Bigbuckeye1976 Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Even though the Bundasliga routinely represents the UEFA Champions League and has been known to win the tournament, the world wide media treats the German top league as a "farmer's" league at best. How can a "farmer's" league consistently defeat top teams from the other Big 5 European Leagues. Are we bad, is it blind luck or is the Bundasliga for real.
Cicero Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 I think @Mpache & @Devil-Dick Willie can answer your question.
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 55 minutes ago, Cicero said: I think @Mpache & @Devil-Dick Willie can answer your question. I refuse to critique the Bundesliga any longer. Whether its a joke or valid criticism the members on here throw their toys in a pram when I do including personal insults. Please do not include me in this.
Cicero Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Mpache said: I refuse to critique the Bundesliga any longer. Whether its a joke or valid criticism the members on here throw their toys in a pram when I do including personal insults. Please do not include me in this.
Michael Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Bigbuckeye1976 said: Even though the Bundasliga routinely represents the UEFA Champions League and has been known to win the tournament, the world wide media treats the German top league as a "farmer's" league at best. How can a "farmer's" league consistently defeat top teams from the other Big 5 European Leagues. Are we bad, is it blind luck or is the Bundasliga for real. The Bundesliga is not treated like a "farmers league", it's just not given the credit it deserves in my opinion. But that is more due to marketing more than anything else. The English Premier League and the Spanish La Liga have been heavily marketed over the years and their leagues have generated millions through sponsorship. However, the Bundesliga has now proven itself to be an extremely strong league, easily among the top 2 leagues in Europe alongside the English Premier League. It's people like Mpache who will make asinine comments about others on here, claiming the followers of the Bundesliga throw their toys out of the pram, when we do nothing of the sort. All we do is respond to his daft comments, where he always knocks the Bundesliga, unfortunately he never gives any logical argument, yet all he comes up with are comments criticising the Bundesliga. At the start of last season, he claimed that Serie A is stronger than the Bundesliga, which anyone knows is a pile of rubbish and I told him so. He got proven wrong as usual, as the Bundesliga sides dominated Europe last season, with Bayern winning the Champions League and RB Leipzig reaching the semi finals. We have seen a similar pattern this season, as all 4 Bundesliga sides qualified from their respective Champions League groups, with Serie A table leaders Inter Milan finishing last in their group and getting knocked out, with Gladbach finishing 2nd in the same group and progressing. While Lazio are being absolutely destroyed by Bayern Munich as we speak, despite playing on their home ground in Rome. I am not even going to start with some of his other comments regarding Boateng never being that great or Upamecano not being good in Europe, when he was a star player for RB Leipzig in last seasons Champions League. The list goes on with his silly remarks, but anyway, I think it's best that he sticks to what he knows best, namely Peruvian football.
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Michael said: It's people like Mpache who will make asinine comments about others on here, claiming the followers of the Bundesliga throw their toys out of the pram, when we do nothing of the sort. All we do is respond to his daft comments, where he always knocks the Bundesliga, unfortunately he never gives any logical argument, yet all he comes up with are comments criticising the Bundesliga. Point proven.
Michael Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Mpache said: Point proven. Yes, point proven. You always make daft comments regarding the Bundesliga. You have been proven wrong numerous times as well. The case is closed really on that front, that's pretty obvious.
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Michael said: Yes, point proven. You always make daft comments regarding the Bundesliga. You have been proven wrong numerous times as well. The case is closed really on that front, that's pretty obvious. It's not though, you are deciding to close it because you've got a bunch of other German fans to back you up. Whatever comments I've made in the past have changed. It's a very strong league, but I can still pick out it's flaws and make valid criticism, not on here though as I get a mob of people attacking me regardless of what I say, and then I get pinned the blame with words put in my mouth. Hence why I'm sick of saying anything about the league. It's a shame because I think valid criticism should be condoned, if it's in a good way.
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Tbf we made Energy Drink Leipzig look pretty poor... and we're in relegation battling form so.... Nah, in all serious - I think it's stupid how people discount the Bundesliga sides in Europe, even if most people. At the same time, @Michael I'm not so sure I agree that getting into a pissing match over Bayern smashing Lazio meaning Serie A is very far behind German football... because I'm not sure that's true either. We're in the age of the haves and have nots, right now, and the Serie A did end up fucking itself over with all the blatant corruption of Calciopoli - which hurt it's elite sides. But it's still a very prestigious league with a lot of dangerous sides. I think comparing either of those leagues with Ligue 1, where I think the distance between the haves and the have nots appears to be staggering compared to the other leagues does both the Bundesliga and Serie A a disservice. Imo the "big 4" of leagues is the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, and the Bundesliga - in no order tbh. It's all cyclical. The Serie A was massive for most of my childhood. Then La Liga was considered the clear best league. Then the Premier League started flirting with using "THE BEST LEAGUE" as part of it's marketing because they could make a decent argument they had the best league. Now we're seeing German clubs show strength in Europe where clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, and even Energy Drink clubs are performing at a decent level. I also think Portuguese, Dutch, and French leagues are all pretty decent standard and good value as well - even if they're not as strong. At the end of the day, how a side does in Europe is made up of a lot of factors (and imo, one of those factors - how players react to the crowds doesn't even play into the tournaments this year) rather than the strength of the league. When Porto won it and then when we won it the year later... I don't think that meant Portugal and England had the 2 strongest leagues around at the time (imo Italy and Spain did).
