UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

For a long time I thought a second referendum would be a big problem because if Remain won it would just open a whole can of worms about which one actually counted.

However, the farce has become so farcical that I changed my mind a while ago. More and more comes out about the mistruths of the Leave campaign and the current government that I think it's now justified to ask the question again even though I still think it opens that can of worms. 

I sympathise with Leave voters in the whole situation but if you're happy to use "it's what the people voted for" as your justification for wanting it done, based on democracy, then you can have no reason for it not to go back to a public vote. There's nothing more democratic than having a second referendum with proper information this time. If the people still want to Leave then Leave will win again and the people get what they want. If people now want to Remain then it's stupid to press on with Brexit and call it what the people want because it shows that it's actually what the people wanted in 2016.

[SirBalon]

I just thought I’d politely and lightly place this here. I knew about it a long time ago but in a group Whatsapp someone sent me it so I’m sharing it with you guys. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Okay usually whenever Sajid Javid is criticised… this is usually what's thrown back at anyone - so let's get it out of the way now.

"BuT hE iS tHe SoN oF aN iMmIgRaNt BuS dRiVeR"

Right now that that's out of the way, let's talk about his absolute dereliction of duty as Chancellor. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/21/sajid-javid-refuses-to-assess-economic-dangers-of-brexit-plan

So he's refusing to do an assessment of the economic impact of Brexit, instead reassuring people that it is "self-evidently in our best economic interests." So here we are, facing more economic uncertainty than we had pre-referendum. And we're being told by this fraud not to worry about anything and he won't even make his own assessment because "it'll be fine."

In a normal world, this would rule him out from any important position in government ever again. Sadly, we don't live in a normal world.

But hey, who cares about the substance of his politics.... hE iS tHe SoN oF aN iMmIgRaNt BuS dRiVeR

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Okay usually whenever Sajid Javid is criticised… this is usually what's thrown back at anyone - so let's get it out of the way now.

"BuT hE iS tHe SoN oF aN iMmIgRaNt BuS dRiVeR"

Right now that that's out of the way, let's talk about his absolute dereliction of duty as Chancellor. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/21/sajid-javid-refuses-to-assess-economic-dangers-of-brexit-plan

So he's refusing to do an assessment of the economic impact of Brexit, instead reassuring people that it is "self-evidently in our best economic interests." So here we are, facing more economic uncertainty than we had pre-referendum. And we're being told by this fraud not to worry about anything and he won't even make his own assessment because "it'll be fine."

In a normal world, this would rule him out from any important position in government ever again. Sadly, we don't live in a normal world.

But hey, who cares about the substance of his politics.... hE iS tHe SoN oF aN iMmIgRaNt BuS dRiVeR

He's just a tool in and amongst some very dodgy and dangerous people (one of them we can just throw the fact he's self serving and that's it). The funniest one of the lot now that David Davies is out of the picture is Dominic Raab... If you want to have a real laugh just bring up 90% of his quotes since 2016... It would make a one of the greatest comedies ever. One of his latest ones on stating that Northern Ireland are getting a great deal, "the best of both worlds" because they remain tied to the UK and their future Customs regulations but ALSO they will remain a part of the EU with frictionaless free trade. 

You literally couldn't write it if he hadn't said it. How do these guys get their foot in politics but even worse, the Cabinet of the Government of the United Kingdom!

[Stan]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Okay usually whenever Sajid Javid is criticised… this is usually what's thrown back at anyone - so let's get it out of the way now.

"BuT hE iS tHe SoN oF aN iMmIgRaNt BuS dRiVeR"

Right now that that's out of the way, let's talk about his absolute dereliction of duty as Chancellor. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/21/sajid-javid-refuses-to-assess-economic-dangers-of-brexit-plan

So he's refusing to do an assessment of the economic impact of Brexit, instead reassuring people that it is "self-evidently in our best economic interests." So here we are, facing more economic uncertainty than we had pre-referendum. And we're being told by this fraud not to worry about anything and he won't even make his own assessment because "it'll be fine."

In a normal world, this would rule him out from any important position in government ever again. Sadly, we don't live in a normal world.

