Catalonia and Independence

[Inverted]

[SirBalon]

"He stays"

For those that followed the Neymar departure from Barça saga, they'll know what this cartoon panel is all about... Although satirically funny, there is an issue surrounding Piqué at the moment now while he's concentrated with the Spain national side in Madrid.

He has been quite vocal on the 'Catalan Referendum' and has had all sorts of stuff thrown at him in terms of verbal trash from both the centralist Spanish media (what's new there), fans and his colleague in the Spain side, Sergio Ramos.  Little has it ever meant that Gerard Piqué has reiterated dozens of times that aside from his sentiments to his homeland of Catalunya, that he also feels very Spanish...  Little has it ever mattered that he has consistently showed and proved that the Spain national side means a lot to him and even dressing his children in the Spain strip publicly.  Little has it mattered that whenever he's been publicly asked by the Spanish media if he is committed to Spain that he has always answered yes.

No!

And here, using the the Gerard Piqué phenomenon because of how vocal and public he is in his opinions....  Because he is such a public figure, here we have an excellent example of how strange Spanish culture and society is, a very good example of how they work.

Spanish society as a whole has no grey areas.  As a culture, Spaniards in general, don't know how to be pragmatic because pragmatism is something very suspicious.  Put it this way...  Because this is generally a football forum, I will use another football figure to show this phenomenon clearly...  The ex-Spain national team head coach Vicente del Bosque is curiously one of the most pragmatic people in Spain's celebrity world (not that Del Bosque would ever like to be called a celebrity)...  He (Del Bosque) has been criticised consistently for his pragmatism and there has always been something about his extreme diplomatic nature that has grated on most Spaniards.  They just don't get it!  You HAVE to be either THIS or THAT!  What's this about being in the middle because you see both points of view...  WHAT!  HEY!  Nooooooo....  You understand both sides of the fence?  Come oooooooon....  Spill the beans mate, there's something about you that just ain't right and we want to find out.

Ok...  Enough verbal jargon and to the point on Gerard Piqué...

As I said, Piqué has consistently stated his point, consistently put himself on one side or another when it comes to his personal beliefs and opinions.  Infact he couldn't be more Spanish and clear to the point because he always sides with one thing or another and there are no grey areas there. It may seem contradictory to the low intelligence levelled Spaniard because "HOW CAN YOU BE IN FAVOUR OF THE REFERENDUM AND STILL BELIEVE YOURSELF AS A SPANIARD"...  (Something that Vicente del Bosque also consistently was vocal about but nobody threw stones at him because to question his "Spanishness" is to be locked up for madness)...  How can this be?  I've been vocal in my circle of friends and associates about the right for the Catalans to vote and express themselves and amongst my Spanish friends and family I'm an odd case.  Infact living in Spain for 10 years my political views were seen as ridiculous and very suspicious.  How can someone vote for this and then vote for that?  How can someone say that they see the good points of the centre-left and also the good points of the centre-right!!!!  Aaaaah....  The lefties called me a fascist and those on the right of the political spectrum called me a communist, separatist and even a REPUBLICAN although I always mentioned ma favoured position on the side of Monarchism!  No way José...  You're either this or you're either that...  Choose because you seem dangerous to us and our operating system in our brain can't figure you out, we're getting malfunction red lights flashing overtime when we talk to you!

So now we've had a massive call from many in the journalism media for Piqué to abandon the Spain national side for ever.  His latest tweets and quotes to the press on camera show he's a separatist (apparently) and that playing in La Roja is a contradiction in terms and almost blasphemy.  Obviously he's not a separatist, for anyone with a normal functioning brain cell he's not that way inclined at all.  But his vocal sentiments that the Catalan people should be able to vote democratically means to those I've been describing to you as exactly this...  A separatist scumbag that continues to wear a shirt that expresses "Españolismo".

So L'Équipe (the french Sports journal) offered this cartoon piece yesterday...  Obviously they're French and they're taking a swipe at Gerard Piqué because of what he did when the Neymar saga was going on and his tweet stating that Neymar would be staying at FC Barcelona.  The French are like that, they think they're funny and to be honest they are at times very creative and humours with these things like their puppet comic satirical tv programme 'Les Guignols'.  But I've chosen to use their inspired moment of comedy satire to express my point of view, to also choose and use Gerard Piqué in a decent enough manner to show those that just don't get all this, what Spanish society is like upto a certain point and why this is all so difficult.  Why there will never be rest, why the scars are too deep and fundamentally why as things stand in Spanish culture nobody will ever be able to unite and understand one another to perfection and without suspicion of any sort.

