True Blue 971 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Depends on will he do a Conte or will he try to solve things and get the team playing better. It is easy to change managers but it is hard to change the core of the dressing room. Even in the Roman era the players were at times showing player power and stopped performing under a certain manager and when we change managers all the sudden we are prime Brazil. The players that want to leave should be allowed to, obviously we can't replace 8-9 players but at least the one's that are on huge wages and want a way out. If the last performance was a rebellion against Tuchel then they can all fuck off, you are a professional footballer not a toddler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,407 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Cicero said: Of those players though who do you think is actually good enough to play for us? Whilst Timo Werner is not the ice cold finisher people had hoped for, Chelsea's better football at the end of the season came because he was doing a good role on the left hand side helping to get the best out of Havertz and Mount. Christian Pulisic had his moments under Frank Lampard and Marcos Alonso is a fine rotational option given we will be having five substitutes next season. Cesar Azpilicueta has also been a fantastic servant to the club and absolutely would still have a role to play in a 50+ game season. For the four of them, plus Christiansen, Lukaku, Rudiger etc leaving and the likes of Jorginho and Kante yet to commit to new contracts shows what a sloppy shop Tuchel is running over there at the moment Having that many players disinterested only ends one way. It's a lot easier to replace the manager than it is to replace as many players that want to leave Chelsea at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: Whilst Timo Werner is not the ice cold finisher people had hoped for, Chelsea's better football at the end of the season came because he was doing a good role on the left hand side helping to get the best out of Havertz and Mount. Christian Pulisic had his moments under Frank Lampard and Marcos Alonso is a fine rotational option given we will be having five substitutes next season. Cesar Azpilicueta has also been a fantastic servant to the club and absolutely would still have a role to play in a 50+ game season. For the four of them, plus Christiansen, Lukaku, Rudiger etc leaving and the likes of Jorginho and Kante yet to commit to new contracts shows what a sloppy shop Tuchel is running over there at the moment Having that many players disinterested only ends one way. It's a lot easier to replace the manager than it is to replace as many players that want to leave Chelsea at the minute. - Werner works best in our set up given what he provides off the ball. That being said, you don't pay an attacking player £250k per week who's best attribute is off the ball. On the ball you see a technically limited footballer who has one of the lowest conversion rates in Europe. - Pulisic isn't one of the players mentioned but his best football for us came nearly 3 years and has been given multiple opportunities to rediscover that form. He hasn't provided anything close. Just how many more chances do you want Tuchel to give him? - This last season we saw the magnitude in quality difference between Reece James and Azpilicueta. We need quality in depth. Love the bloke but his legs are gone and is prone to errors now. He is suffering the same fate as Ivanovic 2016 where his legs cannot keep up with the pace of the game. Marina was responsible for the contracts of Christensen and Rudiger falling through, so not sure how you can pin that on Tuchel. There are also multiple sources suggesting Marina took McLachlan's advise to prioritise Lukaku. She's left us in quite a state so its no surprise why Boehly let her go immediately. Tuchel rates both Jorginho and Kante but we now have an owner whos focus is entirely on sustainability. He wants to match value with contribution. Jorginho isn't a player that will lead a midfield to a league title and Kante is becoming more injury prone + is losing a lot of athleticism, should we really be giving them extensions or focus on bringing in younger quality? 30 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: It's a lot easier to replace the manager than it is to replace as many players that want to leave Chelsea at the minute. Except it isn't easy to replace Thomas Tuchel. He has his flaws but he is for me comfortably the 3rd best manager in Europe. Player power culture at this club needs to be rid of or it will just continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,407 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, Cicero said: - Werner works best in our set up given what he provides off the ball. That being said, you don't pay an attacking player £250k per week who's best attribute is off the ball. On the ball you see a technically limited footballer who has one of the lowest conversion rates in Europe. - Pulisic isn't one of the players mentioned but his best football for us came nearly 3 years and has been given multiple opportunities to rediscover that form. He hasn't provided anything close. Just how many more chances do you want Tuchel to give him? - This last season we saw the magnitude in quality difference between Reece James and Azpilicueta. We need quality in depth. Love the bloke but his legs are gone and is prone to errors now. He is suffering the same fate as Ivanovic 2016 where his legs cannot keep up with the pace of the game. Marina was responsible for the contracts of Christensen and Rudiger falling through, so not sure how you can pin that on Tuchel. There are also multiple sources suggesting Marina took McLachlan's advise to prioritise Lukaku. She's left us in quite a state so its no surprise why Boehly let her go immediately. Tuchel rates both Jorginho and Kante but we now have an owner whos focus is entirely on sustainability. He wants to match value with contribution. Jorginho isn't a player that will lead a midfield to a league title and Kante is becoming more injury prone + is losing a lot of athleticism, should we really be giving them extensions or focus on bringing in younger quality? Except it isn't easy to replace Thomas Tuchel. He has his flaws but he is for me comfortably the 3rd best manager in Europe. Player power culture at this club needs to be rid of or it will just continue. That's a very good post that shows the difference between somebody that supports the club and a natural observer. Just to clarify what I meant by "its easier to replace the manager" is that logistically it's easier to replace one person than 8+ players. Other than Nigel Pearson I cannot think of anybody in recent time that's been allowed to oversee an entire overhaul after criticising the majority of the team. I rate Tuchel as a Manager, but when a situation has got the point where he begins making statements like he has recently a change within less than 12 months feels absolutely inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said: That's a very good post that shows the difference between somebody that supports the club and a natural