Are Liverpool Under Klopp Like Spurs Under Hoddle?

[LFCMadLad]

Anybody who expected Klopp to just waltz in and blow Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal out of the water within 2 seasons are absolutely off their fucking nut 

Hes a team builder that isn’t obsessed with throwing money at all his problems. 

Give him time. 

[HK85]

5 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Anybody who expected Klopp to just waltz in and blow Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal out of the water within 2 seasons are absolutely off their fucking nut 

Hes a team builder that isn’t obsessed with throwing money at all his problems. 

Give him time. 

He was going to throw a fortune at Southampton to solve his biggest problem. 

[LFCMadLad]

9 minutes ago, HK85 said:

He was going to throw a fortune at Southampton to solve his biggest problem. 

I said he isn’t obsessed with it, not that he can’t realise when buying a replacement is the best option. 

[SirBalon]

11 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

Anybody who expected Klopp to just waltz in and blow Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal out of the water within 2 seasons are absolutely off their fucking nut 

Hes a team builder that isn’t obsessed with throwing money at all his problems. 

Give him time. 

Manchester United didn’t need blowing out of the water, Arsenal is better not to enter this debate and Spurs have a lot on their plate.

Klopp bought a keeper and he turned out to be worse than Mignolet (the odds on that must’ve been bloody long) which took some doing. 

[Rick]

17 hours ago, LFCMadLad said:

We have the best defensive record in the league at home so things aren’t that bad. A couple of additions and some tactical tweaks when playing away should see us right. 

Ive criticised Klopp plenty but people need to calm down. He’s only just started a 6 year project and when the defensive side of our game comes together then get ready 

We are in the bottom three for goals conceded away from home! Teams come to anfield with a defensive mentality, when we go away from hom they come at us more. Klopp should have fixed our defensive issues in the two years he has been here, but instead he has barely fucking addressed them. 

We have the best front four in the league after City. We have a bottom 10 defence. That isn't acceptable. Why the fuck do we still have Mignolet?? Why does Moreno still play even thoigh Milner showed him up last season and we bough Robertson?? Why does he insist on Gomez at RB when he is clearly a CB and we have TAA?? Why is Henderson still the captain when he shouldnt even be in the first 11??? 

Sick to death of asking the same questions of Klopp. I admit that we ended up ahead of schedule last season by getting back into the CL, but since the summer we haven't pushed on at all. You can't look at our summer business and say it was acceptable for the money we should have available. Salah was an excellent buy, and I like the look of Robertson and Solanke. But to spend 35m on Ox-Chamberlain and COMPLETELY ignore our CB and GK situations was fucking criminal. We could have gotten DeVrij in thd summer, easily. 

[SirBalon]

49 minutes ago, FOYM said:

We are in the bottom three for goals conceded away from home! Teams come to anfield with a defensive mentality, when we go away from hom they come at us more. Klopp should have fixed our defensive issues in the two years he has been here, but instead he has barely fucking addressed them. 

We have the best front four in the league after City. We have a bottom 10 defence. That isn't acceptable. Why the fuck do we still have Mignolet?? Why does Moreno still play even thoigh Milner showed him up last season and we bough Robertson?? Why does he insist on Gomez at RB when he is clearly a CB and we have TAA?? Why is Henderson still the captain when he shouldnt even be in the first 11??? 

Sick to death of asking the same questions of Klopp. I admit that we ended up ahead of schedule last season by getting back into the CL, but since the summer we haven't pushed on at all. You can't look at our summer business and say it was acceptable for the money we should have available. Salah was an excellent buy, and I like the look of Robertson and Solanke. But to spend 35m on Ox-Chamberlain and COMPLETELY ignore our CB and GK situations was fucking criminal. We could have gotten DeVrij in thd summer, easily. 

I may be wrong, but for me the defensive issues aren't all down to bad players although there is an obvious case to question with some names.  For me it's Klopp's insistence on playing his system do or die.  That high energy sapping pressing game doesn't always work and when something doesn't always give you positive results, you end up obviously being inconsistent.

Some games Liverpool have you off your seat in excitement and other moments it's a total mess...  Not a good building block in my view.  What players could Liverpool possibly purchase to play that sort of football for a whole campaign in all competitions while being competitive enough to be a challenger in all?

[Rick]

Oh absolutely, as much as I have screamed about our shite players, I still voted in the Poll that it's Klopps fault. 

There is no plan B. There is a lack of preparation in training for set pieces (our constant Achilles heel) and worst of all he insists on tactics which leave our midfield very light and exposed a lot of the time. We need a proper enforcer in the middle if we are going to play like that. Wijnaldum and Henderson there is suicide. We could do with a Thiago Motta, a Fernandinho...somebody who just sits in the midfield, ready to stifle oncoming attacks.

