Terrorist Attack at London Bridge & Borough Market

[Harry]

I can't see why this would be the headline you'd lead with even from a clickbait perspective... 

[Fairy In Boots]

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Afghans don't either tbh. It's the Arab Muslim countries that are more into the full blown veil over the headscarf rather than Pashtos & Persians. I also don't know for certain, but I think Egypt (which is Arab) would have more headscarves than full veils. Pre-1979 you'd see much fewer veils in Iran as it was fairly secular... as opposed to being mandatory like it is now.

Under Taliban rule Afghanistan had widespread use of the full veil, I'd imagine parts of Sinai Egypt are prominent veil areas now to. 

In other news what do you think about the video of CNN stage managing a bunch of Muslims to protest against the killings for their news segment? Surely you must agree that a news station orchestrating a protest is not accurately reporting the news

[Honey Honey]

The ringleader had been kicked out of the local mosque, reported to police twice, appeared on a channel 4 documentary praying to an ISIS flag and above all else he was yet another miserable Arsenal fan.

[Panna King]

57 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

The ringleader had been kicked out of the local mosque, reported to police twice, appeared on a channel 4 documentary praying to an ISIS flag and above all else he was yet another miserable Arsenal fan.

He was born in Watford, Hertfordshire.   

 

 

 

[Fairy In Boots]

13 minutes ago, VanPanna said:

He was born in Watford, Hertfordshire.   

 

 

 

First 5 minutes and Abu Ramasha who runs a bouncy castle business, is one of Britain's biggest hate preachers. We're all indirectly funding this mess, I have been non halal now for two years, I only use none Muslim taxis fuck it i'm not contributing to this gaggle of cunts, peaceful moderates are collateral damage.

[Panna King]

15 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

First 5 minutes and Abu Ramasha who runs a bouncy castle business, is one of Britain's biggest hate preachers. We're all indirectly funding this mess, I have been non halal now for two years, I only use none Muslim taxis fuck it i'm not contributing to this gaggle of cunts, peaceful moderates are collateral damage.

Abu Ramasha traveled to Syria to fight for ISIS while his friends who also have the same extreme views are still walking the streets in London.   Most of the extreme Islamics are claiming of the state,  Anjem Choudary called it Jihadi state money.    

[Honey Honey]

26 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

First 5 minutes and Abu Ramasha who runs a bouncy castle business, is one of Britain's biggest hate preachers. We're all indirectly funding this mess, I have been non halal now for two years, I only use none Muslim taxis fuck it i'm not contributing to this gaggle of cunts, peaceful moderates are collateral damage.

You remind me of a racist BNP member I used to work with who refused to go on the staff night out to an Indian restaurant because in his words "it's encouraging them [immigrants]"

No doubt you got your paranoid irrational idea to go "non halal" from the flirting with the same far right circles.

[Fairy In Boots]

2 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

You remind me of a racist BNP member I used to work with who refused to go on the staff night out to an Indian restaurant because in his words "it's encouraging them [immigrants]"

No doubt you got your paranoid irrational idea to go "non halal" from the flirting with the same far right circles.

Nah It's from the Sikh run non Halal dinning group actually, I go to genuine Sikh or Indian restaurants in Brum now. Food's actually much nicer and they serves beer on tap, some great beer & tandoori places up here. I stopped with Halal because I read a report a few years back in which the British Zakat foundation had been unable to prove that the charity hadn't been funding extremist mosques in the UK and terrorism in the Middle east.  Because of the alms giving side of Islam, and the British Zakat foundation being in charge of 90% of this practice in the UK I figured i'd not contribute until it was proven this wasn't the case. I know and Iranian guy who like me boycotts, he just buys a load of hot meals for a homeless shelter in Brum once a year. In fairness to Islam Zakat isn't the only charitable racket in town, when I do charity i cut out the charities themselves, I save up all the free shampoo from hotels I stay at with work and donate them at Christmas to a homeless shelter as they have a hairdresser come in.

Plus on Halal part of my job involves abattoir visits if you see religious slaughter it's a bit barbaric for this day & age, I'd also boycott Kosher. A few Halal gaffs i've been to have been reported a few times as awful standards. Jhatka I've not personally seen but the brief research i've done it seems less stressful for the animal as the severing of the head should be instantaneous. You will laugh but my sister is a veggie Corbynista so I was onto the secular food tip years before I went down the rabbit hole of counter jihad.

[Panflute]

2 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

The ringleader had been kicked out of the local mosque, reported to police twice, appeared on a channel 4 documentary praying to an ISIS flag and above all else he was yet another miserable Arsenal fan.

Despite all of that, the guy managed to stay under the radar, but for some reason the government needs to be allowed to intercept all your communication and monitor your internet behaviour. Trust them, it'll make the UK safer. 

