Administrator Stan Posted June 1, 2021 Administrator Posted June 1, 2021 Bielsa. Pep. Moyes. Rodgers. Solskjaer.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 1, 2021 Subscriber Posted June 1, 2021 Solskjaer's inclusion is such a clear case of they wanted to have five nominees. He shouldn't really be on there because while there may be a case for him to be in the top five, there isn't one to say he was the number one so there's no point in nominating him. 5th. Rodgers deserves to be nominated but he bottled top four again and if this is a Premier League award then the FA Cup win doesn't factor in. 4th. Guardiola had an impressive season and you can never undersell a championship win, but at the same time, I think all he really had to do to win this title was to get City back to average or better form for the rest of the season. They have the best squad and the most expensive players, there wasn't really any excuse not to come 1st in a season where nobody else was particularly brilliant. Certainly wouldn't say this Man City campaign is up there with the 2018 and 2019 title wins. 3rd. Moyes has had a very good season and deserves a lot of credit. Got the maximum out of his side and over the course of 38 games was able to outperform teams that should have finished ahead of them. He seems to have a rather niche and specific set of circumstances where he's able to perform incredibly well in pushing mid-table sides on to the next level and European qualification. When there's a team that could go either way, he's able to identify their strengths and weaknesses and get them to play into their own hands more often than not. I don't want him pigeon-holed as a defensive or old-fashioned manager either. West Ham have played positive but measured attacking football on many occasions this season, as did many of his later Everton sides, which he didn't get enough credit for at the time. I think this award is about how much you're able to exceed expectations which makes it hard for managers who are expected to compete for and win the title to be at the top of that criteria, but we've seen it happen a lot from Klopp and Guardiola in recent seasons. This season, with the lack of quite such exceptional performance from the title contenders, I think it swings back to those sides in the middle of the table, but Moyes just misses out on top spot for me. 2nd. I think Bielsa will suffer slightly in the voting and opinion here from the fact that Leeds saved their best run of the season to the very end and these conversations started before they poked their heads into the top half. I think there's a significant difference in perception between sneaking into the top half and finishing a still very impressive 11th-12th for a newly promoted side. Even though I've been critical on a couple of occasions this season, most notably the heavy defeat at Man Utd, of the one-dimensional approach to football matches (and I stand by that criticism for the most part), I believe that over the course of the season, he should get extra credit, not less, for the manner in which his team has played. It's a results business, but he got the results this season, it wasn't a trade-off for Leeds, it was the best way for them to play. Not style vs substance, but a desirable style alongside the more important desirable results. Expectations were higher for Leeds this season than most promoted sides because of the club's reputation and the manager's, but they shouldn't really have been by that much. Very few of their players had that much, if any, experience in the top flight and I think people underestimate just how easy it would have been for things to go the other way with a squad like that, even when the quality is clearly there. Still, they exceeded those heightened expectations and finished in the top half, I think it's enough to give Bielsa the top spot. 1st.
Administrator Stan Posted June 1, 2021 Author Administrator Posted June 1, 2021 Confused as to how Moyes gets 2nd with your logic but Bielsa eclipses it, despite Moyes threatening top 4 all season and Bielsa/Leeds only just getting in to top half towards end of the season?
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 1, 2021 Subscriber Posted June 1, 2021 44 minutes ago, Stan said: Confused as to how Moyes gets 2nd with your logic but Bielsa eclipses it, despite Moyes threatening top 4 all season and Bielsa/Leeds only just getting in to top half towards end of the season? Depends if you care more about what West Ham/Leeds looked like they were going to do for most of the season, or what they actually did over the course of the whole season.