SirBalon's rant is over for today...

[Panna King]

11 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Just like any monarch today, they're controlled by the state and they will be the voice of that.  He should've had the balls he had when he chose his future wife and merely at least mentioned the ott brutality by the policing authorities and most of all spoken in a language he manipulates to perfection which is Catalan.

Royals are controlled by the Bilderberg group.

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, VanPanna said:

Royals are controlled by the Bilderberg group.

They're controlled by various sectors of those that really make decisions.  Trust me, I'm not trying to defend the King of Spain on this but the way he's always been throughout his public life and what he's known for, it isn't like him to have come out with that speech.  I'm not placing or taking away whatever beliefs he may or may not have in all of this but his speech was the identical manner in which the government of Spain have been doing it and that's enough for me to understand that this is manipulated.

I'll say another things too...  There is a considerable large minority in Spain that believe that the country should be a republic and this will have pushed the call for that movement to become more active.

All the King had to add within the speech of the referendum's illegality was to at least say that he was sad in the manner the situation escalated on the 1st of October. There were various ways he could've dressed what occurred without swaying to one side or the other but then with that I'll go to my previous post (the Piqué thing) where I talk about how Spaniards see grey areas and the middle ground.  He (the King) would've been labelled and each individual would've interpreted it in the way they wanted it which would've meant problems for the King.  Diplomacy in Spanish society is seen as a copout!  Choose a corner and stick to it.

[God is Haaland]

The whole plan is so laughable. This clown didn't prepare anything and it would take atleast 2~3 years to reenter the European market, even if Madrid doesn't veto.

Here's what would actually happen should Catalonia leave(somehow):

1. Catalonia's export oriented companies would move to Spain. (80% of Catalonia's exports go to the EU market atm and unlike Catalonia's government the companies are well prepared. About 800 German firms already have a scheme printed that would allow them to move within a couple of days.)
2. All major banks would leave Catalonia. (Sabadel already did)
3. The government would be unable react. The three parties governing atm have pretty much nothing in common except for their wish to secede.. Political choas is preprogramed.
4. The working middle class would move with their employer. Catalonia would consist of mostly old people.
5. Catalonia would become the poorest region on the Iberian peninsula in record time.
6. Catalonia would have to get on their knees and beg Madrid to let them join the EU.
7. By the time Madrid doesn't Veto them anymore, Catalnia is probably already so poor, EU wouldn't let them on(Maastricht contract).

[Kowabunga]

Well, if anyone missed the 1-October. This is a recap of the preparation of the day and the day itself as explained to kids in the thematic public channel for kids of Catalonia. Do you want to troll the State and stage a coup? We explain.  Dope:

 

 

[Honey Honey]

13 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

The whole plan is so laughable. This clown didn't prepare anything and it would take atleast 2~3 years to reenter the European market, even if Madrid doesn't veto.

Here's what would actually happen should Catalonia leave(somehow):

1. Catalonia's export oriented companies would move to Spain. (80% of Catalonia's exports go to the EU market atm and unlike Catalonia's government the companies are well prepared. About 800 German firms already have a scheme printed that would allow them to move within a couple of days.)
2. All major banks would leave Catalonia. (Sabadel already did)
3. The government would be unable react. The three parties governing atm have pretty much nothing in common except for their wish to secede.. Political choas is preprogramed.
4. The working middle class would move with their employer. Catalonia would consist of mostly old people.
5. Catalonia would become the poorest region on the Iberian peninsula in record time.
6. Catalonia would have to get on their knees and beg Madrid to let them join the EU.
7. By the time Madrid doesn't Veto them anymore, Catalnia is probably already so poor, EU wouldn't let them on(Maastricht contract).

Those forecasts are based solely on overly one sided analysis that presumes Spain and the ECB face no pressures simply by an export business moving. That creates a myth that Spain and the EU can deliberately destroy Catalonia without economic recoil which is both foolish and immoral. Though not an unlikely attempt in order to hold the rest of Spain together with fear and coercion, a common position of the EU elite.

Due to the precarious nature of Spanish government finances, the international debt markets, the imbalances within the €urozone and spooked investors, even the most immoral dinosaurs should be able to come to the table for an orderly exit.

If Catalonia leaves in an unruly manner then Spain is in for a horrid time and precariously positioned southern states will be sitting on the toilet shitting themselves by the potential domino effect of some of the NPL's collapsing for good.

[God is Haaland]

1 hour ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Those forecasts are based solely on overly one sided analysis that presumes Spain and the ECB face no pressures simply by an export business moving. That creates a myth that Spain and the EU can deliberately destroy Catalonia without economic recoil which is both foolish and immoral.

