UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[Danny]

5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Go and read .

This has just been dug up on Twitter from earlier in May.

 

Tbh unless I was missing something I don’t think him going up there to stay in a house with family nearby was wrong, it in itself is within guidelines.

But now there’s an image of a ticket to a local castle floating about? And multiple sightings? Feel for those people who’ve wanted to be around family but can’t and yet have to see this

[RandoEFC+]

13 minutes ago, Danny said:

Tbh unless I was missing something I don’t think him going up there to stay in a house with family nearby was wrong, it in itself is within guidelines.

But now there’s an image of a ticket to a local castle floating about? And multiple sightings? Feel for those people who’ve wanted to be around family but can’t and yet have to see this

The family live in London. His wife started showing symptoms. I dont know if it's clear whether he had started showing symptoms to but they drove up to some property in Durham where his parents live and stayed there. The guidelines expressly state that if you or one of your household are showing symptoms which at least one of them was, then you must not leave your home under any circumstances. Again, their home is in London. The excuse is that they might not be able to look after the 4 year old son if they both got really ill, but other people have been put in the same scenario and had to make do. Some say they even rang 111 and were told that they were categorically not allowed to seek help with childcare and that the entire household should self isolate for 2 weeks. Even if this weren't the case and/or the Cummings were both hospitalised with Covid 19, the wife has a brother who lives in London, removing the last possible excuse they could have to drive all the way to Durham.

The Mirror and the Guardian have allowed government to fight this out throughout the day before reporting that Cummings made a second trip back to Durham. He was pictured in London on two separate days after the initial trip to Durham. Then after the date of these two pictures, there are multiple eye witnesses reporting that they saw him in Durham again including out at a site 30 miles away from his parents house. People are also now digging up tweets from around 10th May from people asking why they've recognised Cummings out and about in Durham when they know he lives and works in London and we're supposed to be in lockdown. I don't know if this is the date of the second visit or a third, separate phase of time spent in Durham without looking it up again but this thing is cut and dry.

He's been caught red handed.

[Stan]

13 minutes ago, Danny said:

Tbh unless I was missing something I don’t think him going up there to stay in a house with family nearby was wrong, it in itself is within guidelines.

It's the fact he travelled 250+ miles to do it. 

If you're so ill, how have you managed such a long trip with a kid and an ill wife in the car too, presumably without stopping? 

Guidelines at the time were not to visit family if you have symptoms. He had symptoms. His wife actually had the virus. 

So not only did they travel with the virus (safeguarding the kid is no excuse considering, by their own account, they stayed in a separate part of the house), they also put their own family members at risk, and with his parents potentially being in vulnerable categories too. 

Now, I know this bit is speculation, but I find it hard to believe and very much doubt he's travelled that far only to go straight in to another part of the house and not seen his parents or sisters/nieces etc. 

Also, his own credibility has gone out the window if this 2nd trip story is true. Where he's gone back up to Durham and ended up going sightseeing or walking in the woods. Especially given we were still under strict lockdown rules at the time (mid-April). So he's gone Durham, come back to London and the gone back up to Durham. Again it smacks of hypocrisy and double standards. Calderwood, the health minister in Scotland, was sacked for travelling in lockdown when rules were explicitly stay at home. Why did Cummings go back up to Durham for second time? 

The other point to raise is how is it that a man in his position has his closest care providers 250 odd miles away? It later came out in the day that his sister-in-law lives in London too and his own aide lives 2 streets away. Yes there may be other circumstances which prevent them from looking after his kid but having said that, in an emergency surely they'd be easier to accommodate with as oppose to risking the long journey up north?! 

I think if you don't see what he's done wrong it's a bit worrying... 

[Stan]

33 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Go and read .

This has just been dug up on Twitter from earlier in May.

 

Another... 

 

[Danny]

@RandoEFC @Stan

Then that’s fair enough, he’s obviously been caught doing multiple trips. One trip to your parents alone so your child can potentially be cared for by them is allowed, what’s her name said it in one of the briefings that families can make special arrangements if both parents fall ill. Looks like the govt are trying to hide behind that, smart of the press to hold fire on the second accusation to see if the govt would expose themselves as covering it up 

[Danny]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

Another... 