Administrator Stan Posted June 1, 2021 Author Administrator Posted June 1, 2021 1 minute ago, RandoEFC said: Depends if you care more about what West Ham/Leeds looked like they were going to do for most of the season, or what they actually did over the course of the whole season. Not to make it sound like a slant on Leeds/Bielsa, but given that many people underestimated Moyes/West Ham and had them nowhere near top 4 at the start of the season I think for Moyes to achieve what he has done outweighs what a vastly experienced, highly-rated Marcelo Bielsa did/is doing at Leeds. West Ham might have dropped off a tiny bit towards the end of the season, but getting to where they did and maintaining their position for a very long time in the top 6 when many thought they'd be hovering outside of it (at the very best) is a very good achievement.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 1, 2021 Subscriber Posted June 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Stan said: Not to make it sound like a slant on Leeds/Bielsa, but given that many people underestimated Moyes/West Ham and had them nowhere near top 4 at the start of the season I think for Moyes to achieve what he has done outweighs what a vastly experienced, highly-rated Marcelo Bielsa did/is doing at Leeds. West Ham might have dropped off a tiny bit towards the end of the season, but getting to where they did and maintaining their position for a very long time in the top 6 when many thought they'd be hovering outside of it (at the very best) is a very good achievement. I agree, Moyes could have walked this in another year, I've highlighted a number of reasons why he deserves a lot of credit and he'll probably be the popular choice. But Leeds finished just 6 points behind West Ham by the end of the season with largely the same squad as they had in the Championship, and the boldness in the approach and the way they played earns them enough bonus credit in my opinion to tip the scales. It is close though, and I don't think just because Bielsa has a long and impressive CV should count against him. It isn't a guarantee for a successful season, see Mourinho/Ancelotti.
Danny Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 How is Ole on there?? I don’t think you can put Bielsa as manager of the season considering the absolute spankings they’ve taken this season. Has to be Moyes and if you include the FA Cup in this (assuming they don’t) Rodgers too
Administrator Stan Posted June 1, 2021 Author Administrator Posted June 1, 2021 It's a league award so as much as I'd be delighted if Rodgers did win it, it really wouldn't be fitting. Moyes or Guardiola would be more deserving of it. If other competitions come in to it you'd think Tuchel would be included for getting Chelsea up to top 4 and winning the CL... Ole is on there because he's taken Man Utd to 2nd. Literally best of the rest after Man City's cheat-code strategy to spend obscene amounts and see what 'success' they're left with. I know it's the in-thing to hate on Ole (I'm not his biggest fan) but he's still taken Man Utd to 2nd place and relatively comfortably given how early they secured that. He shouldn't win the award, but it's quite clear to see why he has made the cut, so to speak.
DeadLinesman Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, Stan said: I know it's the in-thing to hate on Ole (I'm not his biggest fan) but he's still taken Man Utd to 2nd place and relatively comfortably given how early they secured that. He shouldn't win the award, but it's quite clear to see why he has made the cut, so to speak. I won’t praise him from the rooftops. He’s tactically inept and has trouble adapting mid game. However, not one person had him down for getting United to second. Seems getting third was a fluke, now we’re second because the rest were terrible. I can’t seem to recall anyone telling City, Liverpool Chelsea et al that they only won stuff or came higher than United because United were bad. It’s laughable really. If you made a list of the 20 managers, people would still put him last.