But hey, who cares about the substance of his politics.... hE iS tHe SoN oF aN iMmIgRaNt BuS dRiVeR

 

6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

He's just a tool in and amongst some very dodgy and dangerous people (one of them we can just throw the fact he's self serving and that's it). The funniest one of the lot now that David Davies is out of the picture is Dominic Raab... If you want to have a real laugh just bring up 90% of his quotes since 2016... It would make a one of the greatest comedies ever. One of his latest ones on stating that Northern Ireland are getting a great deal, "the best of both worlds" because they remain tied to the UK and their future Customs regulations but ALSO they will remain a part of the EU with frictionaless free trade. 

You literally couldn't write it if he hadn't said it. How do these guys get their foot in politics but even worse, the Cabinet of the Government of the United Kingdom!

Amber Rudd did the same on TV yesterday (can't remember what programme). Said 'our governments own research says economically we're worse off by 4-6% but I still think it's the right thing to do because we had the referendum in 2016' yet I've seen nowhere near the outcry hurled towards her compared to if, let's say Diane Abbott, said something like that. She'd be absolutely slaughtered. 

[The Artful Dodger]

On ‎20‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 17:52, SirBalon said:

I just thought I’d politely and lightly place this here. I knew about it a long time ago but in a group Whatsapp someone sent me it so I’m sharing it with you guys. 

Thought it was Raab that said that? 

[SirBalon]

3 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Thought it was Raab that said that? 

Both mate, both Priti Patel and Dominic Raab.

 

This next tweet is from one of the most respected and leading experts on British Constitutional law.

 

[SirBalon]

 

[RandoEFC+]

Trying to keep abreast of everything while I'm at work but can't access Twitter. Just read this on BBC:

So the Conservatives could pass a no confidence vote in their own government to force a general election, I'm okay with that much but I have two questions:

1) Wouldn't they risk Corbyn and the opposition parties forming an emergency government? I know this is almost impossible barring a sudden u-turn from Jo Swinson and her party.

2) If there is a no confidence vote in Johnson's government, is he then allowed to run as party leader in the general election that follows? I assume yes otherwise they wouldn't do it but seems a bit bizarre.

[SirBalon]

Here in the UK or better said, in England, we have this innate reverential condition that a patrician style accent, voice or just eloquence sound to the mechanics of our speech which almost leads us to accept any gibberish that's released from your everyday vocal cords we all have unless you take it upon yourself to question the motive and the detals contained within the argument. It's art, but on execution it's not that difficult to dismantle and seperate education from intelligence!

This is bloody hilarious!

 

[Guest]

Just an observation. I'm not saying all brexit voters are racist because I know plenty who aren't. But it's funny how all racists are brexit voters.

[RandoEFC+]

More stupidity really tonight. The House voted to discuss Boris's deal but quite reasonably voted against trying to force it through in less than a week.

There's nothing wrong with extending for 3 more months to hammer out the deal in parliament. That's what parliament is there for. The only thing stopping it is Boris wanting to save face because he's shouted so much about October 31st. Be reasonable for fucks sake, agree to the extension and thrash out the details of the deal in parliament in good faith. Come out and say "I know we promised to leave on the deadline but we've found a compromise with the opposition parties and we're extending by 3 months to make sure we leave with the best possible deal that has been properly ratified by parliament".

Johnson and the Tories only have themselves to blame on this. Between them they've had months and months to negotiate a deal and Johnson's bluster and history of lying and bending the rules is actually the major contributing factor to the opposition and Tory rebels being so obstructive to what he's trying to achieve. Who'd have thought saying one thing in public, another in Westminster, something entirely different on Twitter while your lawyers tell a different story in the Scottish courts would sow distrust amongst the other MPs?