How? I never implied that.

[Kowabunga]

The damage (to Catalan and Spanish economy overall) these suicidal dumbfucks may do is off the charts.

[Honey Honey]

2 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

How? I never implied that.

Most of the points, if not all of them, but certainly numbers 4, 5, 6 and 7, can only come true if there are no economic pressures elsewhere and there is a deliberate desire to destroy Catalonia by allowing them to come true. It wouldn't be a self inflicted product of not having a plan, it would be the product of a deliberate cold war enacted by Spain and the Euro elite. 

The idea that if someone votes to become independent from their supersized middle man local council (aka the Spanish Government), whilst wanting to keep the level of power above that (EU & €uro) in tact, somehow have to wait 2 or 3 years of economic destruction without currency support or open trade is all part of a propaganda tool the EU willingly hands its major players, we saw it used on Scotland.

The separatists are banking on the idea that the Euro elite and the people beneath it are not backward lunatics. Though to a certain extent Greece found out some of them are. 

[Spike]

On 10/4/2017 at 3:25 AM, SirBalon said:

 

"He stays"

For those that followed the Neymar departure from Barça saga, they'll know what this cartoon panel is all about... Although satirically funny, there is an issue surrounding Piqué at the moment now while he's concentrated with the Spain national side in Madrid.

He has been quite vocal on the 'Catalan Referendum' and has had all sorts of stuff thrown at him in terms of verbal trash from both the centralist Spanish media (what's new there), fans and his colleague in the Spain side, Sergio Ramos.  Little has it ever meant that Gerard Piqué has reiterated dozens of times that aside from his sentiments to his homeland of Catalunya, that he also feels very Spanish...  Little has it ever mattered that he has consistently showed and proved that the Spain national side means a lot to him and even dressing his children in the Spain strip publicly.  Little has it mattered that whenever he's been publicly asked by the Spanish media if he is committed to Spain that he has always answered yes.

No!

And here, using the the Gerard Piqué phenomenon because of how vocal and public he is in his opinions....  Because he is such a public figure, here we have an excellent example of how strange Spanish culture and society is, a very good example of how they work.

Spanish society as a whole has no grey areas.  As a culture, Spaniards in general, don't know how to be pragmatic because pragmatism is something very suspicious.  Put it this way...  Because this is generally a football forum, I will use another football figure to show this phenomenon clearly...  The ex-Spain national team head coach Vicente del Bosque is curiously one of the most pragmatic people in Spain's celebrity world (not that Del Bosque would ever like to be called a celebrity)...  He (Del Bosque) has been criticised consistently for his pragmatism and there has always been something about his extreme diplomatic nature that has grated on most Spaniards.  They just don't get it!  You HAVE to be either THIS or THAT!  What's this about being in the middle because you see both points of view...  WHAT!  HEY!  Nooooooo....  You understand both sides of the fence?  Come oooooooon....  Spill the beans mate, there's something about you that just ain't right and we want to find out.

Ok...  Enough verbal jargon and to the point on Gerard Piqué...

As I said, Piqué has consistently stated his point, consistently put himself on one side or another when it comes to his personal beliefs and opinions.  Infact he couldn't be more Spanish and clear to the point because he always sides with one thing or another and there are no grey areas there. It may seem contradictory to the low intelligence levelled Spaniard because "HOW CAN YOU BE IN FAVOUR OF THE REFERENDUM AND STILL BELIEVE YOURSELF AS A SPANIARD"...  (Something that Vicente del Bosque also consistently was vocal about but nobody threw stones at him because to question his "Spanishness" is to be locked up for madness)...  How can this be?  I've been vocal in my circle of friends and associates about the right for the Catalans to vote and express themselves and amongst my Spanish friends and family I'm an odd case.  Infact living in Spain for 10 years my political views were seen as ridiculous and very suspicious.  How can someone vote for this and then vote for that?  How can someone say that they see the good points of the centre-left and also the good points of the centre-right!!!!  Aaaaah....  The lefties called me a fascist and those on the right of the political spectrum called me a communist, separatist and even a REPUBLICAN although I always mentioned ma favoured position on the side of Monarchism!  No way José...  You're either this or you're either that...  Choose because you seem dangerous to us and our operating system in our brain can't figure you out, we're getting malfunction red lights flashing overtime when we talk to you!