[Honey Honey]

21 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Nah It's from the Sikh run non Halal dinning group actually, I go to genuine Sikh or Indian restaurants in Brum now. Food's actually much nicer and they serves beer on tap, some great beer & tandoori places up here. I stopped with Halal because I read a report a few years back in which the British Zakat foundation had been unable to prove that the charity hadn't been funding extremist mosques in the UK and terrorism in the Middle east.  Because of the alms giving side of Islam, and the British Zakat foundation being in charge of 90% of this practice in the UK I figured i'd not contribute until it was proven this wasn't the case. I know and Iranian guy who like me boycotts, he just buys a load of hot meals for a homeless shelter in Brum once a year. In fairness to Islam Zakat isn't the only charitable racket in town, when I do charity i cut out the charities themselves, I save up all the free shampoo from hotels I stay at with work and donate them at Christmas to a homeless shelter as they have a hairdresser come in.

Plus on Halal part of my job involves abattoir visits if you see religious slaughter it's a bit barbaric for this day & age, I'd also boycott Kosher. A few Halal gaffs i've been to have been reported a few times as awful standards. Jhatka I've not personally seen but the brief research i've done it seems less stressful for the animal as the severing of the head should be instantaneous. You will laugh but my sister is a veggie Corbynista so I was onto the secular food tip years before I went down the rabbit hole of counter jihad.

That's all fair enough on meat. But taxis aren't made of meat. You were implying you won't buy anything what so ever supplied by a muslim.

[Panflute]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-internet-regulated-london-bridge-terror-attack-google-facebook-whatsapp-borough-security-a7771896.html

And of course!

No matter they can't catch guys who wave ISIS flags from their windows; surely hoarding even more useless data will prevent this from happening again.

Throw that cheap imitation of Thatcher in the rubbish along with all the other useless scrap.

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

The ringleader had been kicked out of the local mosque, reported to police twice, appeared on a channel 4 documentary praying to an ISIS flag and above all else he was yet another miserable Arsenal fan.

Wasn't Osama Bin Laden also an Arsenal fan? And that bloke Mo?

When you've got someone kicked out of the local mosque for being a dangerous butter and reported to the police twice... I think at some point there's police culpability here.

It's not their fault he was a terrorist, but it is their fault it's 2017 and they're not doing anything about a known terrorist.

I honestly think I'm one of the more tolerant ones on here, since I don't like to go around painting whole minorities with the same brush, but if the police have proven unwilling to proactively go after terror suspects until they strike... maybe we do need the army to police Britain on the terror threat.

And fuck Theresa May saying she should regulate the internet for this. It's like she read my criticism of Twitter and Facebook letting these jihadis organise and radicalise and said "yes let's clamp down on that" - I think Twitter and Facebook should clamp down on it themselves out of their social and moral obligation. As things stand now, anytime an attack is planned on WhatsApp & promoted and celebrated on Facebook and Twitter, I can't help but feel Twitter and Mark Zuckerberg are tacitly supporting and condoning jihad.

Which isn't to take any of the blame from these people who are doing these dispicable acts. They are subhuman scum in my books.

[Honey Honey]

What are the Police supposed to do? They can't charge someone for a thought crime. They can only get someone when they've incited violence with their speech. A judge isn't going to prosecute someone because a mosque kicked them out for saying something they didn't like. There's no crime there.

Under the moral code that we have established off the back of a dark history, the strategy can only be community led intervention and intelligence led prevention. More informed minds than mine will know where that needs tweaking for improvement and the government should support them, not waste time pushing through the 16th spying bill since 2001. Theresa May is using another spying bill as a visible sign of action because the real work is invisible in the community interventions and intelligence. It is difficult for Joe public to know how to remain grounded and rational when they can't assess what they can't see. That is why we end up with nobody's becoming experts on what to do after every attack, they think there is a void here that needs filling and they give it a go whilst they are in a state of hysteria. 

[Panna King]

I think the problem is, there is well known people that are very extreme towards a type of Islamic ideology,  is that an arrestable offence?  as the police do monitor them and track their movements but I suppose not much can be done unless they actually go out and commit an attack, then it is too late.  Very difficult situation, unless you cull all Islamic followers. 

[Dave]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/05/six-people-missing-london-bridge-terror-attack/

Heartbreaking article. The pain those family members and friends must be going through for the ID proceadure to commence must be unimaginable.

Im sure a lot of members here would have been in the barrowboy and banker at some point before an away game against a London club. Really shows the importance of being vigilant at this time.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, HoneyNUFC said:

What are the Police supposed to do? They can't charge someone for a thought crime. They can only get someone when they've incited violence with their speech. A judge isn't going to prosecute someone because a mosque kicked them out for saying something they didn't like. There's no crime there.

Under the moral code that we have established off the back of a dark history, the strategy can only be community led intervention and intelligence led prevention. More informed minds than mine will know where that needs tweaking for improvement and the government should support them, not waste time pushing through the 16th spying bill since 2001. Theresa May is using another spying bill as a visible sign of action because the real work is invisible in the community interventions and intelligence. It is difficult for Joe public to know how to remain grounded and rational when they can't assess what they can't see. That is why we end up with nobody's becoming experts on what to do after every attack, they think there is a void here that needs filling and they give it a go whilst they are in a state of hysteria. 

Isn't terrorism a crime? So arrest them on the suspision of terrorism.

[Panna King]

Khurram Butt and Rachid Redouane are named as 2 of the 3 attackers. 

