It´s a very small, yet elite squad but that will burn it out quicker. Depth is needed.

Griezmann , Costa
Vitolo , Koke, Saúl, Ángel
Luís, Godin, Lucas, Vrjalsko

I imagine that is the team moving forward, Giménez has regressed I believe. I don´t think this team has much left in the tank. It really needs help. Could Vietto be retooled as a backup right midfielder-winger?

@SirBalon @Kowabunga Your thoughts on the future of  El Pupas?

The centre backs are fine. Both Giménez and Lucas (particularly the later) show enough aptitude as substitutes and as starters, with Lucas able to play left back.

The best scenario would be keeping Oblak and Griezmann, adding another "cheap" midfielder. Pending an improvement on the decision-making of Correa, and taking into account my complete disregard for what Vitolo brings to the table, another attacking player able to create for himself ("a la Carrasco") would be good.

A more probable (and not so good) scenario starts with selling Griezmann and/or Oblak.

Just for the record, and exposing myself to scorn, I liked Courtois more than Oblak.

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Kowabunga said:

The centre backs are fine. Both Giménez and Lucas (particularly the later) show enough aptitude as substitutes and as starters, with Lucas able to play left back.

The best scenario would be keeping Oblak and Griezmann, adding another "cheap" midfielder. Pending an improvement on the decision-making of Correa, and taking into account my complete disregard for what Vitolo brings to the table, another attacking player able to create for himself ("a la Carrasco") would be good.

A more probable (and not so good) scenario starts with selling Griezmann and/or Oblak.

Just for the record, and exposing myself to scorn, I liked Courtois more than Oblak.

You've no concern for the leftback? Varajajajklkokolko can play left side as well but I'm a stickler for left side = left footed, right side = right footed.  It's a shame that Atléti don´t have the purchasing power to pick up a player like Raphaël Guerrero (winger, defence, and central mid! one player). But maybe they can snatch up a cheaper option like Taglicafico from Ajax . Courtois is a clown for Chelsea, never 100%; bitter that he joined the club and found out he was a Pupa at heart when he was loaned out. I would take Oblak at Chelsea and Courtois at Atléti in a hearbeat, they´d probably perform at a higher standard anyway.

 

16 hours ago, SirBalon said:

It's not easy at Atlético Madrid to sign what you want. Because of their return to stardom as a club since El Cholo returned to the club, this time as coach... Everyone they go for demands top dollar from the club selling to the player targeted in terms of wages.  Atleti are a million light years a lot healthier financially than they were 10 years ago, but they're not in the league they're being treated as being a part of. 

They know what they need, but it's not easy to get it. Infact Id say most top clubs are finding this a difficult situation right now, even your club Chelsea mate.  It's not easy to get who you want.

Atléti fans best remember who they are, pupas not galácticos. It´s totally within reason to expect the club to maintain superstardom but it´s a fools errand to buy into ´buying big names´ because that isn´t what made Atléti great, it was ´Cholissimo´ (I hope I spelt that correctly). Chelsea are odd, on the other hand. They could very well spend like Man City or Paris but they don´t. @Cicero will disagree with my but Chelsea don't spend like they used to. Yes, they still spend millions of pounds, they still purchase players regularly in the 20 and 30 million pound range but they don't break the bank and smash records anymore. There will not be a Fernando Torres signing in the future, there will not be another Shevchenko, the club will still spend more than most other clubs in the world but it will be on quantity, not marquees. I feel they are very much stuck in the mindset of the late, great, Jack Walker; 'Why do you want to sign Zidane when we have Tim Sherwood?' 

 

[Carnivore Chris]

In terms of importance in who Atletico need to keep(when referring to Simeone, Griezmann and Oblak), I would say it goes like this:-

 

Simeone:- Players have come and gone since he went to Atletico, but he continues to have them competing with the best and winning trophies. You won't replace him, especially right now as there isn't really anyone available. Not to mention that it's very difficult to win over the Atletico fans and any new man(whoever they may be) would have a near impossible challenge ahead of them for that alone .

Oblak:- He is among the top 3 players in his position in world football.

Griezmann:- Brilliant attacker(I say attacker and not forward as he can occupy various positions), although Atletico always have top fowards, so you would fancy them to replace him easier than the other 2, albeit it still being a very difficult task itself. They also wouldn't want to lose him as he's in his prime now and is at home in Madrid. Buying a replacement would mean them needing time to adapt to what Simeone wants out of them.

