Arsenal Discussion

[Panna King]

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

50 minutes ago, 6666 said:

To be honest I didn't necessarily have an issue with how Xhaka reacted to the boos. You want someone who will stand up to it and back himself rather than someone who would be crushed by it. Emery saying he needs to apologise isn't a great move in my opinion but I guess it depends on how he apologises if he does.

There's a toxic atmosphere around Arsenal right now - it's been building up over the years (I actually think the popularity of that ArsenalFanTV or whatever the fuck the name is on youtube has actually played a big part in swaying large parts of the fanbase online - and they go to matches getting peoples reactions, so I think they've fanned the flames a bit). But that toxicity will affect the players, so you can't just go around reacting to the boos like that when you're the captain and there are already a lot of people questioning whether or not you even belong at the club... let alone are captaining it.

I always thought Xhaka was a weird choice for Emery to give the captaincy to - aside from quality on the pitch, which I'll just say is inconsistent at best, he's never really struck me as someone that'll stand up and be counted when Arsenal need it - he doesn't visably act like a leader like some of the players previously mentioned, where they're a general on the pitch. And with the inconsistency, he's not the sort of player you can count on to lead through inspiration. And on top of that, he's obviously not been popular with the matchgoing fans.

It's tough for Xhaka, because going off to a chorus of boos like that cannot feel good. But right now he's the controversially appointed captain of a side that's got a manager under pressure and not really handling that pressure all that well, so he's got to expect some of that stick from the fans. It's part of his job, even if it's difficult.

Emery's caught between a rock and a hard place, because I think under normal circumstances at any club you take the captaincy away from a player that reacts like that. Were the fans right to be booing? Probably not - but he's the captain he can't react and put up another point of contention between the fans and the players. The fans and players should be pulling together and any barriers to that are just going to keep this toxic atmosphere going. But now he has to walk a tightrope between pissing off the captain he's newly appointed and placating the fans.

Personally, I'm not sure the toxicity of this season at Arsenal will subside until Emery's gone. The tactics on display for Arsenal in away matches this season don't demonstrate a man that's going to take Arsenal anywhere in the league - cup runs are his best chance of success. Boring football with low energy and low effort from the players are not going to keep any fans happy.

But it'd be a good story for him (and Xhaka) if they can get some redemption for themselves this season. So I hope that happens. I don't think it will, but it'd be a nice story for the season.

[Cicero]

David Luiz Jesus wept. The bloke who averages a fault for a goal conceded every game 

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Panna King said:

He was never captain material anyway but I blame Emery for this 100%.  

You do actually seem like someone who would moan what ever manager we have

[Panna King]

45 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

You do actually seem like someone who would moan what ever manager we have

No I wouldnt but how can you defend Emery so far and no one can even blame the board this time. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Panna King said:

No I wouldnt but how can you defend Emery so far and no one can even blame the board this time. 

I haven't defended him I don't think he is the right man for the job. But you said that after one really bad result against Liverpool last season. It's ridiculous to make a decision based on one game.  You are clearly a guy who would moan about any manager a lot. I mean do you really think we will be competitive at the top with kronke? The ownership and the way the club is run is clearly an issue. Any manager will struggle. You just come across as a know it all who thinks he knows how to manage a football club to me.

[Panna King]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I haven't defended him I don't think he is the right man for the job. But you said that after one really bad result against Liverpool last season. It's ridiculous to make a decision based on one game.  You are clearly a guy who would moan about any manager a lot. I mean do you really think we will be competitive at the top with kronke? The ownership and the way the club is run is clearly an issue. Any manager will struggle. You just come across as a know it all who thinks he knows how to manage a football club to me.

I just want Arsenal to win that is it and I do not see anything from Emery it is frustrating. The football is sooo boring and this is the best attack we have had for 15 years or so. Kroenke has spent money now and on players that should be good enough to get top 4 at least, also there are good youth players coming through.   Emery is clearly the problem as he is clueless, he sets up one way and then changes it 2nd half every single game. He was doing this last season but it is much worse this season with better players. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Panna King said:

I just want Arsenal to win that is it and I do not see anything from Emery it is frustrating. The football is sooo boring and this is the best attack we have had for 15 years or so. Kroenke has spent money now and on players that should be good enough to get top 4 at least, also there are good youth players coming through.   Emery is clearly the problem as he is clueless, he sets up one way and then changes it 2nd half every single game. He was doing this last season but it is much worse this season with better players. 

