Edinson Cavani Banned For 3 Games & Fined £100k

[DeadLinesman]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Nobody had said it’s ‘exactly the same’ have they. 

You said if Suarez deserved a ban, so did he. Ergo surely you think they’ve committed the exact same offence which is racially abusing someone? 
 

You’re not arsed about context or even the fact the words weren’t the same, just piling on because it’s United. It’s literally the only reason you’re arsed. 

[Cicero]

5 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

I’ll need to find the rest, but not tonight.

Yeah that's not enough in it for me as opposed to what Terry did. 

[Mpache]

Just for the record

Here is a map of afro-descendants in South America. Brazil speaks Portuguese so no idea if the culture is similar there. In Peru, black people love being called negro or negrito unless it's in a derogatory way. We're a very racist country so it goes either way, but in the context Cavani spoke in, I can assure you nobody would care because it's not offensive. It's the same in Colombia as far as I know. The culture is very similar up there.

As you can see Uruguay has a higher amount of Afro-descendants than Argentina and a fair amount higher too, so there is more context there.

Personally thought there was less in Mexico.

[The Artful Dodger]

Also worth mentioning that John Terry got a lesser ban than Suarez for calling someone a ‘fucking black cunt’. Liverpool are treated differently.

[DeadLinesman]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

But yeah, we should all look up to them.

Nobody has said ‘we should all look up to them’ have they.....

[Honey Honey]

It's just weird for any person to refer to someone's skin colour like this context, affectionate or not. Don't get any defence of it. You should be uncomfortable saying something like that. 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

22 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

You said if Suarez deserved a ban, so did he. Ergo surely you think they’ve committed the exact same offence which is racially abusing someone? 
 

You’re not arsed about context or even the fact the words weren’t the same, just piling on because it’s United. It’s literally the only reason you’re arsed. 

I said both should be banned, not they’re both guilty of the same thing. There are gradations of offence. Suarez’s was blatantly intentional racism, Cavani’s was not. In absolute honesty I think 3 games is a little harsh, 1 game seemed more appropriate. But it’s the hypocrisy of it all that gets me. I don’t remember Manchester United fans talking about how unfair it was that Suarez got an 8 game ban for the Evra fan and Terry got 4! 4, so Terry was half as bad as Suarez?

It just gives me further evidence that Liverpool are treated more harshly than any club by the FA.

[Spike]

That'll teach him to speak Spanish in ENGLAND, simple as lad.

[Spike]

10 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

It's just weird for any person to refer to someone's skin colour like this context, affectionate or not. Don't get any defence of it. You should be uncomfortable saying something like that. 

 

It shouldn't be weird at all, it shouldn't be stigmatised at all, because the stigma creates the implicit bias that being XYZ is wrong. Post-Racial society isn't tip toing around the subject being afraid of it,, the ultimate goal is acknowledgment of difference without bias.

Negrito also doesn't necessarily refer to black skin, it could be dark hair, dark eyes, a tan, etc. A person with dark hair in a family of blondes could be nicknamed 'negrito'.

[DeadLinesman]

8 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I said both should be banned, not they’re both guilty of the same thing. There are gradations of offence. Suarez’s was blatantly intentional racism, Cavani’s was not. In absolute honesty I think 3 games is a little harsh, 1 game seemed more appropriate. But it’s the hypocrisy of it all that gets me. I don’t remember Manchester United fans talking about how unfair it was that Suarez got an 8 game ban for the Evra fan and Terry got 4! 4, so Terry was half as bad as Suarez?

It just gives me further evidence that Liverpool are treated more harshly than any club by the FA.

And that’s fine, I’ve no issue with any of that. To start throwing in that all United fans think it’s not right and that it’s somehow special treatment is just wrong though. You know Liverpool have fans that are massive cunts as well? And Arsenal? And Chelsea? And every single other team out there? Twitter is space for absolute vapid bellends to air shite views with no recourse. And why would United fans as a whole get involved with John Terry? That’s like saying why weren't Hull fans out in force about Suarez. I genuinely didn’t even read into the Terry findings so I’m not going to comment on  an incident I know very little about.

[Mpache]

14 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

It's just weird for any person to refer to someone's skin colour like this context, affectionate or not. Don't get any defence of it. You should be uncomfortable saying something like that. 

 

Why though? If it's affectionate, why should they feel uncomfortable? I have friends who love being called negrito. There's much worse terms in Spanish. 'Cocodrilos' is one of the worst going.

[Spike]

31 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Also worth mentioning that John Terry got a lesser ban than Suarez for calling someone a ‘fucking black cunt’. Liverpool are treated differently.

Wasn't that tossed out in court? Can't remember honestly.

[The Artful Dodger]

Just now, Spike said:

Wasn't that tossed out in court? Can't remember honestly.

A criminal court but not the FA. The burden of proof is lower. Frankly, Terry’s defence was an absolute embarrassment.

[Spike]

Just now, Mpache said:

Why though? If it's affectionate, why should they feel uncomfortable? I have friends who love being called negrito. There's much worse terms in Spanish. 'Cocodrilos' is one of the worst going.

