State of Emergency in Charlottesville

[Panflute]

14 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

You can condemn both without it being neutral. I doubt there are legal ramifications of how you weight it. 

Don't forget Trump has form on failing to properly condem Nazi's and the KKK from his election campaign.

As someone sent around twitter, to quote JFK

 "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of moral crisis preserve their neutrality"

So all babyboomers go to hell? 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Where has it not been condemned? The political right in the states has pretty much unanimously condemned this. 

Again what I'm saying is this hypocritical approach to the left & right violence is not going to work. It's took me 3-4 posts to get you to criticize the left wing nut (which you've tried to brush off as mental Illness) yet all the right are reprehensible if they don't condemn these Nazi cunts straightaway. Antifa as a horrible organisation just as bad as white supremacist groups, with their "it's our way or we'll beat you up" style. Until society acknowledges this you're going to continue radicalizing the far right by playing to the victim mentality they trade off. BLM are in part a black supremacist movement anyway, cut it anyway you want BLm are racist cunts to.

No I quite agree we should tear down the Colosseum in Rome to as it's a monument to vile slavery. It's 2017 if you can't look objectively at the past without getting upset then I again I'd question your intelligence 

I posted that shit days ago. And yes he's probably got a mental illness to shoot people. Nazis and ISIS are also probably not mentally healthy either. Meanwhile there's been lots done by people like you to try to eschew things to create a false equivalency.

I don't see what's so hard about taking a stand against Nazis. 

And I'm not condemning the whole right. As I've stated here in this thread, it's good to see that there are voices on the right that are calling this what it is. I'm condemning those that are trying to sweep Neo-Nazis under the rug like it's not serious.

[Dr. Gonzo]

35 minutes ago, Panflute said:

So all babyboomers go to hell? 

Probably for what they've done to the world if there is a hell.

[RandoEFC+]

Right? Left? Racist? Social Justice Warrior? It's hard work just trying to care anymore. Humans are an angry, bitter species constantly looking for an excuse to blame things on other people or groups of people to let out some of their rage. Somewhere along the line evolution fucked up, maybe it's for the best if North Korea and Trump bury us in a nuclear winter and let evolution try again.

I'm not lumping anyone here into that category though. If you're in this thread debating these things it means you're smart enough and care enough to take time to think about what's right and wrong and whether or not we come to the same conclusions the fact that you're arsed about thinking about it rather than picking up a stick and going to beat up people you don't like puts you ahead of what seems like 90% of the people in the world right now.

My knowledge of the atmosphere in America is limited but I think it's clear to everyone that Trump being in the White House is a shambles. However, in this scenario, people are just over analysing what he's said because they're obsessed with the approval ratings and being able to look back and pin point the "straw that broke the camel's back" if/when it comes to explaining why his time in office was or wasn't a success. For this specific incident, as we've established in this thread, it falls in a grey area and the President has reacted to a slightly wrong shade of grey. Okay, he could have blasted the neo-Nazis but who knows what that would have achieved. 

Fairy is right about the UK being a deeply divided country politically, Right vs Left, it's tiresome and every news story now has just become a points scoring exercise between Labour and Conservative with twats on Twitter and Facebook aggressively shoving their agenda down each others throats, often spouting comments that, if they were spoken across the street, would be threatening and bordering on political extremism. Having moved back to the Isle of Man I won't vote in the next election, if I did I'd always vote Labour, but it's got to the point where most people are so blindly loyal to their beliefs that they won't think things through beyond whether it suits their agenda, I just don't really care what most people on the news, in the media, on the internet have to say anymore.

[Panflute]

People who care about Trump's statement are the same people who have a blue checkmark behind their Twitter name even though no one in a million years would dream of impersonating them.

[Honey Honey]

 

 

There we go. That wasn't so hard was it. Bit awkward for those who were deflecting from him that he has decided actually he had to say something. Good job someone advising or pressurising him is actually socially astute.