Emery isn't clueless mate. He will forget what most will ever know about football. If you think he is clueless why don't you have a go at football coaching since you seem to think you know more. You said before it took a good tactition to win European tournaments. Emery has won 3. 

I have recently worked with someone who was involved in coaching. There is a lot of misconceptions about how football coaching works. Coaches don't just pick a team. It is very careful analysised. Coaches are reliant on a lot of information being given to them there team is picked based on that. If they have bad analysts around them it is hard for them. They are also reliant on people around them to get maximum performance. There are issues at arsenal and I suspect a lot of coaches would struggle as I don't think kronke would give them the tools they need. Also kronke hasn't spent that much compared to city,utd and Chelsea. Liverpool have done well but that has taken am exceptional coach to do that.

[Panna King]

7 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Emery isn't clueless mate. He will forget what most will ever know about football. If you think he is clueless why don't you have a go at football coaching since you seem to think you know more. You said before it took a good tactition to win European tournaments. Emery has won 3. 

I have recently worked with someone who was involved in coaching. There is a lot of misconceptions about how football coaching works. Coaches don't just pick a team. It is very careful analysised. Coaches are reliant on a lot of information being given to them there team is picked based on that. If they have bad analysts around them it is hard for them. They are also reliant on people around them to get maximum performance. There are issues at arsenal and I suspect a lot of coaches would struggle as I don't think kronke would give them the tools they need. Also kronke hasn't spent that much compared to city,utd and Chelsea. Liverpool have done well but that has taken am exceptional coach to do that.

I have watched enough football in my life to know certain things. I have studied sports science and conditioning.

Regarging someone who doesn't know their starting XI after this time is clueless. Tell me what is Arsenals style now?  Emery has been a bad appointment and they need to get rid of him before its too late.  You cant keep on blaming Kroenke, Arsenal are under performing, what team has a 350k player not even in their squad. Plus players like Mustafi who cost nearly 40 million.    
 

Emery has done well with 1 club which happens but fail to continue the success at others. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Panna King

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Panna King said:

I have watched enough football in my life to know certain things. I have studied sports science and conditioning.

Regarging someone who doesn't know their starting XI after this time is clueless. Tell me what is Arsenals style now?  Emery has been a bad appointment and they need to get rid of him before its too late.  You cant keep on blaming Kroenke, Arsenal are under performing, what team has a 350k player not even in their squad. Plus players like Mustafi who cost nearly 40 million.    

Not saying you don't know certain things. And I don't think he is the right man. But he's not clueless he's a professional coach. 

[Panna King]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Not saying you don't know certain things. And I don't think he is the right man. But he's not clueless he's a professional coach. 

Well he is at Arsenal whatever he is trying to do is not working. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Honestly, I think whoever was going to come in after Wenger was going to have a hard time. Yeah, Wenger went stale and clearly lost his touch - but he's probably Arsenal's best manager ever, he's a club legend and also a legend to English football. I don't think Emery's a bad manager - but I also don't think he's the right manager to kick Arsenal onto the next level. He might take them far in cups, but once you get to the final that's always a bit of a crapshoot in most cases.

I also question whether Arsenal fans are patient enough to allow their next manager to build a side. Because when you look at Arsenal in the last years under Wenger, it does seem as though they lost their identity. When you look at Emery's Arsenal in most cases... they don't play with a cohesive identity. I mean... it doesn't help that Emery's been a bit shit tactically in the league. It will take time for a new manager to stamp his impression on the side and give them some character.

But just because I don't know if Arsenal fans are patient enough to wait... doesn't mean I think they need to be patient here with Emery. I think the on-pitch performances (not the results, just the performances), especially from this season, are not what I'd say indicate that this is the man for a long term project.

I think first things first, though, Arsenal need to bring in a sporting director with a track record of some success at some other club in Europe. 

[Panna King]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Honestly, I think whoever was going to come in after Wenger was going to have a hard time. Yeah, Wenger went stale and clearly lost his touch - but he's probably Arsenal's best manager ever, he's a club legend and also a legend to English football. I don't think Emery's a bad manager - but I also don't think he's the right manager to kick Arsenal onto the next level. He might take them far in cups, but once you get to the final that's always a bit of a crapshoot in most cases.

I also question whether Arsenal fans are patient enough to allow their next manager to build a side. Because when you look at Arsenal in the last years under Wenger, it does seem as though they lost their identity. When you look at Emery's Arsenal in most cases... they don't play with a cohesive identity. I mean... it doesn't help that Emery's been a bit shit tactically in the league. It will take time for a new manager to stamp his impression on the side and give them some character.