So now we've had a massive call from many in the journalism media for Piqué to abandon the Spain national side for ever.  His latest tweets and quotes to the press on camera show he's a separatist (apparently) and that playing in La Roja is a contradiction in terms and almost blasphemy.  Obviously he's not a separatist, for anyone with a normal functioning brain cell he's not that way inclined at all.  But his vocal sentiments that the Catalan people should be able to vote democratically means to those I've been describing to you as exactly this...  A separatist scumbag that continues to wear a shirt that expresses "Españolismo".

So L'Équipe (the french Sports journal) offered this cartoon piece yesterday...  Obviously they're French and they're taking a swipe at Gerard Piqué because of what he did when the Neymar saga was going on and his tweet stating that Neymar would be staying at FC Barcelona.  The French are like that, they think they're funny and to be honest they are at times very creative and humours with these things like their puppet comic satirical tv programme 'Les Guignols'.  But I've chosen to use their inspired moment of comedy satire to express my point of view, to also choose and use Gerard Piqué in a decent enough manner to show those that just don't get all this, what Spanish society is like upto a certain point and why this is all so difficult.  Why there will never be rest, why the scars are too deep and fundamentally why as things stand in Spanish culture nobody will ever be able to unite and understand one another to perfection and without suspicion of any sort.

SirBalon's rant is over for today...

Well, know what happened the last time someone said 'se queda'  Catalan 'freedom' confirmed. 

I'm a hardcore pragmatist, so the Spanish would be repulsed by me. I find it quite quaint that there seems to be a cultural dissonance to feeling 'Spanish and Catalan'. The two a intrinsically linked with eachother, I don't think a person can feel Catalan without feeling Spanish at the same time no? Is it because people conflate being 'Spanish' with being 'Castellano'?

[Spike]

@SirBalon @Kowabunga Are you ready for the media field day concerning Pique's relationship with Shakira ending? I wonder how this can be spun into a pro-separatism story...  Surely there is a ham-fisted metaphor hidden in there somewhere

[God is Haaland]

I have some PNGs for @SirBalon

[Kowabunga]

The Catalan Government wanted to weaponize their regional police with a "war arsenal". They asked for 850 assault and sniper rifles as well as 5,4 millions of shells. Spanish Defence department aborted the purchase as they considered it "way past" a logical amount.

Did they want those 50 .338 Lapua Magnum Rifles in order to hunt deers in the pyreenees?

Aborted purchase, but keep in mind there have been 2 strange thefts of weapon arsenals both in Portugal and Madrid this year.

 

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, Kowabunga said:

The Catalan Government wanted to weaponize their regional police with a "war arsenal". They asked for 850 assault and sniper rifles as well as 5,4 millions of shells. Spanish Defence department aborted the purchase as they considered it "way past" a logical amount.

Did they want those 50 .338 Lapua Magnum Rifles in order to hunt deers in the pyreenees?

Aborted purchase, but keep in mind there have been 2 strange thefts of weapon arsenals both in Portugal and Madrid this year.

 

Obviously they want to "unknowingly" create an army of sorts.

Just like most fringe groups, unfortunately those right at the top of the tree in the separatist groups will be extremely happy at the way the police forces acted on Oct 1st.  A peaceful situation that day with the final outcome of the referendum not being valid would've been unfruitful.

[God is Haaland]

8 hours ago, Kowabunga said:

The Catalan Government wanted to weaponize their regional police with a "war arsenal". They asked for 850 assault and sniper rifles as well as 5,4 millions of shells. Spanish Defence department aborted the purchase as they considered it "way past" a logical amount.

Did they want those 50 .338 Lapua Magnum Rifles in order to hunt deers in the pyreenees?

Aborted purchase, but keep in mind there have been 2 strange thefts of weapon arsenals both in Portugal and Madrid this year.

 

.338 can penetrate military grade body armor at 1200m.

Those Lapuas can also be used against lightly armored vehicles(APCs and light AFVs), if you use the correct ammo.

 

[SirBalon]

14 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said:

I have some PNGs for @SirBalon

Can't see any of them mate.

[SirBalon]

15 hours ago, Spike said:

@SirBalon @Kowabunga Are you ready for the media field day concerning Pique's relationship with Shakira ending? I wonder how this can be spun into a pro-separatism story...  Surely there is a ham-fisted metaphor hidden in there somewhere

Only in Spain can they use a sports personality to sell sensationalism revolving any of this.  Yes it's true Piqué is vocal, but so are many others in the media spotlight and yet the lamps aren't shining on them.  The thing is both sides are using Piqué which is hilarious seeing as he has disassociated himself from both parties in the sense of politicising this.

[God is Haaland]

Just now, SirBalon said:

Can't see any of them mate.

You are always looking too late.