 

 

[Kowabunga]

On 19/5/2018 at 00:38, Spike said:

You've no concern for the leftback? Varajajajklkokolko can play left side as well but I'm a stickler for left side = left footed, right side = right footed.  It's a shame that Atléti don´t have the purchasing power to pick up a player like Raphaël Guerrero (winger, defence, and central mid! one player). But maybe they can snatch up a cheaper option like Taglicafico from Ajax . Courtois is a clown for Chelsea, never 100%; bitter that he joined the club and found out he was a Pupa at heart when he was loaned out. I would take Oblak at Chelsea and Courtois at Atléti in a hearbeat, they´d probably perform at a higher standard anyway.

Well, a fullback will be probably brought in, but I don't think it is "key", given the reduced size of Cholo's "rosters".

In the other hand, the confirmation of the very much anticipated signing of Villarreal's Rodri happened. I haven't really watched Villarreal this season but if the expectations are him being the new Busquets or something like that, he is probably bound to dissapoint.

[Spike]

4 hours ago, Kowabunga said:

Well, a fullback will be probably brought in, but I don't think it is "key", given the reduced size of Cholo's "rosters".

In the other hand, the confirmation of the very much anticipated signing of Villarreal's Rodri happened. I haven't really watched Villarreal this season but if the expectations are him being the new Busquets or something like that, he is probably bound to dissapoint.

I'm sure he'll be mediocre and some unknown player bought for €200,00 will be world class and then sold for a profit to China. 

On the other hand it is usually Chelsea or Man Utd that embarrasses themselves by buying players from their own academy.

[Guest]

Christian Cueva linked to Atleti.

@SirBalon who is the current 10 at the club right now?

[SirBalon]

15 minutes ago, Blue said:

Christian Cueva linked to Atleti.

@SirBalon who is the current 10 at the club right now?

They haven’t got what you would call a traditional 10 at Atleti as far as I’m concerned. It’s sort of been shared between Koke and Griezmann because of how Simeone sets his team up.

But the best person to ask is @Kowabunga

[Kowabunga]

23 hours ago, SirBalon said:

They haven’t got what you would call a traditional 10 at Atleti as far as I’m concerned. It’s sort of been shared between Koke and Griezmann because of how Simeone sets his team up.

But the best person to ask is @Kowabunga

I'd say that indeed there is no traditional in the most common starting eleven, with the ball creation in the opposing half of the pitch relying a lot in small triangulations close to the touchline between Koke, Griezmann, Saúl and the fullbacks.

[Kowabunga]

Sluggish pace so far in the Sttutgart vs Atlético friendly fixture.

Gelson Martins lacks some major acceleration at this point of offseason. Doesn't look fit.

It looks like Atlético could use a lot of through (shallow) balls to Lemar this season.

Rodri is composed. The accidental? centre back pair does not instill confidence, but to be fair they've done barely anything in the last 30 minutes due to the paltry offensive game of Sttutgart.

 

[SirBalon]

5 hours ago, Kowabunga said:

Sluggish pace so far in the Sttutgart vs Atlético friendly fixture.

Gelson Martins lacks some major acceleration at this point of offseason. Doesn't look fit.

It looks like Atlético could use a lot of through (shallow) balls to Lemar this season.

Rodri is composed. The accidental? centre back pair does not instill confidence, but to be fair they've done barely anything in the last 30 minutes due to the paltry offensive game of Sttutgart.

 

Simeone will be looking not to start the season like the last campaign which was very mixed and then had that major stutter during the early part of the Champions League.  I wouldn't read too much into the pre season results because these days it isn't even a pre season and more a method of bringing in early money with exhibition games against top clubs. It's a testing period along with obligations. 

[Kowabunga]

1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

Simeone will be looking not to start the season like the last campaign which was very mixed and then had that major stutter during the early part of the Champions League.  I wouldn't read too much into the pre season results because these days it isn't even a pre season and more a method of bringing in early money with exhibition games against top clubs. It's a testing period along with obligations. 

Of course. I only watched this in order to check on current form and (primarily) to know the new players. The second half was crap, and the centrebacks proved to be as crappy as the first half hinted (2 dumb penalties). The playmaking of the youth products who entered the game was no better, though.  

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

Of course. I only watched this in order to check on fitness and (primarily) to know the new players. The second half was crap, and the centrebacks proved to be as crappy as the first half hinted (2 dumb penalties). The playmaking of the youth products who entered the game was no better, though.  

Pre season is extremely difficult for us fans to understand these days due to what it's become mate.  But I can guarantee you that the coaches know what they're looking for and aside from maybe one coach out there, the result/s these days are the least of their worries in pre season.

But it is something to be wary about and there is relative recent history to look for in this sense...