[Panna King]

[Stan]

Just now, Cannabis said:

Look like a lovely pair. 

Must be hard having a name of Shazad Butt though, he must have taken some stick.

bet he was a right pain in the arse

[SirBalon]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Isn't terrorism a crime? So arrest them on the suspision of terrorism.

And what is "suspicion" gonna get you as a punishment mate?

On top of that they'll only use their term time to convert other imbeciles that tend to frequent prisons. 

[Panna King]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

And what is "suspicion" gonna get you as a punishment mate?

On top of that they'll only use their term time to convert other imbeciles that tend to frequent prisons. 

Thats right, unless you cull Islam on a whole, that is the only way to stop it. Its pretty impossible to police this. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

41 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

And what is "suspicion" gonna get you as a punishment mate?

On top of that they'll only use their term time to convert other imbeciles that tend to frequent prisons. 

I don't know, I think detaining someone flying a fucking ISIS flag and interrogating them as to who else is in on their pro-ISIS bullshit then gives you a potential terror ring to investigate. And that shit to me indicates a reason to way over normal surveillance of criminals, because a terror ring in Europe is proven to be a serious matter to the public. And then when you've got evidence of a conspiracy to commit a terror plot from the surveillance, you're in a better position to do something.

I don't think it's beyond unreasonable to treat suspected terrorists a bit worse than your average criminal suspect. Sure it will likely lead to a lot of racial profiling and a few innocent people being put through an unpleasant process. But at this point, if we're sitting by, idle, while mosques are banning people for being extremists, neighbors are calling to say "this tosser is flying a fucking ISIS flag," and people who know the guy are trying to tell the authorities "there's something suspicious about this guy" and we're not going to do a fucking thing because the attitude is "well we can't"... then I don't know how we can be surprised when these extremist cunts we've been warned about go do something barbaric and stupid.

Anyone who's known me posting on TFF and here knows that I don't think it's right to paint all Muslims or immigrants from Muslim majority countries with the same brush as these extremists. But the idea that we fucking do nothing different in the policing and keeping the public safe is insane. In these two recent attacks we've seen the attackers been called out within 1.) his own Muslim community, 2.) the general community. These were people on the map. If we're asking for communities to stand up against extremism, they do, and the extremists that have been reported and are on the map aren't stopped... clearly it's a policy that needs fixing. And resources need to be diverted to combatting terror on our streets.

We aren't at war with Islam. But we are war with radical Islam. The warzone can, unfortunately, be anywhere. And their combatants target our innocents. Europe cannot sit idly by while zealots kill innocent people - and if that means suspending certain rights to allow for detention that would otherwise not be allowed for terror suspects for a brief period & giving some innocent people a temporary inconvenience... so be it. This is war. War calls for sacrifice.

Having said all that though, fuck making sacrifices to online privacy. Fuck Theresa May for using this attack as an excuse to further a surveillance system that has been completely useless in preventing terror or crime. I'm sure the mass data collection of the west is used more for political purposes more than anything - because it sure as fuck has not contributed to the safety of the West in any way, shape, or form.

[Honey Honey]

One of the neighbours of the Arsenal shirt wearing attacker said he spoke to him on the day of the FA Cup final about Wenger and he said he wanted him to stay.

There we go, couldn't be more radicalized than that.

[Fairy In Boots]

9 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

That's all fair enough on meat. But taxis aren't made of meat. You were implying you won't buy anything what so ever supplied by a muslim.

Not if i can help it, it's down to Zakat.  Have you ever looked into the largest NGO's that collect Zakat the compulsory alms giving of 2.5% of a Muslims wealth to charity in the UK?  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/31/charities-linked-terrorism-record-high-extremists-pose-deadly/

Islamic Relief which is the big one by me, Cameron praised them, and HSBC dumped them in 2016 because they believed that they were supporting Hamas.

 https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/islamic_relief_worldwide_irw_/

There's a few incidents on the Ngo watch link.

I was wrong earlier when I said the Nzf dealt with 90%, I thought it was donate to Nzf who donated to the various charities (which they do) but a lot seems to go direct. I just stopped a few years back where possible and haven't bothered digging deeper. Obviously from time to time they do get my money, if they have shares in a company i use etc they'll benefit, pissed up i'll jump in a taxi although I try to get an Hindu or Sikh out of prefrance. Probably sounds like a massive racist but it's not, it's a conscious decision to not contribute where possible, it's not the Muslim's fault, it's their NGO's infested with radicalism and the fact one of the tenants of Zakat calls for it to be distributed for the purposes of Jihad. I'd rather not contribute to something that is causing so much grief. Yes i'd stop paying tax in protest if i could to.

 If it's any consolation i'm like that with money, I watch where I spend it, for example i don't use sports direct because I don't like Mike Ashley. I don't use Starbucks or Amazon because they're tax dodging cunts. I only buy fair trade fruit and I actually get milk delivered which costs more but I believe in supporting local farmers, from whom I buy Veg and eggs.  I'm all for responsibly sourced fish and green products, I actually boycott Cadbury's over what Kraft and Mondelez have done, just a quirk of mine i suppose.

[Honey Honey]