 

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, BartraPique1932 said:

You are always looking too late.

 

I don't know what kind of PNGs you''re using, but they come up with empty boxes and a question mark in the centre! 

[Kowabunga]

Far right ¿blaveros? clash with Pan-Catalanists in Valencia.

 

[Kowabunga]

1 hour ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

i cant think of the name right now but a few days ago, a catalan radio commentator called to give a quick briefing to the hispanic listeners of what exactly what going on and why. he admitted to being a die hard Barcelona fan but he didnt believe in the 'independence' movement because it was simply a fascist/brainwash movenent by the top leaders of catalonia. He said his club from day one had been pro-independence and he didnt agree with them getting involved. (nice to see that not all cules are stubborn but i guess he is different from the ones here) 

 

This is conflictive. The current push is rather a grassroots force pushing the elite on the brink (and not the other way around). But in turn the grassroots organizations were subsidized by the very same elite and feeding with the "un sol poble" totalitarian undertones. Methodical Gene Sharp handbook with controlled and punctual use of violence, plenty of agit-prop, this is now expected to turn real ugly.

However the more recent development so far is surge of reactive Far Right Spanish nationalism. After a long slumber it's back.  Very disorganised, though. 

Anyways since tomorrow 18.00 local time Mayhem arrives. That's when Puigdemont is expected to declare some sort of independence in the Catalan Parliament with a separatist demonstration outside the building. Interestingly secession is not going to be voted in any case (I wonder if it's in order to spare members of Parliament from serving jail terms) but just declared or informed (it may be in a rethorical or postponed way).

If so, the General Prosecutor (on behalf of the verdict of the Constitutional Court) is going to send Law Enforcement to arrest Puigdemont indicted of rebellion, and Rajoy has no choice but to suspend autonomy and/or declare state of exception. Additionally 11, 12 ,13, 14, 15, 16 October  optional "separatist" "strikes"/"lockouts"/"mob rule" have been called again. Tune in for violence.

[SirBalon]

6 hours ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

i cant think of the name right now but a few days ago, a catalan radio commentator called to give a quick briefing to the hispanic listeners of what exactly what going on and why. he admitted to being a die hard Barcelona fan but he didnt believe in the 'independence' movement because it was simply a fascist/brainwash movenent by the top leaders of catalonia. He said his club from day one had been pro-independence and he didnt agree with them getting involved. (nice to see that not all cules are stubborn but i guess he is different from the ones here) 

 

He's right on many factors but incorrect in saying that FC Barcelona are pro-independence.  FC Barcelona is a democratic football club and has its board voted in by its fans (the paying members)...  Each board throughout history has had its own ideals and ideological beliefs... They have been more or less vocal depending on the personalities that have governed the club for their tenure.  The football club is an entity and entities can't be in any way inclined to something such as separatism.

What YOU DO HAVE with FC Barcelona is that it is a "Catalanista" football club...  But be careful with what you read into that word because being "Catalanista" doesn't in any way shape or form mean that you are a separatist, something that Piqué has been accused of and is incorrect.  The issue's root where this is concerned isn't what Barça may or may not be, but the interpretation others give it...  The INTERPRETATION OTHERS WANT TO GIVE IT!  Those with issues that also need sorting out as much as others are those that twist things for their own ideological benefit...  Here we have another infamous Spanish case of "labelling".

Another thing I want to add where FC Barcelona are concerned where misinterpretation seems to get inflicted on others like some moronic disease, is that Barça has had a historic tendency to sway with the general consensus and feeling of the majority of its members.  So if the "in thing" is to take Estalades into the stadium because that's what they want to do, then the club takes a blind eye to the situation because Barça is a very political football club and always has been.  AGAIN though, none of that means that this is the formal position the club is taking.  The club fundamentally and historically stands for freedom of expression and my only problem with that because I don't see it all so clean is that if you want to take a flag of Spain into the Camp Nou (as a Barça fan) just as others take in la Senyera or la Estelada, then you are advised at the door not to do so.  But any normal person with two cents worth of brain cells will understand why this is done although in my personal view that part is wrong and only feeds the situation that Catalunya is actually going through which is that very large proportion of the Catalan society are actually pro-union but aren't as vocal as those that express dissent...  But then again when or where in history has dissent ever been the more silent of movements?

[Panna King]

All kicking off in other parts of Spain as they want to be independent also. 

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, VanPaddy said:

All kicking off in other parts of Spain as they want to be independent also. 

This is exactly what I’ve been saying for a long time. There are areas like Galicia, Euskadi (Basque Region) and Valencia where there are serious movements and sentiments.