[Spike]

Trump's 'racism' is largely fabricated by the media extrapolating his comments on illegal immigrants. It is pretty sad that the bloody president has to make a statement concerning his opinion on racism; but at the end of the day it appeases the naysayers. People will always bitch and moan about what isn't said; eight years of Obama tiptoeing around the phrase 'Islamic terrorism' and the media responce proves that. I'd rather a solution to the damn problem than an acknowledgement. 

[Honey Honey]

Disagree, I think the "it goes without saying" laissez-faire attitude is naive. 

The first line of defence from social deviance is stigmatization. Most of our own behaviour and morality is the product of avoiding social stigma. If you remove or reduce the stigmatization of Nazi ideology you will increase the propensity for people to become neo-Nazi's. Whenever these scumbags come out disgust is a must response, not a token gesture. When they get themselves in the national and international news it is even more important that all social leaders show disgust. To respond ambiguously and neutrally instead rightly warrants alarm bells, it is pure leadership incompetence.

Trump is exceptionally dangerous because his incompetence regarding the basic functioning of leadership has a "yeah but..." brigade at the ready online. That he had to make the extravagant kind of statement he did is the culmination of previous poor form and his own lack of awareness and moral aptitude.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Disagree, I think the "it goes without saying" laissez-faire attitude is naive. 

The first line of defence from social deviance is stigmatization. Most of our own behaviour and morality is the product of avoiding social stigma. If you remove or reduce the stigmatization of Nazi ideology you will increase the propensity for people to become neo-Nazi's. Whenever these scumbags come out disgust is a must response, not a token gesture. When they get themselves in the national and international news it is even more important that all social leaders show disgust. To respond ambiguously and neutrally instead rightly warrants alarm bells, it is pure leadership incompetence.

Trump is exceptionally dangerous because his incompetence regarding the basic functioning of leadership has a "yeah but..." brigade at the ready online. That he had to make the extravagant kind of statement he did is the culmination of previous poor form and his own lack of awareness and moral aptitude.

 

You can see this from the initial reaction from neo-Nazis to Trump's original "both sides" response.

Andrew Anglin of "The Daily Stormer" - a prominent white nationalist site said: "Trump comments were good. He didn't attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us. He said that we need to study why people are so angry, and implied that there was hate... on both sides! So he implied the antifa are haters. There was virtually no counter signaling of us at all. He said he loves us all." Meanwhile, Richard Spencer, the man most prominently behind the "rebranding" of white-nationalism as the "alt-right" (and anyone who says the alt-right has nothing to do with white nationalism, and that a large group of people that happens to have some white nationalists, is either very naïve, lying, or tacitly supporting them - the altright subreddit, before it was banned for being a neo-Nazi page, made that pretty fucking clear) claims the topics are a denouncement of antifa.

Basic condemnation of shit like this is easy political capital for most people. Most people aren't Nazis. Most people aren't racist. Condemnation of people marching under Nazi flags, chanting Nazi slogans, and doing the infamous Nazi salutes should not be difficult. Particularly when they're using ISIS terrorist tactics in ramming a car through a crowd... and for all of the faux outrage of Obama not wanting to specifically call out "Islamic Terror" - even though he condemned terror attacks by ISIS and Al Qaeda - but also not wanting to alienate non-radical Muslims by portraying it as a war against Islamic people, I see some real hypocrisy.

Then, we had the president condemning terrorist attacks - and receiving flak for not going far enough to brand the terrorist attacks specifically. Here we've got no evidence of violence coming from both sides, and the president's reaction was some bullshit "there's hate on both sides" with no real condemnation of the violent side. And that's after silence on terror attacks perpetuated on Muslim Americans not too long before. And as I've cited from Andrew Anglin & Richard Spencer, if we don't see immediate condemnation of these groups and their despicable actions, they see this as tacit support for the man they voted for to "take their country back".

My worry is that a strong statement against neo-Nazis from the President, that was needed in the immediate aftermath of this, won't be taken seriously by the people who were happy with the president's initial response. After all, he's taken a lot of shit for 3 days to make a statement to this effect - now they can say, "oh he's not serious, it's the Deep State that's making him say this".

