Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[CaaC (John)+]

VAR to be used in Euro 2020 play-offs and 2022 World Cup qualifying

VAR will be used in qualifying play-offs for the European Championship next year and is set to be introduced in qualifiers for the 2022 World Cup.

Video assistant referees were trialled at the 2017 Confederations Cup before being used at the World Cup in Russia.

However, VAR was not present during the Euro 2020 qualifying matches.

Uefa, European football's governing body, agreed on Wednesday to introduce it for March's play-offs but Fifa needs to approve it for World Cup qualifiers.

The system has been used for the first time in the Premier League this season.

[CaaC (John)+]

VAR: Uefa and home nation FAs to push for changes to offside calls next season

The use of video assistant referees for marginal offside decisions could be amended next season if a joint bid by Uefa and the home nations' football associations succeeds.

The European governing body's president Aleksander Ceferin told the Times there were issues with the "precision" of artificial lines drawn on the pitch to help make decisions.

Uefa will work with the four associations, which each has a vote on the board of lawmakers the International FA Board (Ifab).

Any changes to the laws would be made at Ifab's annual general meeting in Belfast on 29 February.

There have been several controversial offside calls in the Premier League this season.

Liverpool's Roberto Firmino had a goal ruled out against Aston Villa on 2 November after his armpit was deemed to be offside.

The same reasoning was applied to Raheem Sterling's effort for Manchester City against Chelsea on 23 November.

But some fans and pundits have said such tight calls are ruining the spirit of the game and handing an advantage to defenders.

Former England striker and Match of the Day presenter Gary Lineker said after the Sterling decision: "I cannot stand what VAR is doing to the game... particularly with these nonsensically tight offside calls that they can't possibly be sure of one way or the other. Bin it."

Uefa cannot make changes to football laws but the Football Association, the Scottish Football Association, the Welsh Football Association and the Irish Football Association all have voted with Ifab.

At a meeting earlier this month, Ifab discussed the use of VAR and said there was "a growing demand for more immediate information about the referee's final decision".

Any changes to the law would also need to be agreed by Fifa representatives, who also sit on the Ifab board.

Former Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger, Fifa's new head of global football development, now has an influence at world football's governing body.

But speaking at the Ifab meeting on 3 December he said his chief concern about VAR was the resistance of Premier League referees to the use of pitch-side monitors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50762363

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, CaaC (John) said:

VAR: Uefa and home nation FAs to push for changes to offside calls next season

The use of video assistant referees for marginal offside decisions could be amended next season if a joint bid by Uefa and the home nations' football associations succeeds.

The European governing body's president Aleksander Ceferin told the Times there were issues with the "precision" of artificial lines drawn on the pitch to help make decisions.

Uefa will work with the four associations, which each has a vote on the board of lawmakers the International FA Board (Ifab).

Any changes to the laws would be made at Ifab's annual general meeting in Belfast on 29 February.

There have been several controversial offside calls in the Premier League this season.

Liverpool's Roberto Firmino had a goal ruled out against Aston Villa on 2 November after his armpit was deemed to be offside.

The same reasoning was applied to Raheem Sterling's effort for Manchester City against Chelsea on 23 November.

But some fans and pundits have said such tight calls are ruining the spirit of the game and handing an advantage to defenders.

Former England striker and Match of the Day presenter Gary Lineker said after the Sterling decision: "I cannot stand what VAR is doing to the game... particularly with these nonsensically tight offside calls that they can't possibly be sure of one way or the other. Bin it."

Uefa cannot make changes to football laws but the Football Association, the Scottish Football Association, the Welsh Football Association and the Irish Football Association all have voted with Ifab.

At a meeting earlier this month, Ifab discussed the use of VAR and said there was "a growing demand for more immediate information about the referee's final decision".

Any changes to the law would also need to be agreed by Fifa representatives, who also sit on the Ifab board.

Former Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger, Fifa's new head of global football development, now has an influence at world football's governing body.

But speaking at the Ifab meeting on 3 December he said his chief concern about VAR was the resistance of Premier League referees to the use of pitch-side monitors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50762363

I don't get it personally. If your offside your offside. Doesn't matter if it by a toe or an armpit you are still offside. If you can't tell I agree but when it is black and white just very tight I don't get the issue. 

