Matchday 2 (Group H) - Tuesday 26th September, 2017

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Kane isn't a better player than Lewandowski or Suarez. When England go to the world cup, or when/if spurs get some clutch games in the Champions league you'll all settle. He is very very good, but not the worlds best striker.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Tanksie said:

Kane isn't a better player than Lewandowski or Suarez. When England go to the world cup, or when/if spurs get some clutch games in the Champions league you'll all settle. He is very very good, but not the worlds best striker.

can't blame it solely down on him when the rest of the team doesn't perform so he doesn't get the best service though?

[Danny]

1 hour ago, Tanksie said:

Kane isn't a better player than Lewandowski or Suarez. When England go to the world cup, or when/if spurs get some clutch games in the Champions league you'll all settle. He is very very good, but not the worlds best striker.

Clutch games....can we leave the Americanisms out.

I don't think anyone's said Kane is the best striker in the world (maybe storts) but he will out himself up there this season in Europe, already started will with Dortmund.

[SirBalon]

I’d say that right now Kane is in amongst the top 9s in the world. Kane is a pure 9 though... How many pure 9s can we name? Because Suárez for me is more than that. 

[DeadLinesman]

Are we really comparing Kane dealing with the shittest England team in recent memory and an upcoming Tottenham to Surez with Uruguay/Barsa and Lewi with Poland/Bayern? Jesus wept.

[SirBalon]

26 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Are we really comparing Kane dealing with the shittest England team in recent memory and an upcoming Tottenham to Surez with Uruguay/Barsa and Lewi with Poland/Bayern? Jesus wept.

The state of the England team isn't Kane's fault (I don't think the England team is that bad either) and for Spurs he's the main man up front scoring important goals.  Kane is up there at this moment in time.  Later on in the season where titles and trophies are decided is where we get a clear picture of which ones are really at the top of the tree.

[God is Haaland]

On the top you can see the shoes of the goal-line referee. He's just 10m far away. What a useless bastard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you really think Kane is top 3, watch England-Iceland in the Euros.

[SirBalon]

5 minutes ago, True Bender said:

What a useless bastard.

The problem is that a conspiracy accusation will be thrown around and sometimes it isn't that way at all (although it could be without a doubt).  He saw it!  There are pictures aimed at both the ref and the assistant almost immediately and they look to have faces of being more afraid or under extreme pressure than anything else.

If you watch the replay (aside from the images of the officials I commented on) you will observe that the assistant on the line sees it perfectly.  For me it was pressure and because nobody made any decision, it is easier to carry on and whatever happens happens and it can be left to an error.  In other words...  Somebody shat in their pants.  It wasn't just a penalty (which would still have to be converted mind you), it was a blatant red card!

Just another note:  Sergio Ramos has been complaining about the refereeing standards for two weeks now in the Spanish media, and not just domestic refereeing! (food for thought)

[Cicero]

I'd take Kane over any striker in Europe. 

[Panflute]

Kane is phenomenal at the moment. I don't think his England performances undermine that. After all, players like Seedorf and Van Persie were never great for their NT but they still managed to be among the greatest of their generation.

The referee was useless in the Dortmund - Real Madrid game but to say Dortmund was the better team is absolutely laughable. Attacking football does not equal qualitatively good football, and with the open spaces left to the likes of Carvajal and Bale it's a miracle they only conceded 3 goals.

This was Bosz's tactical weakness as Ajax as well: as long as they played a team they could dominate, it all looked great, but the defensive positioning was abysmal. This caused the huge discrepancies between their home and away games in the Europa League. Yeah, Dortmund got stiffed by the referee in both matches, but they should also ask themselves why they concede so many chances against opponents capable of some clinical finishing.

[SirBalon]

Dortmund were not the better team but football matches end up being something due to small details.  What could've been had the situation revolving Ramos being sent-off and a penalty we'll now never know.  SO the outcome of Real Madrid being the more balanced side in that game has a lot of mythology revolved around factual history.  Sometimes fantasy is created and made real from sensitive moments.

[SirBalon]

25 minutes ago, Panflute said:

This was Bosz's tactical weakness as Ajax as well: as long as they played a team they could dominate, it all looked great

So we could say that Bosz is a good future option for an elite club?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Are we really comparing Kane dealing with the shittest England team in recent memory and an upcoming Tottenham to Surez with Uruguay/Barsa and Lewi with Poland/Bayern? Jesus wept.