For the record, I think antifa groups are also a problem. They call literally anyone who disagrees with them a Nazi, even if it's a Jew saying that they don't agree with their violent measures. They use a wide and far too inclusive brush to paint people as Nazis and then advocate violence against the people they've branded as Nazis. They also fly USSR flags and use lots of communist slogans. Antifa people online say they've got no real political leanings, but when you're flying a hammer and sickle flag and chanting communist slogans... it's a safe assumption to guess your political leanings. Even if they lack the ideological conviction of their fascist counterparts.

So the way I see it is. Alt-Right/Neo-Nazi = violent Nazi supporters; Antifa = violent Communists. I see no problem in condemning both groups. They have no place in modern Western democracy, they should not be given political capital, and the vast majority of normal people should fucking shun and shame them.

 

[Danny]

8 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I've just googled Trumps response and he's right, looking at the more detail that comes out from the ground it certainly seems you had violence on both sides and no police between the two with almost running battles before this idiot committed murder. I'd also suggest he's not massively condemning on detail because potential legal ramifications and he's more concerned with North Korea at present. Corbyn has no legal bearing on Venezuala where as the President has a direct legal bearing on incidents in the states. There's also a great attempt underway to attribute this to Trump and his supporters by the looks of it. I think the immediate absence of disgust is because as a right winger you get the smear from this, hence the drive to get people disavowing the nutter that's done this. Look at the comments flying my way in this thread because i'm arguing that this is more an escalation in the existing continuing violence by both fringe elements of the political spectrum. I'm accused of making excuses for it, there's no actual dialogue, it's the same old side with us or you're a Nazi shite, as if i'm guilty by association. It's been going on for months with blatant double standards by the media and society as a whole, both groups want locking up and disbanding. You've now got world leaders condemning this, where were they when it's hard left on right? 

Slavery ended what, 150-160 years ago in the states, if there's a grandparent or even a great grandparent that's alive from the time of slavery i'll give you £100, I think my moneys safe though as they'd have to be 160 years old. This is far more about a continuation of civil rights and the race baiting BLM sensing blood in the cultural self loathing the white race inflicts upon itself coupled with increasing social influence as population percentages increase. Check the deputy Major of Charlotteville's Twitter, Dr Wes Bellamy the new apple of the western media's eye this morning is nothing more than a white hating racist black bloke. I've no doubt white supremacists are thoroughly reprehensible bastards, but this current situation in America and pockets of Europe is far more complex that one set being the bad guys. It's racial tension in which laws are being made with social bias and the result is both sides feeling a sense of victim hood. My neighbour is Nigerian and she's a lovely lady but she told me about a year ago that her car (which had no tax on and was towed and eventually crushed) was taken by the "white racist system", can you not see the problems we've created here? This will go down like a lead ballon but I see nothing to suggest that when the white man is the minority in these countries we're not going to see another ethnic cleansing clusterfuck as we have in Zimbabwe & South Africa because we've done nothing to check anti white sentiment and almost actively encouraged black supremacist thinking. There's a conversation that needs to be had and a peaceful balance that needs to be struck, I don't see how we'll get to that point with the current reactionary response we have.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jadu4

That's Bellamy's tweets blokes a disgrace and shouldn't hold a civil service position, yet apparently he's being used to call out "trump for being a racist" .  Also this was uploaded December last year, it's evident a resident of Charlottesville has been onto this cunt for sometime.

And there's your agenda, much like the Muslims are going to take over, so are black people.

There are still people living today that would have known their grandparents regardless of if they're dead or not now, and even then if that's a push for a lot of people you can go back to great grandparents. But to clarify, that disgusting tweet doesn't alter the meaning behind wanting the statue removed.

[Spike]

19 minutes ago, Danny said:

And there's your agenda, much like the Muslims are going to take over, so are black people.