[CaaC (John)+]

VAR 'should not be too forensic' - football law-makers set to issue guidance

Football's law-makers say the video assistant referee system should not be "too forensic" when it comes to offsides - and should only be used to reverse "clear and obvious" errors.

Five goals in the Premier League were ruled out at the weekend for marginal offsides, leading some managers and players to criticise VAR.

Lukas Brud, general secretary of the International Football Association Board, said: "With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust."

He said the body would reissue guidance on VAR's use after its annual general meeting in February.

"If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.

He added: "What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee.

"In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.

FULL REPORT

[Guest]

I don't have a link for this but arsene Wenger has suggested changing the offside rule so players are not offside for noses armpits etc. I think this is a good idea possibly. Before var offsides that were to tight were given as goals. Now with var they aren't. So I would possibly be in favour of relaxing the rules a bit.

[Smiley Culture]

8 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I don't have a link for this but arsene Wenger has suggested changing the offside rule so players are not offside for noses armpits etc. I think this is a good idea possibly. Before var offsides that were to tight were given as goals. Now with var they aren't. So I would possibly be in favour of relaxing the rules a bit.

It’s a terrible idea. If you’re offside, you’re offside, whether you’re not in the same postcode as the defender or whether it’s your elbow that’s offside. 

Didn’t City win the Premier League title based on millimetres last season? Should that goal have not been given then because of how little the ball went over the line, because that’s the same premise as this? 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

It’s a terrible idea. If you’re offside, you’re offside, whether you’re not in the same postcode as the defender or whether it’s your elbow that’s offside. 

Didn’t City win the Premier League title based on millimetres last season? Should that goal have not been given then because of how little the ball went over the line, because that’s the same premise as this? 

Personally I don't care, if you are offside you are offside. But a lot of fans do. It might be a way of getting more support for var more than anything. Also it may stop so many stoppages. Say the rules are relaxed a bit it means it is easier for the linesman to see if the player is offside because they can see the daylight in between. When it is down to a milemetre it's impossible for them to see. So you won't get games stopped and celebrations ruined because it might have been offside by a milemetre

[Stan]

55 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Personally I don't care, if you are offside you are offside. But a lot of fans do. It might be a way of getting more support for var more than anything. Also it may stop so many stoppages. Say the rules are relaxed a bit it means it is easier for the linesman to see if the player is offside because they can see the daylight in between. When it is down to a milemetre it's impossible for them to see. So you won't get games stopped and celebrations ruined because it might have been offside by a milemetre

I think you will because officials are still prone to error and they're working on split-second movements. Some cases might be obvious. Some not. And those that aren't may still be millimetres...

It just moves the premise a bit in the attacker's advantage. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

I think you will because officials are still prone to error and they're working on split-second movements. Some cases might be obvious. Some not. And those that aren't may still be millimetres...

It just moves the premise a bit in the attacker's advantage. 

I worded it wrong I meant you won't get so many stoppages.

[Stan]

34 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I worded it wrong I meant you won't get so many stoppages.

It'd be similar, or not significantly decreased surely?

All goals are checked regardless. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I don't think anything's going to fix VAR. We need better referees and referees need to be held accountable for shit performances and weird decisions. It's not a VAR issue. The technology is fine. It's the people using the technology.

If a referee is 30 feet away from an incident & the linesman is right next to the incident and rules "no foul"... but the referee overrules him - that indicates that the referee either has super human eyesight and can see better than an official right by the incident, or that the referee has no faith in his linesman. But if that linesman was right, then I think the referee should be forced to go on camera and justify why in the fuck he made that poor decision.

At the end of the day VAR is just a tool. The competence of referees is ultimately the biggest issue with wrong decisions in football, not the replay camera and review. After all, if you see something in slow motion over and over and you still make the wrong decision... the video's not to blame.

I think referees are too protected by FIFA/UEFA/FAs & leagues. Make them explain the terrible decisions they make on TV after a match. Have the VAR official on a microphone and explaining his decision real time for everyone watching back home (sorry, I've got no idea how to fix VAR from ruining atmosphere at matches). Transparency and accountability will ultimately lead to better officiating - we need to stop letting referees escape public scrutiny after they've done a shite job.