 

I think whilst you can’t edit tweets does give this accusation validity, anyone who’s done their research into someone could find out where his parents are and fire a tweet out like this potentially hoping to cause a stir. I think the press will need something more concrete than just witness accusations which could be considered to be fake to keep Cummings in a job

[Inverted]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/what-to-do-if-you-or-someone-you-live-with-has-coronavirus-symptoms/staying-at-home-if-you-or-someone-you-live-with-has-coronavirus-symptoms/

If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus:

• do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask someone to deliver it to your home

 

The guidance is unambiguous. "Any" means "any". 

All other discussion is just noise and disinformation. 

[Danny]

32 minutes ago, Inverted said:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/what-to-do-if-you-or-someone-you-live-with-has-coronavirus-symptoms/staying-at-home-if-you-or-someone-you-live-with-has-coronavirus-symptoms/

If you or someone you live with has symptoms of coronavirus:

• do not leave your home for any reason – if you need food or medicine, order it online or by phone, or ask someone to deliver it to your home

 

The guidance is unambiguous. "Any" means "any". 

All other discussion is just noise and disinformation. 

This goes back to the govt being vague, they stated at a briefing that if both parents are ill and need a child to be looked after they can make special arrangements. Not however stated on govt website 

[Inverted]

7 hours ago, Danny said:

This goes back to the govt being vague, they stated at a briefing that if both parents are ill and need a child to be looked after they can make special arrangements. Not however stated on govt website 

I don't think it is that unclear. 

If you wanted to make care arrangements, then you could have someone come and pick up your child. That's really the only way to square "don't leave your home for any reason" with "you can make arrangements for your children".

 

[RandoEFC+]

We've got a runner...

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

We've got a runner...

First one to break ranks. He's on Sky News now. 

Need to watch more of Sophy Ridge

He'll win a lot of backing and support with his constituents with his comments. Agree with him. Media won't let this go. 

 

 

[Stan]

Enjoying Shapps getting slaughtered here... 

[RandoEFC+]

Two

 

[Inverted]

The thing is that it's too late for the issue to be cleanly swept under the rug with just Cummings going. 

Pretty much all of the cabinet with an online presence has misled the public as to the facts, actively disparaged the lockdown guidance, and encouraged lawbreaking. 

Under normal standards of ministerial responsibility they would all be strongly expected to resign and that would be the end of their public lives. That's how far down the rabbit hole we are. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Inverted

[RandoEFC+]

Up to four now.

[Stan]

Oops, Shapps made a boo-boo

 

[Stan]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

Up to four now.

5? 

Who are the others so far? 

[RandoEFC+]

Tobias Ellwood is the only one I've seen that I've actually heard of before this.

[Bluewolf]

35 minutes ago, Stan said:

Who are the others so far?

 

A growing number of Conservative MPs are calling for UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson to sack his top aide, Dominic Cummings.

It comes after prominent 1922 Committee member Steve Baker first said this morning Cummings "must go".

Other Tory MPs include:

• Sir Roger Gale, MP for North Thanet, who tweeted that Cummings' position "is no longer tenable"
• Caroline Nokes, MP for Romsey and Southampton, who tweeted "there cannot be one rule for most of us and wriggle room for others"
• Craig Whittaker, MP for Calder Valley, who agreed Cummings' position was "untenable" and tweeted that "you cannot advise the nation one thing then do the opposite"
• Damian Collins, MP for Folkestone and Hythe and former chair of the digital, culture, media and sport Committee, who tweeted "the government would be better without [Cummings]"
• Simon Hoare, MP for North Dorset, who tweeted that Cummings "must consider his position" and was "wounding the PM/Govt"
• Peter Bone, MP for Wellingborough and Rushden, told LBC that Cummings "has to go" because he broke the rules and has not apologised

William Wragg, MP for Hazel Grove, has retweeted Baker's criticism of Cummings.