There are still people living today that would have known their grandparents regardless of if they're dead or not now, and even then if that's a push for a lot of people you can go back to great grandparents. But to clarify, that disgusting tweet doesn't alter the meaning behind wanting the statue removed.

TBH he is right about thing it has gotten pretty brutal in Zimbabwe and South Africa. Don't see how they are relevant though, different scenarios. Fucking South Africa man, that place is about to explode any minute.

[Fairy In Boots]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I posted that shit days ago. And yes he's probably got a mental illness to shoot people. Nazis and ISIS are also probably not mentally healthy either. Meanwhile there's been lots done by people like you to try to eschew things to create a false equivalency.

I don't see what's so hard about taking a stand against Nazis. 

And I'm not condemning the whole right. As I've stated here in this thread, it's good to see that there are voices on the right that are calling this what it is. I'm condemning those that are trying to sweep Neo-Nazis under the rug like it's not serious.

People like me 😂 mate we're on an obsure football forum our readership is what 80-90 ppl, I'm hardly having a social influence. Il just calling it as I see it, admittedly I'm biased on certain issues who isn't? Still doesn't mean I can't make valid points, which I've done there does appear to be a double standard. 

 

21 minutes ago, Danny said:

And there's your agenda, much like the Muslims are going to take over, so are black people.

There are still people living today that would have known their grandparents regardless of if they're dead or not now, and even then if that's a push for a lot of people you can go back to great grandparents. But to clarify, that disgusting tweet doesn't alter the meaning behind wanting the statue removed.

 Lol my agenda, I stated an opinion based on what's happened previously in other countries. It's not an agenda it's fact based reasoning. And I think at a absolute push if there's a 100 year old person in the states that knew their great grandparents then maybe, I doubt it though people didn't live as long and had kids much earlier in life so I'd guess most families in the states had 3-4 generations born after 1900. 

Talking of my agenda, it looks like a terrorist has just ran over several people in Paris killing an 8 year old girl. It's going to be interesting to watch how all those who've spent the last 24 hours screaming murder about  Nazi's tackle this latest atrocity. £10 says there's double standards 

 

[Fairy In Boots]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

TBH he is right about thing it has gotten pretty brutal in Zimbabwe and South Africa. Don't see how they are relevant though, different scenarios. Fucking South Africa man, that place is about to explode any minute.

It's relevant because once the power changes hands racially the minority gets off worse. Look at all the videos coming out of black people in the states saying things to reporters like "white lives don't matter" "I wish whites were extinct" now come on spike think how's this going to play out if this is the cultural norm and the whites are a wealthy minority in 100 years time. History is cyclical, as a species we should learn from it to advance, you've got no chance though we're more wrapped up in hedonistic pleasures mostly. 

[Spike]

Just now, Fairy In Boots said:

It's relevant because once the power changes hands racially the minority gets off worse. Look at all the videos coming out of black people in the states saying things to reporters like "white lives don't matter" "I wish whites were extinct" now come on spike think how's this going to play out if this is the cultural norm and the whites are a wealthy minority in 100 years time. History is cyclical, as a species we should learn from it to advance, you've got no chance though we're more wrapped up in hedonistic pleasures mostly. 

I suppose you're right, the majority always kick the minorities. Maybe, it is difficult for people to look at Zimbabwe and SA as examples because of some of the atrocities committed by white colonies there. 
But I dunno I'm pretty drunk right now

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Fairy In Boots said:

People like me 😂 mate we're on an obsure football forum our readership is what 80-90 ppl, I'm hardly having a social influence. Il just calling it as I see it, admittedly I'm biased on certain issues who isn't? Still doesn't mean I can't make valid points, which I've done there does appear to be a double standard. 

 

 Lol my agenda, I stated an opinion based on what's happened previously in other countries. It's not an agenda it's fact based reasoning. And I think at a absolute push if there's a 100 year old person in the states that knew their great grandparents then maybe, I doubt it though people didn't live as long and had kids much earlier in life so I'd guess most families in the states had 3-4 generations born after 1900. 