And maybe make more strict requirements for being a ref at the top level.

Oh and if Mike Riley could get sacked, I think that'd guarantee officiating in England makes a bit more sense after that.

[Smiley Culture]

VAR was never meant to perfect the game, the sooner people realise that, the better. 

[Bluewolf]

27 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

VAR was never meant to perfect the game, the sooner people realise that, the better. 

Of course it wasn't but it was implemented to remove a lot of the controversy of Thierry Henry moments for example instead it seems to have whipped up more controversy rather than less because of some of the decision making that's going on...

I would like to see those officials/official who makes that VAR call to be linked to the studio during live games so that they can explain the call and why they made it and allow questions to be put to them if commentators or pundits disagree with the decision... Currently the calls are being made in the shadows and there are no consequences that we are aware of for making awful calls that affect the outcome of games... and by that I am talking about the first disallowed goal for Chelsea against United as a prime example... I would not argue the toss about offside goals and even though Maguire could or should have been sent off that is another debate about intent I am not prepared to get into.. 

That sadly though is very unlikely to happen because it might tarnish the product if the people using it can't apply the rules fairly across the board so I won't be holding my breath for that to come but think it would help the fans and of course heap some extra pressure on the official who would have to be accountable instead of causing a ton of grief and then slinking off into the night.. 

[Smiley Culture]

11 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

Of course it wasn't but it was implemented to remove a lot of the controversy of Thierry Henry moments for example instead it seems to have whipped up more controversy rather than less because of some of the decision making that's going on...

I would like to see those officials/official who makes that VAR call to be linked to the studio during live games so that they can explain the call and why they made it and allow questions to be put to them if commentators or pundits disagree with the decision... Currently the calls are being made in the shadows and there are no consequences that we are aware of for making awful calls that affect the outcome of games... and by that I am talking about the first disallowed goal for Chelsea against United as a prime example... I would not argue the toss about offside goals and even though Maguire could or should have been sent off that is another debate about intent I am not prepared to get into.. 

That sadly though is very unlikely to happen because it might tarnish the product if the people using it can't apply the rules fairly across the board so I won't be holding my breath for that to come but think it would help the fans and of course heap some extra pressure on the official who would have to be accountable instead of causing a ton of grief and then slinking off into the night.. 

There’s nothing controversial about an offside decision when the player is offside, even it’s by a millimetre. 

[Bluewolf]

5 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

There’s nothing controversial about an offside decision when the player is offside, even it’s by a millimetre. 

Well I did say.... 

5 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

I would not argue the toss about offside goals

Offside is offside and I have never argued otherwise, the fact they are using noses and armpits to decide what is and is not offside is perhaps another matter for debate because anything where a call is made that is so borderline does nothing to promote attacking play in my opinion... for now though offside is offside

[Guest]

@Dr. Gonzo you are say the referee aren't good but where are you talking about? The problems happen all over the world. All countries have good and bad referees.

There has to be some kind of overall standard you can't just say all referees are shit. There are lots of issues with var that need fixing but it isn't as simple as referees are just stupid. They are actually highly trained officials. I think you maybe need to do a bit more research into the issues mate they aren't as simple as you think.  One example would be that we get more angles in TV than the car officials get so we can see things they can't. That's just one example though there are lots of other things which make it harder than we think.

 

[Guest]

@Bluewolf there was no issue with the first Chelsea goal being disaloud it was a clear push .

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@Dr. Gonzo you are say the referee aren't good but where are you talking about? The problems happen all over the world. All countries have good and bad referees.

There has to be some kind of overall standard you can't just say all referees are shit. There are lots of issues with var that need fixing but it isn't as simple as referees are just stupid. They are actually highly trained officials. I think you maybe need to do a bit more research into the issues mate they aren't as simple as you think.  One example would be that we get more angles in TV than the car officials get so we can see things they can't. That's just one example though there are lots of other things which make it harder than we think.

 

Well all I know is Polish referees must be the worst in the world, judging by the shite I saw yesterday.

[Bluewolf]

9 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

@Bluewolf there was no issue with the first Chelsea goal being disaloud it was a clear push .