[Bluewolf]

12 hours ago, Stan said:

If you're so ill, how have you managed such a long trip with a kid and an ill wife in the car too, presumably without stopping?

I can tell you that having made over 15 trips ( there and back ) from Nottingham to London back in the day was about 150 miles and we had to stop along the way every time, It's anywhere between 3 to 4 hours journey time depending on traffic, speed etc... you can get away with a bit more speed during the night trips... 

I can't see how they could have made that journey without having to stop at a service station somewhere especially with kids in the car?? and while being infected??? 

Government are now saying they won't be wasting anymore time with this matter and false stories from papers so everybody calm down, no need to be trying to hold them to account because they don't want to be so that's the end of that... They should be allowed to do as they please and carry on in Government as they wish no questions asked... 

[Stan]

Some big-ish names in there, even ones that strongly backed Brexit and therefore originally would have backed Cummings wish to get UK out of the EU. Steve Baker and Peter Bone especially. So while they may have agreed on that, they clearly don't approve of him as a person (going by Baker's comments before).

This is just the beginning, too...

[Stan]

Just now, Bluewolf said:

I can tell you that having made over 15 trips ( there and back ) from Nottingham to London back in the day was about 150 miles and we had to stop along the way every time, It's anywhere between 3 to 4 hours journey time depending on traffic, speed etc... you can get away with a bit more speed during the night trips... 

I can't see how they could have made that journey without having to stop at a service station somewhere especially with kids in the car?? and while being infected??? 

Government are now saying they won't be wasting anymore time with this matter and false stories from papers so everybody calm down, no need to be trying to hold them to account because they don't want to be so that's the end of that... They should be allowed to do as they please and carry on in Government as they wish no questions asked... 

Yeah the middle bit of your post especially. You've got a severly-ill wife (by her own account) and a 4-year old kid in the car.

London to Durham is a 4-hour journey at best of times. Isn't it by law (or strong guidance) not to drive more than 2 hours anyway?! 

Being logical, and showing common sense as the government so wish us to do, there's not a chance in hell they didn't stop. And therefore, although service stations are a bit less busy right now, he's put himself in the position to possibly infect others wherever they have stopped.

Government are shitting themselves. They're in that precarious position of knowing they're in the shit, doubling down on it and will pay the price hopefully eventually. 

It's like a young kid at school who hasn't quite grasped ethics and morals yet and thinking they can keep lying and get away with it, keeps digging that hole...

[RandoEFC+]

6 minutes ago, Stan said:

Some big-ish names in there, even ones that strongly backed Brexit and therefore originally would have backed Cummings wish to get UK out of the EU. Steve Baker and Peter Bone especially. So while they may have agreed on that, they clearly don't approve of him as a person (going by Baker's comments before).

This is just the beginning, too...

I'm not sure about that. Cummings isn't well liked among MPs and had run ins with some of those ERG types over the running of the Vote Leave campaign. I've seen at least one journalist mention that there was already no love lost between Baker and Cummings.

[Stan]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

I'm not sure about that. Cummings isn't well liked among MPs and had run ins with some of those ERG types over the running of the Vote Leave campaign. I've seen at least one journalist mention that there was already no love lost between Baker and Cummings.

On a personal level, yes. They probably despised each other. But it goes to show that just cos you might have backed Brexit along with him, doesn't mean Cummings would get the support now. My post was perhaps in response to the narrative that some are playing in that it's only 'loony lefties' or 'rabid Remainers' that would go against him. The list above including those kinds of names shows that isn't the case.

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

On a personal level, yes. They probably despised each other. But it goes to show that just cos you might have backed Brexit along with him, doesn't mean Cummings would get the support now. My post was perhaps in response to the narrative that some are playing in that it's only 'loony lefties' or 'rabid Remainers' that would go against him. The list above including those kinds of names shows that isn't the case.

I don't think many people think this is a partisan issue but there's bound to be a few idiots who will fight to the bitter end.