Talking of my agenda, it looks like a terrorist has just ran over several people in Paris killing an 8 year old girl. It's going to be interesting to watch how all those who've spent the last 24 hours screaming murder about  Nazi's tackle this latest atrocity. £10 says there's double standards 

 

White supremacists march on the town and your fact based reasoning is watch out, the blacks might take over, they're doing it in Africa.

[Fairy In Boots]

6 minutes ago, Danny said:

White supremacists march on the town and your fact based reasoning is watch out, the blacks might take over, they're doing it in Africa.

lol it's called the broader discussion, obviously this incident hasn't got anything to do with Africa. I'm talking about the violence between both sets that has been going on 12 months or so and long term if these problems aren't addressed the shifting dynamics will see similar problems that have happened in Africa. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

45 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

People like me 😂 mate we're on an obsure football forum our readership is what 80-90 ppl, I'm hardly having a social influence. Il just calling it as I see it, admittedly I'm biased on certain issues who isn't? Still doesn't mean I can't make valid points, which I've done there does appear to be a double standard. 

 

I'm not saying you can't make valid points - nor am I calling you a Nazi. I just think it's worrying that a mass Nazi rally that uses terrorist techniques in conducting violence isn't getting fairly uniform condemnation. It's one thing if it's people exaggerating saying people are Nazis when they just have different views - but here we're talking about people marching under Nazi flags, making Nazi salutes, chanting shit like "Blood and Soil!" (which is a fucking Nazi slogan).

This forum doesn't have the largest readership, no, but I don't think that matters. We've had people like Voice of Reason come on here and try to indoctrinate people with fringe views in the past. And the internet is a breeding ground for extremism - and extremism is making our political environment... and the world... a whole lot more fucked up. Between Nazis, the BLM people who think that violence against whites or looting in the face of a policeman shooting people (which btw, probably makes racist people think I FUCKING KNEW THEY WERE ANIMALS - so probably perpetuates more racial divide; and I think really does a disservice when the victim is totally innocent), the violent anarchists and communists of Antifa, and jihadist fuckers like ISIS... we've got a lot of extremism on all sides to fight back against.

And I don't think this should be an echo chamber either. I seldom agree with you in this part of our forum - and that's not a problem. It would be boring (and weird) if we all had the same views. Political debate is healthy and normal. But there've also been times where we do agree on this part of our forum - despite having ideologically different opinions. I think that having well reasoned and political discussions is interesting and insightful (in that you and I might think differently, then we can get a better understanding of where we're coming from when we shape our opinions) - even when we disagree. And people who haven't made their minds up on particular opinions can hear facts and reasoning from various sides, and shape their own opinions.

But I have no time for Nazis and I think this shit is very worrying. There are already 2 more neo-Nazi rallies that have been scheduled in the aftermath of the Charlottesville rally. Personally, I can't help but see this as trying to aggravate the already very tense race relations in the US - and clearly neo-Nazis are feeling empowered right now. If this shit becomes the new normal in elements of the American right, then it creates legitimacy for Nazis in Western politics again. All of these dangerous extremists have no place in Western democracy, especially Nazis given the history of the 20th century.

When learned about the Jihadist group Hizb ut-Tahrir, who call themselves a non-violent group, but are clear supporters of violent terror, I was terrified by them. But I also never thought they would ever have a chance of enacting their long term goals. They see the best way to bring a global caliphate by playing by the rules of whatever nation's political system they are operating in - and having their own political operatives take office. But nowadays, I see our political culture so heavily radicalised that I simultaneously fear Nazis being elected as well as these Jihadist fucks. And even if these politicians themselves are not participating in the actual violence themselves, they will both tacitly and overtly support more shit. Which will further fracture society and create more differences.

I think people can have wildly different views politically - but have common goals for the national interest. The enemy isn't other moderates with differing views on the best way to solve our political problems. The enemy is the extremists on all side, who can only win by dividing and conquering. So in any place online where I can take a stance against these dangerous fuckers... I'm going to.