But just because I don't know if Arsenal fans are patient enough to wait... doesn't mean I think they need to be patient here with Emery. I think the on-pitch performances (not the results, just the performances), especially from this season, are not what I'd say indicate that this is the man for a long term project.

I think first things first, though, Arsenal need to bring in a sporting director with a track record of some success at some other club in Europe. 

Arsenal already have a sporting director now Edu who was great in Brazil.   The problem with Emery is horrible negative football, terrible tactics and he is doing what he is to defence to the attack. The Ozil thing has not helped him plus the Xhaka thing now apart from the bad results, the wheels are coming off. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Panna King

[Dr. Gonzo]

54 minutes ago, Panna King said:

Arsenal already have a sporting director now Edu who was great in Brazil.   The problem with Emery is horrible negative football, terrible tactics and he is doing what he is to defence to the attack. The Ozil thing has not helped him plus the Xhaka thing now apart from the bad results, the wheels are coming off. 

Being a sporting director in Brazil is IMO a bit different to being sporting director at a European club - when Brazilian clubs sign Brazilians/other South Americans they're not necessarily looking for the same qualities as what European clubs, particularly those the size of Arsenal, are looking for when they sign players from Brazil/elsewhere.

The sporting directors in Brazil are more like hunters (I guess miners is the better example) looking for rough stones they can cut up to make gemstones. A sporting director at a club like Arsenal's job is to look at the various gemstones and determine which ones he can bring in for a fair price that'll either be precious gemstones (those obviously class players) or... that will glisten the right way under the floodlights of the stadium (those players that fit in with the system that the sporting director/manager have built).

Honestly looking at your transfers over the last two seasons, it's hard to tell how good of a job Edu has done in his role. There's been some good signings, some good signings on paper that haven't quite panned out, and some bad signings. It's really hard to tell though when you've got a manager that's struggled - because it'll make everyone, even the good players, look worse.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Panna King said:

Well he is at Arsenal whatever he is trying to do is not working. 

It's isn't working I agree. I want him to go.  But it's a bit harsh to call him useless. That's all I was saying I wasn't saying he was doing a good job

[LFCMadLad]

Dont worry you lot, you'll win tomorrow night. Klopp doesn't do domestic cups.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Honestly, I think whoever was going to come in after Wenger was going to have a hard time. Yeah, Wenger went stale and clearly lost his touch - but he's probably Arsenal's best manager ever, he's a club legend and also a legend to English football. I don't think Emery's a bad manager - but I also don't think he's the right manager to kick Arsenal onto the next level. He might take them far in cups, but once you get to the final that's always a bit of a crapshoot in most cases.

I also question whether Arsenal fans are patient enough to allow their next manager to build a side. Because when you look at Arsenal in the last years under Wenger, it does seem as though they lost their identity. When you look at Emery's Arsenal in most cases... they don't play with a cohesive identity. I mean... it doesn't help that Emery's been a bit shit tactically in the league. It will take time for a new manager to stamp his impression on the side and give them some character.

But just because I don't know if Arsenal fans are patient enough to wait... doesn't mean I think they need to be patient here with Emery. I think the on-pitch performances (not the results, just the performances), especially from this season, are not what I'd say indicate that this is the man for a long term project.

I think first things first, though, Arsenal need to bring in a sporting director with a track record of some success at some other club in Europe. 

I think when you look at managers you have to look at gradual improvement. Liverpool under klopp hasn't been a quick fix. But there has been gradual improvement. Last year was ridiculous. You didn't win it but you would have in all but 2 seasons in English League history. So although you didn't win the League you got there last year for me because the points total was so high. Sometimes you can even tolerate no improvment for a few years if you are trying to bring through youth or something because you know it will take time. However with Emery there is no sign what so ever that we will improve under him. His signings haven't been great and we don't appear to have improved. In fact I would say we are worse this year. So if he was sacked at the end of the season there can be no complaints from him I don't think. I am much more patient than most fans. I always said if we didn't improve in the first season he still needed another but I just don't think we will be any better at the end of the season. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I think when you look at managers you have to look at gradual improvement. Liverpool under klopp hasn't been a quick fix. But there has been gradual improvement. Last year was ridiculous. You didn't win it but you would have in all but 2 seasons in English League history. So although you didn't win the League you got there last year for me because the points total was so high. Sometimes you can even tolerate no improvment for a few years if you are trying to bring through youth or something because you know it will take time. However with Emery there is no sign what so ever that we will improve under him. His signings haven't been great and we don't appear to have improved. In fact I would say we are worse this year. So if he was sacked at the end of the season there can be no complaints from him I don't think. I am much more patient than most fans. I always said if we didn't improve in the first season he still needed another but I just don't think we will be any better at the end of the season. 