To be fair, Uruguay aren't great right now but that is more down to the tedious tactics of Oscar Tabarez. However, that in a way proves our point. He's not getting great service and not scoring much either. He's not performing great for the NT while Kane who doesn't get gifts of service at his club is doing extraodinarily.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Danny said:

Clutch games....can we leave the Americanisms out.

I don't think anyone's said Kane is the best striker in the world (maybe storts) but he will out himself up there this season in Europe, already started will with Dortmund.

Jesus wept you brits get so wound up over different accents 

I'm pretty sure we're all saying that actually.

4 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I’d say that right now Kane is in amongst the top 9s in the world. Kane is a pure 9 though... How many pure 9s can we name? Because Suárez for me is more than that. 

Thats how I see Paolo Guerrero (and a lot of South America for that matter) a complete number 9 who does more than just score. Of course Paolo's goalscoring record isn't enough to compete with that of Suarez or Lewandowski, but lets put him on Barcelona or (back on) Bayern and see how many he'll get.

[Panflute]

30 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Dortmund were not the better team but football matches end up being something due to small details.  What could've been had the situation revolving Ramos being sent-off and a penalty we'll now never know.  SO the outcome of Real Madrid being the more balanced side in that game has a lot of mythology revolved around factual history.  Sometimes fantasy is created and made real from sensitive moments.

Past the first 7 or 8 minutes, Dortmund never looked like they were going to win that game. To ignore all of that in favour of a hypothetical match that might have taken place had the referee made a different call in 1 situation is disingenuous.

28 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

So we could say that Bosz is a good future option for an elite club?

Not if he doesn't work on this clear liability in his tactical vision. Even if you are Bayern Munich or Chelsea, you should have a plan B ready for when your opponent nets an early goal or otherwise frustrates your method of play. Relying solely on attack works against Eredivisie sides, but it's telling that Dortmund has so far faced two top sides and both have been able to exploit their defensive weakness with relative ease.

Top coaches are able to adapt to different circumstances, and at least at Ajax Bosz hasn't shown yet that he's capable of doing that well. We'll have to see what the rest of his season at Dortmund holds to see if he has evolved. In this light, their remaining group games should be very interesting.

[Panflute]

On another note, great as his two goals were, I feel Bale and Carvajal were men of the match for me above Ronaldo. For all the shit he gets, Bale seems a lot more composed and patient than Ronaldo at the moment.

[Cicero]

Probably due to trying to catch up with Messi's staggering numbers. 

 

[SirBalon]

40 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Past the first 7 or 8 minutes, Dortmund never looked like they were going to win that game. To ignore all of that in favour of a hypothetical match that might have taken place had the referee made a different call in 1 situation is disingenuous.

It’s not all that disingenuous to think that the away team has a player sent of with you also getting a penalty changes what may have been.

But I agree that what was, was. With that the home side should look to impose themselves on the situation, especially using the fact you’ve got the away side on the ropes in the early minutes. 

Dortmund do have to look closely at the situation because clubs with massively less resources in Spain so far this season have given Real a better game and in some cases taken points off them or actually beaten them. 

[Stan]

3 hours ago, Blue said:

To be fair, Uruguay aren't great right now but that is more down to the tedious tactics of Oscar Tabarez. However, that in a way proves our point. He's not getting great service and not scoring much either. He's not performing great for the NT while Kane who doesn't get gifts of service at his club is doing extraodinarily.

he has superb service at Spurs through the likes of Alli, Eriksen and even their full backs Tripper and Davies.

3 hours ago, Blue said:

Jesus wept you brits get so wound up over different accents 

I'm pretty sure we're all saying that actually.

 

genuinely hadn't heard the phrase 'clutch' player before TF365. 

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

he has superb service at Spurs through the likes of Alli, Eriksen and even their full backs Tripper and Davies.

genuinely hadn't heard the phrase 'clutch' player before TF365. 

Never said it wasn't good service... all 3 are great players but they aren't Neymar/Messi. Come on mate haha

And the second point in there was "I'm pretty sure we were all saying Kane is the best 9 in the world"