It might not change a fucking thing at all in the long run. But I just feel compelled to shit on views I think are dangerous and extremist. I don't want to live in a world where one day I could get my head kicked for no reason other than I'm half Iranian, or a world where some antifa anarchist shithead thinks you're a Nazi just because you voted for Brexit, then pepper sprays you and hits you with a tire iron (I saw a video of some antifa cunt do this to a kid in a MAGA hat, very fucked up), or where a mob fuckers with ISIS flags threaten to kill both of us for being infidels just because we reject the idea of living under sharia law.

tl;dr - fuck dangerous weirdos

 

[Danny]

12 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

lol it's called the broader discussion, obviously this incident hasn't got anything to do with Africa. I'm talking about the violence between both sets that has been going on 12 months or so and long term if these problems aren't addressed the shifting dynamics will see similar problems that have happened in Africa. 

Call it whatever you want, your focus in a topic about a white supremacists march is the potential for black people in America to treat whites as they've been treated

[El Profesor]

5 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Disagree, I think the "it goes without saying" laissez-faire attitude is naive. 

The first line of defence from social deviance is stigmatization. Most of our own behaviour and morality is the product of avoiding social stigma. If you remove or reduce the stigmatization of Nazi ideology you will increase the propensity for people to become neo-Nazi's. Whenever these scumbags come out disgust is a must response, not a token gesture. When they get themselves in the national and international news it is even more important that all social leaders show disgust. To respond ambiguously and neutrally instead rightly warrants alarm bells, it is pure leadership incompetence.

Trump is exceptionally dangerous because his incompetence regarding the basic functioning of leadership has a "yeah but..." brigade at the ready online. That he had to make the extravagant kind of statement he did is the culmination of previous poor form and his own lack of awareness and moral aptitude.

 

Good post. Hadn´t thought of the importance of social stigma to deterrent to obnoxious behavior and radicalism in the public sphere. In my opinion, a clear Trump statement was very important because the answer to this problem must come from the State. Anarchy and scalation of political violence is exactly what those nutters want. Showing that the State apparatus will not tolerate political violence and racism is important to prevent more political violence and racism.

I don´t think that 2017 USA is similar to Weimar. Perhaps the better historical comparison is post-Tito Yougoslavia? Despite the many nationalties and ehtnicities represent in significant numbers in their society, americans for a good part of their history managed well to build a sense of unity. It seems that this unity is slowly disintegrating. 

 

2 hours ago, Spike said:

TBH he is right about thing it has gotten pretty brutal in Zimbabwe and South Africa. Don't see how they are relevant though, different scenarios. Fucking South Africa man, that place is about to explode any minute.

Is it that bad in South Africa? I know Zuma is bad, but I thought they were somewhat stable. The country I think it could really explode, more than it is now with Boko Haram, is Nigeria. 

It is interesting, you mentioned Africa. I was looking the demographics projections to the next 50 years, and according to it african population will explode. This will create economic opportunities but also some very tough challenges, even more than many african countries face now. My hope is that they develop and their institutions mature to form strong and stable civil societies and a large middle class, but on the other hand a large % of young people can always cause civil unrest. If I´m not wrong that was the case in Egypt during the Arab Spring, and this could be repeated in other african nations.

 

[Spike]

32 minutes ago, El_Loco said:

Good post. Hadn´t thought of the importance of social stigma to deterrent to obnoxious behavior and radicalism in the public sphere. In my opinion, a clear Trump statement was very important because the answer to this problem must come from the State. Anarchy and scalation of political violence is exactly what those nutters want. Showing that the State apparatus will not tolerate political violence and racism is important to prevent more political violence and racism.

I don´t think that 2017 USA is similar to Weimar. Perhaps the better historical comparison is post-Tito Yougoslavia? Despite the many nationalties and ehtnicities represent in significant numbers in their society, americans for a good part of their history managed well to build a sense of unity. It seems that this unity is slowly disintegrating. 