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Dr. Gonzo said: Tbf we made Energy Drink Leipzig look pretty poor... and we're in relegation battling form so.... Nah, in all serious - I think it's stupid how people discount the Bundesliga sides in Europe, even if most people. At the same time, @Michael I'm not so sure I agree that getting into a pissing match over Bayern smashing Lazio meaning Serie A is very far behind German football... because I'm not sure that's true either. We're in the age of the haves and have nots, right now, and the Serie A did end up fucking itself over with all the blatant corruption of Calciopoli - which hurt it's elite sides. But it's still a very prestigious league with a lot of dangerous sides. I think comparing either of those leagues with Ligue 1, where I think the distance between the haves and the have nots appears to be staggering compared to the other leagues does both the Bundesliga and Serie A a disservice. Imo the "big 4" of leagues is the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, and the Bundesliga - in no order tbh. It's all cyclical. The Serie A was massive for most of my childhood. Then La Liga was considered the clear best league. Then the Premier League started flirting with using "THE BEST LEAGUE" as part of it's marketing because they could make a decent argument they had the best league. Now we're seeing German clubs show strength in Europe where clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, and even Energy Drink clubs are performing at a decent level. I also think Portuguese, Dutch, and French leagues are all pretty decent standard and good value as well - even if they're not as strong. At the end of the day, how a side does in Europe is made up of a lot of factors (and imo, one of those factors - how players react to the crowds doesn't even play into the tournaments this year) rather than the strength of the league. When Porto won it and then when we won it the year later... I don't think that meant Portugal and England had the 2 strongest leagues around at the time (imo Italy and Spain did). Besides Bayern they did poorly for most of the decade barring last year and 2013, this is why I criticized them. My opinion changed after the CL last year as it had a good reason to change. My argument regarding Roma's semi-final was no longer valid. I still think the league has flaws and I like to point them out, but what league doesn't have flaws? The Premier League I find recruits off reputation more than genuine quality, Manchester United are a big culprit. La Liga has a serious lack of balance within TV money which makes Barcelona and Real Madrid unfairly stronger than the rest. Serie A doesn't have the best offensive capabilities within their teams. Etc, etc.
Michael Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mpache said: It's not though, you are deciding to close it because you've got a bunch of other German fans to back you up. Whatever comments I've made in the past have changed. It's a very strong league, but I can still pick out it's flaws and make valid criticism, not on here though as I get a mob of people attacking me regardless of what I say, and then I get pinned the blame with words put in my mouth. Hence why I'm sick of saying anything about the league. It's a shame because I think valid criticism should be condoned, if it's in a good way. Stop playing the victim Mpache and yes the case is over, because you have been proven wrong several times. Of course you are entitled to have valid criticism of the Bundesliga teams, but when you make some silly comments, expect a response correcting you or even criticising you for it. Yes, valid criticism should be condoned and I think most people would agree with both of us on that point. Nobody is ganging up on you, I really think all the Bundesliga followers on here have some interesting and valid opinions. The only potential troll is the Haaland guy, but even he is harmless and he comes on with some funny quips here and there. It's good that you have changed your opinion after last season though, so props where it is due.
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Michael said: Stop playing the victim Mpache and yes the case is over, because you have been proven wrong several times. Of course you are entitled to have valid criticism of the Bundesliga teams, but when you make some silly comments, expect a response correcting you or even criticising you for it. Yes, valid criticism should be condoned and I think most people would agree with both of us on that point. Nobody is ganging up on you, I really think all the Bundesliga followers on here have some interesting and valid opinions. The only potential troll is the Haaland guy, but even he is harmless and he comes on with some funny quips here and there. If you don't want me to play the victim, don't make me the victim. That simple. Like I said my opinions on the league have changed and it's only cos of the CL campaign last year. I would be a massive hypocrite otherwise. I am not allowed to point out it's flaws though, because then personal insults are thrown around by 3 people. It's just tiring.