Lucas Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 Just like to point out that I never usually plump for anyone Leeds related if they have been nominated for anything purely to avoid bias but to remain fair. However, I really think Marcelo deserves it here. We've been one of the best sides to watch full stop this season with what was essentially a Championship level squad for the most part. The team hasn't changed much at all. We've taken criticism for our defensive frailties, sometimes fair, other times not so much and yet, we've gradually got tighter at the back, mainly thanks to getting Llorente back for the final third of the season. So much so, we have actually ended the campaign with one of the best defensive home records in the division with a 19 year old kid keeper that's grown as the season has developed. We've had people like Harrison, Dallas, Raphinha, Klich, Rodrigo (near the end of the season) all chipping in with goals and helping take the pressure off of Bamford. That typifies what we are about. We lost Koch and Llorente for large parts of the season, Rodrigo too, so we've had to do a lot of it without our main summer buys. Alioski has pretty much filled in at LB all season and he's a midfielder. Dallas has played four different positions, we've even moved Pascal Struijk as an emergency centre back at times. I don't think people realise how adaptable we've had to be, simply because we're well trained in doing so. It's been a real team effort from front to back, been an absolute dream of a season really, couldn't have gone any better. If the season lasted a couple more games, you'd have been daft to bet against us getting Europe, we were so close to that. The key will be the second season I know, but I think we'll be well prepped for it. I totally get the media love in has made some fans sick of hearing it but you have to admire what we have done and we've also done it without relying on fanstoo which could have really hindered us. Sheffield United lived off the home atmosphere's in their first season and we'd have done the same but we never had that advantage. Personally I think we've been a massive breath of fresh air to the league from the norm and I'm not sure if we'll see that again for a while from a newly promoted side that offers substance with style.
Administrator Stan Posted June 1, 2021 Author Administrator Posted June 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lucas said: Personally I think we've been a massive breath of fresh air to the league from the norm and I'm not sure if we'll see that again for a while from a newly promoted side that offers substance with style. Brentford @Danny?
DeadLinesman Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lucas said: I totally get the media love in has made some fans sick of hearing it but you have to admire what we have done and we've also done it without relying on fanstoo which could have really hindered us. I think that was the problem. There were a few games where you got dicked, yet the media just continued to praise attacking Leeds rather than laugh at your inability to defend.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 1, 2021 Subscriber Posted June 1, 2021 People aren't reacting because 'Ole is shit' or 'everyone hates United'. This is a list of nominees for the Manager of the Year award. He isn't a genuine contender for that in anyone's book so he shouldn't really be on the list. But if they insist upon having a 5th man on there because that's the format they decided to go with, then fine, I don't have any issue with saying he's been the 5th best manager this season. Call me old-fashioned, but I'd personally prefer them to just have four candidates if there are only four that are realistic, so it's perfectly reasonable for people to question why he's on the list without having some agenda because he simply isn't a contender for the award, and nor is anyone else really other than the other 4 candidates.
Danny Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stan said: Brentford @Danny? I think you could throw Sheffield United into that as well, considering the lack of finances they’ve had compared to Leeds when spending in the top flight. I would love to say we will add the same, and if our time in the Championship is anything to go by then I think we may leave our mark but tbh all I’m focused on is safety.
Danny Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 I think it’s just a bit obvious that taking Manchester United to a 74 points total is not manager of the year stuff. Ole has completely proven his worth as a coach and that is completely seperate, but he hasn’t done anything that special in the league when you take into account the players they’ve got. I don’t think there should be anyone other than Moyes and Pep in the conversation, Rodgers if you take domestic trophies into account.
Lucas Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: I think that was the problem. There were a few games where you got dicked, yet the media just continued to praise attacking Leeds rather than laugh at your inability to defend. Yes, maybe they did go overboard and it made a few people sick, I can appreciate that. But I think it also says something when you have so many pundits in the game quick to praise us. It wouldn't matter which platform, Sky, BT, BBC etc, it genuinely were glowing reviews and I think now the season has ended, perhaps those people pissed off by the Leeds love in have come to realise that the praise should now be generally warranted.
DeadLinesman Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 If there’s no agenda, why is Rodgers on there? Is he genuinely a contender for manager of the year? Finished outside the top 4 after being there all season. Why’s he been nominated again? The FA Cup isn’t about the league. Doesn’t fit the rhetoric though.
Subscriber Dan+ Posted June 1, 2021 Subscriber Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Danny said: How is Ole on there?? I don’t think you can put Bielsa as manager of the season considering the absolute spankings they’ve taken this season. Has to be Moyes and if you include the FA Cup in this (assuming they don’t) Rodgers too Propaganda. Like most of these awards.
