[VOTE] Team of the 21st Century - CM - Quarter Finals

[Mpache]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

So you saw Cazorla during that period and have the audacity to claim he didn't impact his team enough.....Right.... he didn't just make an immediate impact at Arsenal and ended their 10-year trophy drought, being a vital figure during those years. 

Had Cazorla accepted that move to Real Madrid in 2008 he would be praised higher. That is an undeniable fact. 

I respect the FA Cup for what it is, but you can't compare that to an Intercontinental Cup for Boca, several Libertadores wins or a semi-final spot for Villareal.

For me that isn't enough impact besides a few 4th place finishes for Arsenal. He was good but the club continued to stagnate. As for the last bit, could be an undeniable fact. Same way I could say if Farfan moved to Real Madrid or Bayern he would be one of Peru's best ever. All hypothetical. Didn't happen, so not really relevant to the history of everything.

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

I respect the FA Cup for what it is, but you can't compare that to an Intercontinental Cup for Boca, several Libertadores wins or a semi-final spot for Villareal.

For me that isn't enough impact besides a few 4th place finishes for Arsenal. He was good but the club continued to stagnate. As for the last bit, could be an undeniable fact. Same way I could say if Farfan moved to Real Madrid or Bayern he would be one of Peru's best ever. All hypothetical. Didn't happen, so not really relevant to the history of everything.

You have a tendency to divert virtually every argument someone calls you out on. 

Riqulme will lose to a shit European. 

Cazorla is good, but he didn't revolutionise the game. 

Cazorla didn't do enough to impact Arsenal. 

FA Cup is good but it's nothing compared to the Intercontinental Cup

 

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Cicero said:

You have a tendency to divert virtually every argument someone calls you out on. 

Riqulme will lose to a shit European. 

Cazorla is good, but he didn't revolutionise the game. 

Cazorla didn't do enough to impact Arsenal. 

FA Cup is good but it's nothing compared to the Intercontinental Cup

 

All I did mate was make my arguments comparing to what you said. Its really nothing bad at all. It’s called a counter argument!

Literally all those arguments are true in my eyes. Cazorla didn’t invent a position nor did he revolutionize it. He was great for Arsenal but besides winning 2 FA cups, the club continued to stagnate. Intercontinental Cup was way more important than the current Club World Cup, mostly cos South American club football used to actually be good. Whether it was ever important to Europeans is up for debate, but back then for South America it was the holy grail just as it is now.

Agree to disagree. As good as Cazorla was, he wasn’t anywhere near as impactful as Riquelme nor on his clubs nor on the game in my eyes. He was also a way better player. I like both players but it’s a no contest to me.

[Spike]

8 hours ago, Inti Brian said:

Was a little worried Riquelme wouldn't be in it.

Extremely underappreciated. He basically created a new role for attacking midfielders. Would easily be at any of the top sides today (except Mourinho sides)

No he isn't, people suck his dick so often it's gotten boring.

[Carnivore Chris]

 

9 hours ago, Inti Brian said:

To be honest, he's better than most of his competition there. Only ones I've perhaps have ahead are David Silva, Rivaldo, Sneijder and Totti. 

No doubt I'l be disappointed, when PL or Arsenal fans inevitably vote for Cazorla over him but at least he's been included at all given how unappreciated he is.

Cazorla is probably more a La Liga man than a Premier League man. His best days were by far and wide at Villarreal and Malaga. If you hadn't seen Cazorla pre his Arsenal days then I'm not sure how you can say he's shit. He's also still playing well now at Villarreal and been key for them this season. Not to mention bounced back from 2 serious injuries in his career and evolved from a tricky winger to an attacking mid to a centre mid, which shows how talented he is. His evolution as a player has been incredible and he's even more underappreciated than Riquelme.

Cazorla was massively underrrated on this forum before Arsenal and people were even asking who he was on here when he signed for them despite being class for years beforehand and making a shitload of appearances for Spain.

[RandoEFC+]

Time for me to fix the draw for the CAM competition then. All eight ties will be Cazorla vs Riquelme.

[Stan]

44 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Time for me to fix the draw for the CAM competition then. All eight ties will be Cazorla vs Riquelme.

Or take Riquelme out of the equation altogether

[Mpache]

3 hours ago, Carnivore Chris said:

 

Cazorla is probably more a La Liga man than a Premier League man. His best days were by far and wide at Villarreal and Malaga. If you hadn't seen Cazorla pre his Arsenal days then I'm not sure how you can say he's shit. He's also still playing well now at Villarreal and been key for them this season. Not to mention bounced back from 2 serious injuries in his career and evolved from a tricky winger to an attacking mid to a centre mid, which shows how talented he is. His evolution as a player has been incredible and he's even more underappreciated than Riquelme.

Cazorla was massively underrrated on this forum before Arsenal and people were even asking who he was on here when he signed for them despite being class for years beforehand and making a shitload of appearances for Spain.

I didn’t say he was shit though. I said he wasn’t very good compared to Riquelme.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Inti Brian said:

I didn’t say he was shit though. I said he wasn’t very good compared to Riquelme.

You said he was shite compared to Riquelme.

Even so, just cos you might not think he's as good as Riquelme, it is not the same as being shite compared to him. 

It's like saying Aguero is shite compared to (the Brazilian) Ronaldo. Quite clearly not the case. Aguero is quality. Ronaldo is just a level above. 

Cazorla was quality for Villarreal and Arsenal especially given his injuries he had to battle through. Riquelme was a level above for valid reasons. 

[True Blue]

Semi final coming any time soon?

[Mpache]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

You said he was shite compared to Riquelme.

Even so, just cos you might not think he's as good as Riquelme, it is not the same as being shite compared to him. 

It's like saying Aguero is shite compared to (the Brazilian) Ronaldo. Quite clearly not the case. Aguero is quality. Ronaldo is just a level above. 

Cazorla was quality for Villarreal and Arsenal especially given his injuries he had to battle through. Riquelme was a level above for valid reasons. 

This is quite literally what I meant.

[Mpache]

Time to get out ol reliable

[Mel81x+]

Poor Paul Scholes couldn't even get a vote.

[RandoEFC+]

I think that wraps things up here.

[Stan]

12 minutes ago, Inti Brian said:

Time to get out ol reliable

Yeah and you do it loads. Weakens any debates you have whenever you use it so much. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Stan said:

Yeah and you do it loads. Weakens any debates you have whenever you use it so much. 

Not really, all it takes is a bit of sarcasm detecting.

Santi Cazorla was obviously quality for various reasons, but yeah Riquelme was clearly a level above in my eyes. Examples such as "he could have been, or should have been this good" are all hypothetical and are not really relevant. Could be used for any player with potential. 

Again, not saying he wasn't good but saying he was "shite" was quite clearly a hyperbole. Cazorla was great, but yeah I know who I'm picking between the two.

[Stan]

That's not sarcasm but whatever .

For what it's worth I'd probably pick Riquelme as well anyway.