Devil-Dick Willie Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Tbf we made Energy Drink Leipzig look pretty poor... and we're in relegation battling form so.... Nah, in all serious - I think it's stupid how people discount the Bundesliga sides in Europe, even if most people. At the same time, @Michael I'm not so sure I agree that getting into a pissing match over Bayern smashing Lazio meaning Serie A is very far behind German football... because I'm not sure that's true either. We're in the age of the haves and have nots, right now, and the Serie A did end up fucking itself over with all the blatant corruption of Calciopoli - which hurt it's elite sides. But it's still a very prestigious league with a lot of dangerous sides. I think comparing either of those leagues with Ligue 1, where I think the distance between the haves and the have nots appears to be staggering compared to the other leagues does both the Bundesliga and Serie A a disservice. Imo the "big 4" of leagues is the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, and the Bundesliga - in no order tbh. It's all cyclical. The Serie A was massive for most of my childhood. Then La Liga was considered the clear best league. Then the Premier League started flirting with using "THE BEST LEAGUE" as part of it's marketing because they could make a decent argument they had the best league. Now we're seeing German clubs show strength in Europe where clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, and even Energy Drink clubs are performing at a decent level. I also think Portuguese, Dutch, and French leagues are all pretty decent standard and good value as well - even if they're not as strong. At the end of the day, how a side does in Europe is made up of a lot of factors (and imo, one of those factors - how players react to the crowds doesn't even play into the tournaments this year) rather than the strength of the league. When Porto won it and then when we won it the year later... I don't think that meant Portugal and England had the 2 strongest leagues around at the time (imo Italy and Spain did). I don't think Italy are on our or your level anymore, and haven't been for a long while. Juventus are solid, but repeatedly get dumped out by the first stiff opposition. Everyone else is window dressing. I also don't think you can say 'we're now seeing German clubs show strength" Bayern have been dominant for yonks. Dortmund were finalists 9 years ago. Schalke used to top groups over the likes of Arsenal.
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Mpache said: Besides Bayern they did poorly for most of the decade barring last year and 2013, this is why I criticized them. My opinion changed after the CL last year as it had a good reason to change. My argument regarding Roma's semi-final was no longer valid. I still think the league has flaws and I like to point them out, but what league doesn't have flaws? The Premier League I find recruits off reputation more than genuine quality, Manchester United are a big culprit. La Liga has a serious lack of balance within TV money which makes Barcelona and Real Madrid unfairly stronger than the rest. Serie A doesn't have the best offensive capabilities within their teams. Etc, etc. It's all cyclical tbh - based on a lot of different factors. One of the big factors is what league is the "big money" league. In the 90s-early 2000s, the Serie A probably could have had that same critique of "recruits more off reputation than genuine quality" - because they had good TV deals for the time in terms of international coverage and they could, thus, afford to get the more "proven" quality players. Real Madrid (especially) and Barcelona have always been forces in Spain (although I think Barca have had more years of struggle overall) - but they had a really recent golden age (at least in my lifetime) that their national team even benefitted from. Imo, the "biggest" leagues to me in my life have always been what I consider the "big 4" and I don't even know if that's actually true - it's really just my opinion based off how I've perceived things. Either way, I think if you're playing a side from one of those leagues in Europe, write them off at your own peril. Even after a big win in one leg - not like we've never seen massive turnarounds in Europe before. These are good leagues with good teams. We can debate how we'd rate them... and right now I'd probably rank England and Germany at the top. But It's all cyclical and they're all good leagues.
Michael Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Mpache said: Besides Bayern they did poorly for most of the decade barring last year and 2013, this is why I criticized them. My opinion changed after the CL last year as it had a good reason to change. My argument regarding Roma's semi-final was no longer valid. I still think the league has flaws and I like to point them out, but what league doesn't have flaws? The Premier League I find recruits off reputation more than genuine quality, Manchester United are a big culprit. La Liga has a serious lack of balance within TV money which makes Barcelona and Real Madrid unfairly stronger than the rest. Serie A doesn't have the best offensive capabilities within their teams. Etc, etc. Again I am sorry Mpache, this is your myopic assessment of Bayern over the years. Bayern have constantly been in the latter stages of the Champions League over the last 10 years. They were very unlucky in several semi-finals against Real Madrid, where if there was VAR at the time, Bayern would have probably been in the several more finals. Just go back and watch some of those games yourself and I am sure that if you are honest with yourself, you will agree.