DeadLinesman Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Danny said: I think it’s just a bit obvious that taking Manchester United to a 74 points total is not manager of the year stuff. Ole has completely proven his worth as a coach and that is completely seperate, but he hasn’t done anything that special in the league when you take into account the players they’ve got. I don’t think there should be anyone other than Moyes and Pep in the conversation, Rodgers if you take domestic trophies into account. I can part agree with this, but did anyone see United finishing second? You can’t have your cake and eat it. Either United are shit and not finishing second or Ole has done alright, better than expected etc. I get he’s not manager of the year, I’m not that stupid. Like you said, it’s Pep or Moyes. Personally Pep has done the bare minimum with that squad. If anything, he underachieves almost every season.
Azeem Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 What's this argument 'given the players he had' this isn't like a Karate Kid movie, turning a fatso into dragon warrior.
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: I can part agree with this, but did anyone see United finishing second? You can’t have your cake and eat it. Either United are shit and not finishing second or Ole has done alright, better than expected etc. I get he’s not manager of the year, I’m not that stupid. Like you said, it’s Pep or Moyes. Personally Pep has done the bare minimum with that squad. If anything, he underachieves almost every season. I think most people saw United finishing second for the last few months tbh. I think Solksjaer has done alright, but it’s a bit hard to judge him on the strength of this season because on the face of it, City just ran away with the league and left everyone in their dust. It’s hard to judge whether you’ve improved or not this season. We’re all pretty much in agreement that Liverpool had a poor season - yet we came in 3rd just 5 points below you in the best post-SAF season for United? Maybe it’s that this is a tough season for everyone and if City didn’t have two first team quality squads to call upon they wouldn’t look so far ahead of everyone else. Or maybe below City, everyone in the league is a bit shit. I think it’s hard to fault Solksjaer - yet also hard to praise him. 26 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: If there’s no agenda, why is Rodgers on there? Is he genuinely a contender for manager of the year? Finished outside the top 4 after being there all season. Why’s he been nominated again? The FA Cup isn’t about the league. Doesn’t fit the rhetoric though. He doesn’t belong in contention imo.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted June 1, 2021 Subscriber Posted June 1, 2021 30 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: If there’s no agenda, why is Rodgers on there? Is he genuinely a contender for manager of the year? Finished outside the top 4 after being there all season. Why’s he been nominated again? The FA Cup isn’t about the league. Doesn’t fit the rhetoric though. Which is a bigger over achievement in terms of league finish, Man Utd finishing 2nd or Leicester finishing 5th just outside the Champions League spots? I don't get why you're getting so touchy over this. Maybe some idiots on Twitter are saying Ole is shit or something but nobody's saying that on here. All that's been said is that he isn't a contender for the award, and he isn't, do you disagree? I'm also yet to see anyone in this thread say that Rodgers should win it, so you could make a case that if Solskjaer doesn't belong there then nor does Rodgers, but I think he's quite a bit closer to the conversation. I don't see your issue either with people trying to take credit away from Solskjaer by saying everyone else was shit. Well, they were. To finish lower than Chelsea, who were so bad they had to change their manager, or Liverpool, who didn't turn up for two months of the season, would have been an absolute calamity for Man Utd this season. I don't think you'll disagree. That's not me saying that Man Utd only finished 2nd because everyone else was shit for some agenda or 'rhetoric'. That's just taking the context of the season into account. I don't think 2nd is really an over achievement for you this season, I think the other four managers on the list finished above expectations with the exception of Guardiola who won the league. It doesn't mean Ole is shit, it doesn't have to be black or white, achieving "par" in the Premier League is probably enough to get you in the top five after you take out all of the managers who haven't done the full season. Dean Smith is the only one I can think of who you could argue could be the 5th man instead of Solskjaer, I hope you don't think that I've been fooled by the rhetoric!
DeadLinesman Posted June 1, 2021 Posted June 1, 2021 Can’t even be arsed. It’s why I tend to not discuss anything remotely related to United anymore because you’re not allowed an opinion. I’m out.
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