And Fred's push just prior to that one??? 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

And Fred's push just prior to that one??? 

Didn't look like he pushed him enough to go into the defender they were both pushing each other. There is some debate although there is certainly enough there to reasonably dissalow the goal. 

[LFCMike]

On 19/02/2020 at 11:54, Smiley Culture said:

It’s a terrible idea. If you’re offside, you’re offside, whether you’re not in the same postcode as the defender or whether it’s your elbow that’s offside. 

Didn’t City win the Premier League title based on millimetres last season? Should that goal have not been given then because of how little the ball went over the line, because that’s the same premise as this? 

Your elbow would be offside

[Bluewolf]

55 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Didn't look like he pushed him enough to go into the defender they were both pushing each other. There is some debate although there is certainly enough there to reasonably dissalow the goal. 

Ok, so let's take what you have said there and this is what creates the controversy or for want of a better word a 'grey area' now let's take that and apply it to the offside rule... With offsides and VAR it is either offside or it's not, we don't get a call where in one match someone is clearly offside and in another game it didn't look as though it was enough of an offside not to count, it is either one or the other, Onside or Offside and even though we may debate for all eternity about what we might consider to be a true or realistic offside call the rule is clear for all, if it's over the line even by a nostril hair it's simply Offside, we might not agree with it at times but everyone knows where they stand and everyone gets treated the same.

In the game against United it was deemed enough of a push to be called a foul and disallow a goal and yet Fred's push was not deemed enough of a push to call a foul and a penalty so it becomes open to one mans interpretation on the night and this is what part of the problem is, a shove in the box for me or playing the man and not the ball is a foul, it doesn't matter how much of a push it was, a push is a push but if we leave it open rather than having the one simple rule fits all you will always have issues with those using the system but not the system itself... 

[Faithcore]

On 19/02/2020 at 19:41, Smiley Culture said:

VAR was never meant to perfect the game, the sooner people realise that, the better. 

It obviously was meant to take everything away from the game that I used to love.

I think Wenger's idea is not the best but he is surely right that something has to be changed. Especially as long as it's is technically impossible to precisely tell if it's offside or not which makes those millimeter decisions even more ridiculous.

[Bluewolf]

I am sure that a few seasons ago before VAR was introduced that I read somewhere that marginal offsides were not going to be flagged as it took away from the attacking nature of the game which made sense because no-one likes to see a great build up and goal only to have it snatched away because a player had his elbow just that bit further ahead of the last defender... Can't for the life of me remember where I read it either which is annoying... But wasn't there something about VAR over here being used incorrectly when it comes to offside calls?? Didn't they state that the offside needs to be clear and obvious and not supposed to be used for marginal calls?? Having said that though I would prefer the offside calls to be as they are now because at least it's a standard call across the board for everyone.. 

[Burning Gold]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

I am sure that a few seasons ago before VAR was introduced that I read somewhere that marginal offsides were not going to be flagged as it took away from the attacking nature of the game which made sense because no-one likes to see a great build up and goal only to have it snatched away because a player had his elbow just that bit further ahead of the last defender... Can't for the life of me remember where I read it either which is annoying... But wasn't there something about VAR over here being used incorrectly when it comes to offside calls?? Didn't they state that the offside needs to be clear and obvious and not supposed to be used for marginal calls?? Having said that though I would prefer the offside calls to be as they are now because at least it's a standard call across the board for everyone.. 

I hate the idea of using 'clear and obvious' for offsides. You can't review a contact foul in minute detail and get an objectively correct decision. There will always be room for disagreement, which is why 'clear and obvious' works in that situation - and you (in theory) maintain some consistency as the on-field referee's decision stands unless it's a complete howler. With offside, you can check even a very tight decision and get it right. Yes, there's a margin of error, but that only affects a tiny fraction of decisions. For the most part, you can get it right, so it's not good enough to say "well we could check, but we can't really be arsed and it'd take too long, so we'll not bother and go with a decision that may or may not be right".

In other news, I think we can stop pretending Arsene Wenger is a genius now that he's come out with his brilliant idea for fixing offsides, which amounts to nothing more than moving the decision line further forwards