As for the other side, if the EU grant an extension and Johnson tables another motion for a general election there really isn't any excuse left not to vote in favour and get it done. It pains me to say it but now that a no deal Brexit has more or less been prevented, Labour have to put their money where their mouth is and go to the polls. I cant see them getting anywhere near power though. Worst possible scenario is another hung parliament. The Tories would need the Brexit party to prop them up which seems entirely unlikely given Farage's stance on Johnson's deal. Labour being propped up by everyone else is the other possibility but Jo Swinson has already said that she won't back Corbyn so the only way that happens is if Labour, SNP, PC and Greens somehow amass over half of the seats and I can't see that in a month of Sundays either.

So basically we're still in "what a mess" limbo. The only thing that gets us out is a general election that leads to a Tory majority, which could happen. This is what happens in a two party system when there's no consensus though. Leave still seems to have slightly more popularity than Remain yet Remain is more popular than any of the many versions of Leave and no party holds a majority in parliament. We shouldn't be surprised by this after the referendum landed on 52/48 and then the courts finding Leave guilty of breaking electoral law sticking an asterisk next to that already slender result.

[SirBalon]

 

[Fairy In Boots]

22 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Thought it was Raab that said that? 

They published a book several years ago setting out a view for Britain. But it’s attributed to her as if an actual quote last week. 

Also they’re not wrong, if you compare output or productivity from a Brit compared to an Eastern European we’re lazy most of the time. We are capable of hard work but the we are also capable of dossing. 

A great example is the fact most are reading this at their desk while at work. 

[The Artful Dodger]

2 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

They published a book several years ago setting out a view for Britain. But it’s attributed to her as if an actual quote last week. 

Also they’re not wrong, if you compare output or productivity from a Brit compared to an Eastern European we’re lazy most of the time. We are capable of hard work but the we are also capable of dossing. 

A great example is the fact most are reading this at their desk while at work. 

What are you a slave master? Who are you to judge anyone's work ethic. 

[SirBalon]

I know I've posted a number of these, but they're all gems and this one is especially funny and once again demonstrates how it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for certain types of humans to change their minds on anything. Like they say; "if you don't have a mind, you can't change it"

 

[6666]

Interesting tactic of trying to appeal to SJW types, that don't care about context, by going "OMG they're white men". Not sure she realises that sane people can see the tweet as well...

[RandoEFC+]

Rumour has it the entire opposition and enough Tory rebels were willing a few weeks ago to vote no confidence in Boris and support Corbyn in creating a temporary emergency government to prevent no deal and probably pass a motion for a second referendum. This was before Johnson came back with a deal. Who was it that stopped this from happening? Jo Swinson because she objects to Corbyn being a temporary prime minister despite wanting to achieve what she did more than she objects to BoJo and his project.

[SirBalon]

9 hours ago, 6666 said:

Interesting tactic of trying to appeal to SJW types, that don't care about context, by going "OMG they're white men". Not sure she realises that sane people can see the tweet as well...

I don't know if you've been following the Parliamentary saga closely over these past weeks especially since Jo Swinson became Lib Dems leader and also the context on why she's particularly calling them "white men". There's a reason behind it related to the ERG.

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Rumour has it the entire opposition and enough Tory rebels were willing a few weeks ago to vote no confidence in Boris and support Corbyn in creating a temporary emergency government to prevent no deal and probably pass a motion for a second referendum. This was before Johnson came back with a deal. Who was it that stopped this from happening? Jo Swinson because she objects to Corbyn being a temporary prime minister despite wanting to achieve what she did more than she objects to BoJo and his project.

Jo Swinson is indeed against Jeremy Corbyn becoming interim leader but then again so is most of the HoC including a pretty large proportion of the Labour Party itself. Rumour has it that John Bercow has been being prepared in the background for this if it's necessary.

[The Artful Dodger]

12 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Jo Swinson is indeed against Jeremy Corbyn becoming interim leader but then again so is most of the HoC including a pretty large proportion of the Labour Party itself. Rumour has it that John Bercow has been being prepared in the background for this if it's necessary.

That won't go down well at all, Bercow is widely despised.

Corbyn has to be head of any interim government, he is the elected leader of the opposition. Swinson is rotten, she's economically a Tory really, the Lib Dems, including supposedly 'Labour' Berger and Umunna, abstained on an amendment vowing to protect the NHS yesterday. The Lib Dems are vile opportunist party who offer nothing to working class people, every bit as bad as the Tory party.