observer. Just to clarify what I meant by "its easier to replace the manager" is that logistically it's easier to replace one person than 8+ players. Other than Nigel Pearson I cannot think of anybody in recent time that's been allowed to oversee an entire overhaul after criticising the majority of the team. I rate Tuchel as a Manager, but when a situation has got the point where he begins making statements like he has recently a change within less than 12 months feels absolutely inevitable. Sarri said much worse tbf, and he left on his own accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,407 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Cicero said: Sarri said much worse tbf, and he left on his own accord. There was absolutely no chance of that regime continuing in to the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 1 minute ago, The Palace Fan said: There was absolutely no chance of that regime continuing in to the next season. Club spent a fortune to bring him in. Finished 3rd and spanked Arsenal in a European final. They wanted to give him another go but he made up his mind he wanted to go back to Italy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,407 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, Cicero said: Club spent a fortune to bring him in. Finished 3rd and spanked Arsenal in a European final. They wanted to give him another go but he made up his mind he wanted to go back to Italy. Firstly given you had an impending transfer ban the situations are completely different. In spite of that the fans had chanted "Fuck off Sarri Ball", the players had switched off and Juventus had began courting before the season finished. Why pay millions to sack someone when you can get compensation for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,107 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Cicero said: Club spent a fortune to bring him in. Finished 3rd and spanked Arsenal in a European final. They wanted to give him another go but he made up his mind he wanted to go back to Italy. I don't know about that, it seemed all parties hated eachother by the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Just now, Spike said: I don't know about that, it seemed all parties hated eachother by the end of it. I remember the club tried to negotiate with him but he had his heart set to a return to Italy. Fans abusing him also didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Lucas said: Personally, I think he's frustrated that the club haven't managed to get in most his targets at this point. He obviously wants Kounde and that's dragged on, he wanted Raphinha and they kinda got played by Deco on that one, and whether there is truth in it or not, it seems like he'd quite like Ronaldo. And whilst he's not got all those in, he's a little reluctant to let go of your Alonso's, Azpilicueta's, Hudson Odoi's, Pulisic's and Broja's etc that want to go because he doesn't want to leave himself short. This was always going to be a testing season... Fresh off the back of the Abramovich saga along with the sanctions that went with it meant the club were in limbo for a long period of time where nobody really knew what was going to happen. I am sure that this unsettled quite a few players as they pondered the pros and cons of it all. Some have left now, Some still want to leave and when that's all finally sorted out we will be left with players that could be considered as just a level below where we need them to be if we want to compete for titles.. Barring a decent cup run I can actually see us dropping right off in the hunt for trophies for a good while.. I mentioned in another thread somewhere a while back that I felt if we couldn't get our main targets that would be solid additions to the side we would then be forced to take our second or even third choice options and when you start getting down to second or third choice players it feels like we are just filling the gaps rather than improving. Out of the players we have signed so far Sterling will be the only one capable of hitting the ground running as it's just another season in the PL for him, Anyone else will take time to settle so there is that to consider.. I agree with Lucas when he mentions Tuchels frustrations with the situation, let's not forget it was him that had to front all the questions about players/sanctions/takeovers almost on a daily/weekly basis last season and to be honest he was about as professional as a bloke could be given everything that was going on around him while still trying to motivate the team to try and win things.. He knows better than anyone that if you want to remain competitive then you need to keep adding quality and so far we seem way off the pace in that regard. I also agree that he is probably very reluctant to let players go unless he gets replacements and the way the whole sorry saga of Raphinia/Kounde/deLigt panned out can't be filling him with confidence right now.... He did say at the beginning of the the transfer window that the club will remain competitive but on what level remains to be seen... The way things stand it will be a slightly worse season for us than the last one.. This brings me on to Boehly, He was very quick to move everyone on and wipe the slate clean at the club which to a degree I understand but with them being gone so has all the experience of bringing players in and now he has been the one who is trying to get business done for the club, It might have been worth him holding on a little while longer until the transfer window had been completed... I don't know how he goes about business but if we can't get decent players over the line then he surely can't be expecting Tuchel to improve or even deliver silverware... He is certainly no Abramovich so I wouldn't imagine that any decision regarding Tuchel would be a knee jerk one so that should allow him some grace especially if we don't strengthen further and it might take a couple of seasons for things to come together, Having said that, if he was to deliver the players Tuchel asked for and then Tuchel failed to have the desired impact on them that might be a different story.. Either way I don't see us getting any higher than 4th and maybe ending up as low as 6th, I can even see Spurs leapfrogging us this season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,919 Posted July 25, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted July 25, 2022 Feels like a quite inevitable departure for me. Only thing stopping it is the fact it's a new regime at Chelsea and they might not be quite as ruthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Storts+ 2,425 Posted July 25, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted July 25, 2022 9 hours ago, Cicero said: It's a one out, one in situation. The difficulty is that we have an abundance of average/mediocre players on high wages that are difficult to sell. We all do though. That’s the downside to the premier league money. We all have bloated squads of players on huge money we just can’t shift. Other than to each other. It’s that or take the hit and let them go on a free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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