'negrito merda' as well is pretty bad as well. don't get people policing other's language really, it's quite arrogant

[Spike]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

A criminal court but not the FA. The burden of proof is lower. Frankly, Terry’s defence was an absolute embarrassment.

Gotcha, didn't really follow that whole nastiness. Still, I don't think Suarez or Terry are racist people, the latter being a thick cunt that was trying to get hot on the banter. And if Terry is ,he has a lot of teammates and fans he has to answer to. People often say things that aren't necessarily their true beliefs, like you and your prejudice against Americans.

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

'negrito merda' as well is pretty bad as well. don't get people policing other's language really, it's quite arrogant

Not only that but not every country has the same history of racism. I mentioned this once the BLM protests broke out. I thought it was stupid that it extended abroad, and I stand by that because it was an American issue. Racism is an issue everywhere but it's not the same history behind it.

South America has a lot of racist countries with Peru, Bolivia and Argentina being the worst for it, but again the history is different. Argentina and Bolivia barely have any afro-descendants so it's hard to judge their culture.

In Africa they do the same to whites as well, so again cultural relevancy IS important with context.

[Stan]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

People often say things that aren't necessarily their true beliefs, like you and your prejudice against Americans.

Debatable.

[The Artful Dodger]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

Gotcha, didn't really follow that whole nastiness. Still, I don't think Suarez or Terry are racist people, the latter being a thick cunt that was trying to get hot on the banter. And if Terry is ,he has a lot of teammates and fans he has to answer to. People often say things that aren't necessarily their true beliefs, like you and your prejudice against Americans.

I agree. It’s not about judging someone as a racist forever just their crime at that time. I think forgiveness and allowing people a second chance is one of the hallmarks of a civilised society. 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Mpache said:

Not only that but not every country has the same history of racism. I mentioned this once the BLM protests broke out. I thought it was stupid that it extended abroad, and I stand by that because it was an American issue. Racism is an issue everywhere but it's not the same history behind it.

South America has a lot of racist countries with Peru, Bolivia and Argentina being the worst for it, but again the history is different. Argentina and Bolivia barely have any afro-descendants so it's hard to judge their culture.

In Africa they do the same to whites as well, so again cultural relevancy IS important with context.

Yeah I can see that, in Australia I was hoping it would spark an individual movement for Indigenous Rights but instead people just co-opted the BLM name, which is a shame because it could have been a great time to spark their own movement with their own ideals and beliefs without any baggage that BLM already has to it's name.

[Spike]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Debatable.

That is why I used the word often, not always

[Spike]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I agree. It’s not about judging someone as a racist forever just their crime at that time. I think forgiveness and allowing people a second chance is one of the hallmarks of a civilised society. 

Rehabilitation is more civilised than punishment.

[Honey Honey]

47 minutes ago, Spike said:

It shouldn't be weird at all, it shouldn't be stigmatised at all, because the stigma creates the implicit bias that being XYZ is wrong. Post-Racial society isn't tip toing around the subject being afraid of it,, the ultimate goal is acknowledgment of difference without bias.

Negrito also doesn't necessarily refer to black skin, it could be dark hair, dark eyes, a tan, etc. A person with dark hair in a family of blondes could be nicknamed 'negrito'.

Just another rehash of the 80s flop "colour blindness". Implicit bias cannot be overcome by telling people to stop being racially conscious for the very reasons colour blindness failed. Discomfort is a necessary cognitive response to create racial consciousness in the first place. Identifying people by any particular trait can only lead to implicit bias because it makes that trait a salient part of identity. Black identity itself will not vanish to nothing ness in our lifetimes. It's here to stay.

[Redcanuck]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think I said this a while ago to @DeadLinesman - context is important and the context here isn’t racist but we’ve got a rule but probably a fine would be okay.

And then he told me there’s a minimum ban for shit like this, and I think it’s 3 matches.

So that’s harsh... but it’s also fair because that’s the rule.

Is it weird we expect foreign players to know what words might trigger racial sensitivity (although here it looks like NOBODY found it racially insensitive)? Yeah probably.

I understand it though. Maybe clubs need to give players a list of words they can’t say. Although a foreign player might be tempted to memorise all of the banned words?

A good rule of thumb though is if you’re in a different country with a different culture, you probably shouldn’t do things that could be easily misconstrued as highly offensive... even if it’s not offensive to you back home. Because they’re not going to know about your “home” culture and loads of people will think you’re being an offensive arsehole.

If you don’t believe me, go to America and say the word cunt loudly in public

Is there any country where you can say that word out loud?   

Years ago I was in a toilet in a pub in England and a guy asked me for a fag, luckily growing up in a British culture, I knew he meant a cigarette.  But that was back in the day when those of us in North America had a different meaning for that word.  

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

Is there any country where you can say that word out loud?   

Years ago I was in a toilet in a pub in England and a guy asked me for a fag, luckily growing up in a British culture, I knew he meant a cigarette.  But that was back in the day when those of us in North America had a different meaning for that word.  

Cunt? Yeah, loads of places. At least loads of places back in my neighborhood back home.

[Cicero]

Not so sure about Terry. 

Calling someone "Black Cunt" has some deeper rooted superior complex to it, whether or not he is mates with black people.