Last season Barcelona had a marvellous pre season in terms of results even beating Real Madrid in the process (the US) and in the Supercopa de España we know what occurred with Barça being humiliated.  The media went mental and started attaching an undeserved status to Real and their squad although on the face of it seeming realistic... On came the real season and the reality hit home with Real having prepared hard for that game but with the players totally not connected for a long season and an erratic first half to the campaign that saw them eliminated from everything domestic. Only their saving grace which can be construed and looked in various ways came within the Champions League and covered the issues that were there...

But analyse this!  The Champions League victory may have been juiced to the limits while failure was as well as possible made to be forgotten, but mayhem then occurred this summer with Zidane leaving, Cristiano moving club, the rumours surrounding the will of Modrić to depart and various other factors concerning their signing policy...

Can we go back to last pre season to analyse all of what I've just written and more?  Maybe I'm being too conspiratorial, but maybe not.  Maybe the signs were already there and only inside did they know the truth which is why we have this today.

Let's just look at Zidane's final words  in the shape of two selected sentences before leaving, the important words;

"What I value most in these three years as Real Madrid coach was winning La Liga"

"I'm leaving because I can't see me taking this team any further and continuing to win!"

With this I'm not saying that Atlético Madrid or any team should look upon their pre season as something as big to read into. I'm more of a pragmatist in reading the modern pre season, but I don't dismiss everything.

[Spike]

The pre-season is like dipping toes in icy water. Dangle around a bit to get the feel of it before diving in for the race, but having only the toes submerged doesn't mean it is swimming yet.

[SirBalon]

 

The prodigious decade of Atlético Madrid has definitely shown us that great deeds can be achieved with clever planning and of course one mustn't forget, a great coach, passionate and in love with the club who's team he directs like the conductor of an orchestra.

I never thought I'd be quoting the title of a song title from the Eurovision Song Contest, but the victorious drag queen Conchita Wurst with her song "Rise Like a Phoenix" is more than just apt here... Forgive me! 

I already posted a thread on how the club sorted itself out financially and that they now not only hold their head above water economically, but that they also challenge the biggest clubs in Europe for the biggest names.  I listened to a senior Spanish journalist only last night state that when he looked at both teams and benches two nights ago in Tallin, that for the first time in his lifetime he felt that the overal picture on paper looked more optional for Atlético Madrid than Real Madrid.

Anyhow... What a decade it's been for the club that was always the unlucky one, the self pitying club "el pupas" that promoted the reasoning to support their club as a form of choosing to suffer but in doing so you were entering a united family like no other in football.  The part about "Los Colchoneros" being a close knit family remains and always will do due to their social make-up which can't be erased, but what's definitely changed is that there ain't no more sulking in a corner pointing at a situation of victimisation.

Like "El Cholo" (Simeone) likes to quote in reverence of Atleti's true father in the shape of Luis Aragonés;

 

"Ganar y ganar y volver a ganar" (Win, win and win again)

Although my favourite one from Aragonés being this one in a motivational speech to his team;

"You all play for a team, you are all in debt to each other.  Any player not giving 100% you will know who you are and I say this to you... You are a piece of shit.  Come on, join in with me and think this... I am a piece of shit, I am like shit which is discarded and worthless! You total selfish piece of shit! How can you do that!"

 

[SirBalon]

All the crests Atlético de Madrid have gone through from their original name Atlético Aviación to the present day.

[SirBalon]

@Kowabunga you now have the Atlético Madrid crest thanks to Rab.  

[Spike]

I can't help but have a fondness for this club. They definitely have a charismatic bunch of players right now. 

[Danny]

That second crest  

[Kowabunga]

 

Filipe Luís' been wanting a transfer to PSG for the last week or so. A somewhat worrying prospect for Atlético, particularly at this point of the transfer window. The money offered by PSG is very little (€5M) and the whole "unsettling a player while only offering the club little more than fish bones in today's market" enerving, although the Atlético move with Gelson is not particularly upright either. Karma for the Cerezos and Giles, I guess.

19 hours ago, SirBalon said:

@Kowabunga you now have the Atlético Madrid crest thanks to Rab.  

[SirBalon]

They're saying in Spain that Saúl is the new Lampard...  I get it and there are many similarities to be honest.

@carefreeluke @Cicero @True Blue @Bluewolf @Spike @Kowabunga

[Cicero]

There's only one next Lampard 

[True Blue]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

They're saying in Spain that Saúl is the new Lampard...  I get it and there are many similarities to be honest.

@carefreeluke @Cicero @True Blue @Bluewolf @Spike

[SirBalon]

 

 

[Spike]

15 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

They're saying in Spain that Saúl is the new Lampard...  I get it and there are many similarities to be honest.

@carefreeluke @Cicero @True Blue @Bluewolf @Spike @Kowabunga

He is a better dribbler than Lamps. But yes their are similarities. Do you recall his solo goal against Bayern? Marvelous technique.