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Michael said: Again I am sorry Mpache, this is your myopic assessment of Bayern over the years. Bayern have constantly been in the latter stages of the Champions League over the last 10 years. They were very unlucky in several semi-finals against Real Madrid, where if there was VAR at the time, Bayern would have probably been in the several more finals. Just go back and watch some of those games yourself and I am sure that if you are honest with yourself, you will agree. The first one was 5-0 on aggregate to Real Madrid. They got utterly destroyed. The 2nd semi-final was closer but that Real Madrid side was extremely underwhelming, so I can't help but think that Bayern (as well as the others who lost to them) dropped the ball on that one. I personally find it hard to judge a league if one team does well. If more do so, then fair enough. Roma reached the semi's a few years ago so that was my ammunition. Leipzig killed that point and I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
Spike Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Michael said: Again I am sorry Mpache, this is your myopic assessment of Bayern over the years. Bayern have constantly been in the latter stages of the Champions League over the last 10 years. They were very unlucky in several semi-finals against Real Madrid, where if there was VAR at the time, Bayern would have probably been in the several more finals. Just go back and watch some of those games yourself and I am sure that if you are honest with yourself, you will agree. the cunt wouldn't even be in this thread if you didn't dress him down about it
Mpache Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: It's all cyclical tbh - based on a lot of different factors. One of the big factors is what league is the "big money" league. In the 90s-early 2000s, the Serie A probably could have had that same critique of "recruits more off reputation than genuine quality" - because they had good TV deals for the time in terms of international coverage and they could, thus, afford to get the more "proven" quality players. Real Madrid (especially) and Barcelona have always been forces in Spain (although I think Barca have had more years of struggle overall) - but they had a really recent golden age (at least in my lifetime) that their national team even benefitted from. Imo, the "biggest" leagues to me in my life have always been what I consider the "big 4" and I don't even know if that's actually true - it's really just my opinion based off how I've perceived things. Either way, I think if you're playing a side from one of those leagues in Europe, write them off at your own peril. Even after a big win in one leg - not like we've never seen massive turnarounds in Europe before. These are good leagues with good teams. We can debate how we'd rate them... and right now I'd probably rank England and Germany at the top. But It's all cyclical and they're all good leagues. La Liga has been the best league this past decade in my opinion. Winning Europa and Champions League titles as well as reaching several finals besides RM and Barcelona, it's hard to dispute them. This next decade will be very different though.
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 I think on any given year, if you don't think Bayern Munich aren't a potential contender for the CL... I think you're mental. They're the elite side from Germany, I'd always expect them to be able to compete for it. Anyone still in the knockouts can still win it - but Bayern Munich are a side loaded with talent. Imo, it's between them, Citeh & PSG - but anyone in it can still win it. "The best team in Europe" on paper doesn't have to win the tournament, and many times the winner isn't close to the best side in Europe on paper (imo).
Spike Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 you freaks just have to agree that all leagues have ten metres of horseshit outside of the top and middling clubs. aah yes our brighton is so much better than alaves and mainz
Michael Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Tbf we made Energy Drink Leipzig look pretty poor... and we're in relegation battling form so.... Nah, in all serious - I think it's stupid how people discount the Bundesliga sides in Europe, even if most people. At the same time, @Michael I'm not so sure I agree that getting into a pissing match over Bayern smashing Lazio meaning Serie A is very far behind German football... because I'm not sure that's true either. We're in the age of the haves and have nots, right now, and the Serie A did end up fucking itself over with all the blatant corruption of Calciopoli - which hurt it's elite sides. But it's still a very prestigious league with a lot of dangerous sides. I think comparing either of those leagues with Ligue 1, where I think the distance between the haves and the have nots appears to be staggering compared to the other leagues does both the Bundesliga and Serie A a disservice. Imo the "big 4" of leagues is the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, and the Bundesliga - in no order tbh. It's all cyclical. The Serie A was massive for most of my childhood. Then La Liga was considered the clear best league. Then the Premier League started flirting with using "THE BEST LEAGUE" as part of it's marketing because they could make a decent argument they had the best league. Now we're seeing German clubs show strength in Europe where clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, and even Energy Drink clubs are performing at a decent level. I also think Portuguese, Dutch, and French leagues are all pretty decent standard and good value as well - even if they're not as strong. At the end of the day, how a side does in Europe is made up of a lot of factors (and imo, one of those factors - how players react to the crowds doesn't even play into the tournaments this year) rather than the strength of the league. When Porto won it and then when we won it the year later... I don't think that meant Portugal and England had the 2 strongest leagues around at the time (imo Italy and Spain did). Bayern destroying Lazio was just an extra example of the quality of some of the German clubs, of course that's not the sole reason that the Bundesliga is stronger than Serie. Juve and Inter are by most accounts better sides than Lazio for example. But I don't think that anyone can really deny that the Bundesliga is stronger than the Serie A. If you look at both the calibre of players in the Bundesliga as well as their success in Europe in recent seasons, then I think it's quite obvious to see that the Bundesliga clubs are stronger overall.
Dr. Gonzo Posted February 23, 2021 Posted February 23, 2021 Staff reminder: please don't be twats or I'll have to start doing things
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