With Klopp he inherited a side that was absolute fucking crap and nowhere near as bad as you were ever under Wenger. But in his first season (which was a mid-season manager swap, which is never easy imo) we might not have always gotten the results we wanted... but the on pitch performances were SO MUCH BETTER than the shite Rodgers was serving us. And then after that season, it's just been gradual improvement to get us to where we are now.

Like you say, you can stomach not consistently getting results if you're seeing improvement on the pitch. But if you're getting poor results and poor performances... like we're seeing this year from Emery it becomes much tougher to say "yeah, give him more time - he just needs more time to make it right." 

He's still got the rest of the season to turn performances and results around... but the way he sets Arsenal up to play despite your side's obvious strengths in attack and obvious weaknesses at the back make me think it's unlikely he's going to have any big tactical revelation.

[Harry]

Am I the only one who didn't hate xhakas reaction? Ballsy I thought. Not the behaviour of a meek and unfit leader but showed a bit of fire in frustration. 

It was a mistake. For sure. And for sure he would be regretting it and apologise. But you'd really think he should never be Captain again from that behaviour...?

Arsenal aren't playing well but they're 5th and not in the worst shape of the usual "big 6". 

[LFCMadLad]

55 minutes ago, Harry said:

Am I the only one who didn't hate xhakas reaction? Ballsy I thought. Not the behaviour of a meek and unfit leader but showed a bit of fire in frustration. 

It was a mistake. For sure. And for sure he would be regretting it and apologise. 

That is a very contradictory post Harry. You think it was ballsy and showed he wasnt an unfit leader, then go on to say it was a mistake and he should apologise?

A captain should be the inspiration, the leader and the example. Do you think it shows a good example to the young players in the squad? Basically saying "well if the crowd give you a bit of stick, trudge off the pitch, throw your armband and shirt away and mock them back"?

Nah, he was a dick, he lost his head.

Our own captain has took his fair share of stick from some sections of the crowd over the years (totally undue btw), but you've never ever seen him act anything like that.

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by LFCMadLad

[True Blue]

No excuse for Xhaka, strip him of his captain armband and bench him until January. Sell him in January and make him an example on how not to conduct yourself. I wouldn't accept this in any professional club, if Emery wants to be the manager with authority he will do it. Knowing how Arsenal dealt with their captains lately he will probably start tonight.

Edited October 30, 2019 by True Blue

[Guest]

16 hours ago, 6666 said:

To be honest I didn't necessarily have an issue with how Xhaka reacted to the boos. You want someone who will stand up to it and back himself rather than someone who would be crushed by it. Emery saying he needs to apologise isn't a great move in my opinion but I guess it depends on how he apologises if he does.

If he was just annoyed to be taken of that would be fair and would show he is competitive. But slowly walking of when we are drawing at home and then swearing at the fans and cupping your ears isn't exceptable

[Guest]

1 hour ago, True Blue said:

No excuse for Xhaka, strip him of his captain armband and bench him until January. Sell him in January and make him an example on how not to conduct yourself. I wouldn't accept this in any professional club, if Emery wants to be the manager with authority he will do it. Knowing how Arsenal dealt with their captains lately he will probably start tonight.

I don't think you would get sold for that at any top professional club. Things like this happen and players aren't sold for it. Disciplined but not sold. 

Belerin seems like the most natural leader to me when I hear him talk perhaps he should be captain.

[True Blue]

48 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I don't think you would get sold for that at any top professional club. Things like this happen and players aren't sold for it. Disciplined but not sold. 

Belerin seems like the most natural leader to me when I hear him talk perhaps he should be captain.

Agreed on that, i know he won't be sold obviously but it would be a good option to have. Bellerin seems to like being an Arsenal player, his taste in dressing is horrible but he is an okay player.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Agreed on that, i know he won't be sold obviously but it would be a good option to have. Bellerin seems to like being an Arsenal player, his taste in dressing is horrible but he is an okay player.

My point though is that you said you wouldn't except it at any professional club but players aren't sold at any professional club for things like this. Or very rarely if they are. Paul scholes once refused to play once. He wasn't sold and that was under arguably the best manager ever.