 

Is it that bad in South Africa? I know Zuma is bad, but I thought they were somewhat stable. The country I think it could really explode, more than it is now with Boko Haram, is Nigeria. 

It is interesting, you mentioned Africa. I was looking the demographics projections to the next 50 years, and according to it african population will explode. This will create economic opportunities but also some very tough challenges, even more than many african countries face now. My hope is that they develop and their institutions mature to form strong and stable civil societies and a large middle class, but on the other hand a large % of young people can always cause civil unrest. If I´m not wrong that was the case in Egypt during the Arab Spring, and this could be repeated in other african nations.

 

Yeah SA is pretty bad from what I've heard from some people. Boers hate the Blacks and the Blacks hate the Boers. They pretty much self-segregate, neither want anything to do with each other and when they do it's a bunch of Boers tossing a Black kid from a truck or a bunch of Blacks murdering Boer farmers. Speaking of the later, they hire private military contractors to patrol their farms. At least a thousand farmers murdered. Nuts, eh?

I swear mate, half of the Boers live in Australia these days, they've all fled.

[El Profesor]

37 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah SA is pretty bad from what I've heard from some people. Boers hate the Blacks and the Blacks hate the Boers. They pretty much self-segregate, neither want anything to do with each other and when they do it's a bunch of Boers tossing a Black kid from a truck or a bunch of Blacks murdering Boer farmers. Speaking of the later, they hire private military contractors to patrol their farms. At least a thousand farmers murdered. Nuts, eh?

I swear mate, half of the Boers live in Australia these days, they've all fled.

I thought the killing of white farmers was unusual in South Africa, I knew the situation was bad in Zimbabwe, not in South Africa. But do you think the Boers really have a place in post-Apartheid south african society? Never really thought about this, but I´d guess no, much like the "pied noirs" in independent Algeria.

Australia also received many immigrants from Balkans, right? Is there any tension among them there?

I really wonder if the destiny of United States will be a balkanization of social and political affairs. Your ethnic origin could determine who you date, where you work, who you vote for... Not that it doesn´t now to a point, but in a much stronger way. Americans need to reinforce civic patriotism, in a way that doesn´t exclude any groups, otherwise the ethnic identities within their society will end up defining a good part of your existence, instead of your individual traits. 

[Fairy In Boots]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not saying you can't make valid points - nor am I calling you a Nazi. I just think it's worrying that a mass Nazi rally that uses terrorist techniques in conducting violence isn't getting fairly uniform condemnation. It's one thing if it's people exaggerating saying people are Nazis when they just have different views - but here we're talking about people marching under Nazi flags, making Nazi salutes, chanting shit like "Blood and Soil!" (which is a fucking Nazi slogan).

This forum doesn't have the largest readership, no, but I don't think that matters. We've had people like Voice of Reason come on here and try to indoctrinate people with fringe views in the past. And the internet is a breeding ground for extremism - and extremism is making our political environment... and the world... a whole lot more fucked up. Between Nazis, the BLM people who think that violence against whites or looting in the face of a policeman shooting people (which btw, probably makes racist people think I FUCKING KNEW THEY WERE ANIMALS - so probably perpetuates more racial divide; and I think really does a disservice when the victim is totally innocent), the violent anarchists and communists of Antifa, and jihadist fuckers like ISIS... we've got a lot of extremism on all sides to fight back against.

And I don't think this should be an echo chamber either. I seldom agree with you in this part of our forum - and that's not a problem. It would be boring (and weird) if we all had the same views. Political debate is healthy and normal. But there've also been times where we do agree on this part of our forum - despite having ideologically different opinions. I think that having well reasoned and political discussions is interesting and insightful (in that you and I might think differently, then we can get a better understanding of where we're coming from when we shape our opinions) - even when we disagree. And people who haven't made their minds up on particular opinions can hear facts and reasoning from various sides, and shape their own opinions.