[Stan]

6 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

the Lib Dems, including supposedly 'Labour' Berger and Umunna, abstained on an amendment vowing to protect the NHS yesterday

I don't know if it should have, but this really surprised me considering what the party is supposedly meant to stand for. 

[SirBalon]

10 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

That won't go down well at all, Bercow is widely despised.

Corbyn has to be head of any interim government, he is the elected leader of the opposition. Swinson is rotten, she's economically a Tory really, the Lib Dems, including supposedly 'Labour' Berger and Umunna, abstained on an amendment vowing to protect the NHS yesterday. The Lib Dems are vile opportunist party who offer nothing to working class people, every bit as bad as the Tory party.

You’re a Corbynista and like any radical trubost following it cancels out any compromise or meddle of the road agreement... Hence why we’re in this mess in the first place because Brexiters have various versions of Brexit and are all fanatical about it and then you have those that ate willing to accept a shit deal that harms the country and the Union just to deliver something that is a shit idea.

Under normal circumstances it would indeed be the leader of the opposition but the majority of Parliament do not want Corbyn as interim leader and there’s the issue as he cannot force it upon anyone and it HAS to be a consensus. Where we’re left with is that either all of this fanaticism is stopped so as to progress on both sides of the board or we go further into crisis where EVEN THE QUEEN may have to intervene.

The rules do not state that only the leader of the opposition can be interim leader. This is something that Parliament have to come to an agreement on the individual. Those are the rules.

[The Artful Dodger]

2 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

You’re a Corbynista and like any radical trubost following it cancels out any compromise or meddle of the road agreement... Hence why we’re in this mess in the first place because Brexiters have various versions of Brexit and are all fanatical about it and then you have those that ate willing to accept a shit deal that harms the country and the Union just to deliver something that is a shit idea.

Under normal circumstances it would indeed be the leader of the opposition but the majority of Parliament do not want Corbyn as interim leader and there’s the issue as he cannot force it upon anyone and it HAS to be a consensus. Where we’re left with is that either all of this fanaticism is stopped so as to progress on both sides of the board or we go further into crisis where EVEN THE QUEEN may have to intervene.

The rules do not state that only the leader of the opposition can be interim leader. This is something that Parliament have to come to an agreement on the individual. Those are the rules.

What? How dare you throw around blame for this, you are the cretin who voted for Brexit and are now floundering in desperation trying to blame anything and anyone else. Your rambling, incoherent posts betray a man desperately embarrassed about his own idiotic choice and trying to atone. You can't. 

For the record,  I am not a 'Corbynista' as you unimaginatively call me. I am someone who wants a Labour party who represents what Labour always should be about. The Lib Dems are an absolute embarrassment, economically right-wing and accepting of homophobes and pro-war hawks, Charles Kennedy would be spinning in his grave. Nobody who even pretends to have an interest in left wing politics should be voting for the Liberal Democrats as they are.

No matter what 'the rules' say, it stands to reason that the leader of the largest party should be at the head of it, it would be absurd to have that Thatcherite gobshite Swinson as head of it. 

[SirBalon]

12 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

What? How dare you throw around blame for this, you are the cretin who voted for Brexit and are now floundering in desperation trying to blame anything and anyone else. Your rambling, incoherent posts betray a man desperately embarrassed about his own idiotic choice and trying to atone. You can't. 

For the record,  I am not a 'Corbynista' as you unimaginatively call me. I am someone who wants a Labour party who represents what Labour always should be about. The Lib Dems are an absolute embarrassment, economically right-wing and accepting of homophobes and pro-war hawks, Charles Kennedy would be spinning in his grave. Nobody who even pretends to have an interest in left wing politics should be voting for the Liberal Democrats as they are.

No matter what 'the rules' say, it stands to reason that the leader of the largest party should be at the head of it, it would be absurd to have that Thatcherite gobshite Swinson as head of it. 

There are other Labour MPs being touted and talked to right now. Flexibility and consensus is what’s required at this moment.

As for the insults, I’ll just ignore them.