But I have no time for Nazis and I think this shit is very worrying. There are already 2 more neo-Nazi rallies that have been scheduled in the aftermath of the Charlottesville rally. Personally, I can't help but see this as trying to aggravate the already very tense race relations in the US - and clearly neo-Nazis are feeling empowered right now. If this shit becomes the new normal in elements of the American right, then it creates legitimacy for Nazis in Western politics again. All of these dangerous extremists have no place in Western democracy, especially Nazis given the history of the 20th century.

When learned about the Jihadist group Hizb ut-Tahrir, who call themselves a non-violent group, but are clear supporters of violent terror, I was terrified by them. But I also never thought they would ever have a chance of enacting their long term goals. They see the best way to bring a global caliphate by playing by the rules of whatever nation's political system they are operating in - and having their own political operatives take office. But nowadays, I see our political culture so heavily radicalised that I simultaneously fear Nazis being elected as well as these Jihadist fucks. And even if these politicians themselves are not participating in the actual violence themselves, they will both tacitly and overtly support more shit. Which will further fracture society and create more differences.

I think people can have wildly different views politically - but have common goals for the national interest. The enemy isn't other moderates with differing views on the best way to solve our political problems. The enemy is the extremists on all side, who can only win by dividing and conquering. So in any place online where I can take a stance against these dangerous fuckers... I'm going to.

It might not change a fucking thing at all in the long run. But I just feel compelled to shit on views I think are dangerous and extremist. I don't want to live in a world where one day I could get my head kicked for no reason other than I'm half Iranian, or a world where some antifa anarchist shithead thinks you're a Nazi just because you voted for Brexit, then pepper sprays you and hits you with a tire iron (I saw a video of some antifa cunt do this to a kid in a MAGA hat, very fucked up), or where a mob fuckers with ISIS flags threaten to kill both of us for being infidels just because we reject the idea of living under sharia law.

tl;dr - fuck dangerous weirdos

 

That's the Internet & society in general, it's moved to a place where the vast majority make decisions about what people are like off one sentence. Everybody has to be right and anybody that doesn't share our opinions is "bigoted" or "regressive" type of thing. Online is for the vast majority now basically social grandstanding and displaying ones virtue by always appearing to be on the correct side of an argument rather than actual discussion. The media are a huge factor in this shift initially and they played apart & still do to this day although it's organic within this generation now. 

Of course I'd be worried about a Nazi movement but part of the problem is than when the media/society shifts its focus it distorts our perception of how bad it is. These marches are several hundred people in probably the worst area of the states for racism, it's hardly something to keep us awake at night. They've probably protested several times this year already and for many years and been a fringe element. Nobody gave a fuck until Antifa & BLM turned up and a scene from the warriors unfolded. Antifa & BLM worry me more because they're having large effects in cities with young disgruntled kids flocking to their banners, they're just as  bad as the nazis but the bollocks about the system being corrupt resonates. Let's not forget BLM have actively murdered serving police officers & Antifa have assualted multiple people at many rallies. 

6 hours ago, Danny said:

Call it whatever you want, your focus in a topic about a white supremacists march is the potential for black people in America to treat whites as they've been treated

Lol a harsh reality of life & humanity in general is those with power shit on those without. Look at cities with predominantly black populations do white politicians get a look in? You're going to see all the perceived slights used as justification for inequality in the system to "right wrongs" no doubt. It's going to go like Sourh Africa it's too easy to play the race card in the states, fuckers like rev Jackson have made entire careers of sticking it to the white man. White flight will accelerate the process, NZ & Australia I think will be where most flock. 

And we've got to this point by questions about my original comment in which I said the "browning" would not be peaceful, as you can see it's not going to be peaceful. There's no agenda here I'm just calling it as I see it. 

[Panflute]

Some idiot in The Observer already tried to pin this on the Russians. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Trump has said he only condemned Nazis because of pressure from the "truly bad media." So I'm not sure he's actually condemned anything, other than those people for being run over. By Nazis.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 hours ago, Panflute said:

Some idiot in The Observer already tried to pin this on the Russians. 

I don't think Russia has done this, but I'm sure Putin and pals are loving it. Chaos in America is their goal.