[RandoEFC+]

I don't think Klopp is as great as some people think but I also don't think Liverpool have done badly since he took over and I don't think they're a poor team at the moment. If we're here this time next year and there's no new centre back or Moreno is still at left back then you've got an issue.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Did they? I thought our team was shambolic at the end of Rodgers' tenure - and I still think parts are shambolic - but I thought he had a lot of work to do to get us back in the CL. Then Klopp got us back in the CL.

I'm disappointed at the lack of progression this season, but we've still got a long way left. We're still in the hunt for a CL spot, which I think until we address major issues in the squad, is probably the best we can hope for other than a good cup run that will hopefully give us some silverware.

Expecting us to challenge for the title over a course of a season though would be total madness. I think we're right about where it would be reasonable to expect us to be considering how shite we were when Klopp came in. It's disappointing/frustrating though because we still have some of the same glaring issues and the side is capable of playing some truly great stuff... but then continues to fuck itself over with shambolic defending and retarded individual errors.

I agree bud. But there are people already saying he should be sacked. Not me mate but there are people saying that. Alan shearer said the other week you are no different than under rogers. I know he's a numpty but there are a lot of people saying it.

[LFCMadLad]

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Manchester United didn’t need blowing out of the water, Arsenal is better not to enter this debate and Spurs have a lot on their plate.

Klopp bought a keeper and he turned out to be worse than Mignolet (the odds on that must’ve been bloody long) which took some doing. 

Every single manager in the history of football has made poor signings mate. That’s not a valid arquement. 

[SirBalon]

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Every single manager in the history of football has made poor signings mate. That’s not a valid arquement. 

For sure mate, and much worse than the one I mentioned. 

But that signing surely didn’t offer much confidence in Klopp’s decision making where this is concerned from the board’s perspective. Because without a doubt that was Klopp’s signing.

[LFCMike]

3 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Manchester United didn’t need blowing out of the water, Arsenal is better not to enter this debate and Spurs have a lot on their plate.

Klopp bought a keeper and he turned out to be worse than Mignolet (the odds on that must’ve been bloody long) which took some doing. 

A keeper that cost £4m. Generally you get what you pay for. Karius and Mignolet both in similar price brackets so it wasn't that unlikely that he's be just as bad really.

[LFCMadLad]

2 hours ago, FOYM said:

We are in the bottom three for goals conceded away from home! Teams come to anfield with a defensive mentality, when we go away from hom they come at us more. Klopp should have fixed our defensive issues in the two years he has been here, but instead he has barely fucking addressed them. 

We have the best front four in the league after City. We have a bottom 10 defence. That isn't acceptable. Why the fuck do we still have Mignolet?? Why does Moreno still play even thoigh Milner showed him up last season and we bough Robertson?? Why does he insist on Gomez at RB when he is clearly a CB and we have TAA?? Why is Henderson still the captain when he shouldnt even be in the first 11??? 

Sick to death of asking the same questions of Klopp. I admit that we ended up ahead of schedule last season by getting back into the CL, but since the summer we haven't pushed on at all. You can't look at our summer business and say it was acceptable for the money we should have available. Salah was an excellent buy, and I like the look of Robertson and Solanke. But to spend 35m on Ox-Chamberlain and COMPLETELY ignore our CB and GK situations was fucking criminal. We could have gotten DeVrij in thd summer, easily. 

 

You make some valid points (LB and goalkeeper situation) but at the end of the day it’s all opinions and not facts. Gomez playing RB occasionally has already been addressed further up the page and the CB issue has been done to death. Henderson might find games harder to come by next season when Keita and possibly another come in. 

Lets just chill out a bit and let the man do his job. Klopp isn’t a fucking mug, he’s gradually improving the squad in stages and eventually he,ll get shit done. This was never going to be a quick fix with the squad he inherited. 

Klopp has had 1 full season for fuck sake, 1 and already we have fans stamping their feet like petulant children demanding this that and the other. These fans will eventually grind him down and he,ll fuck off and then what? Back to square fucking one that’s where. 

Im personally absolutely delighted we’ve got Klopp (faults and all) and although I think he makes mistakes, I’m certainly not about to start crying calling for his head. Progress has been made and it’s a long term project. Give the bloke a fucking chance. 

[SirBalon]

5 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

A keeper that cost £4m. Generally you get what you pay for. Karius and Mignolet both in similar price brackets so it wasn't that unlikely that he's be just as bad really.

Well if it was a signing to replace Mignolet then no matter what the cost, it's not a very good decision.  Barça bought Ter Stegen for €7m and how much did Courtois cost Chelsea when they signed him and before they sent him on loan to Atlético Madrid?

[LFCMadLad]

18 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Well if it was a signing to replace Mignolet then no matter what the cost, it's not a very good decision.  Barça bought Ter Stegen for €7m and how much did Courtois cost Chelsea when they signed him and before they sent him on loan to Atlético Madrid?

Are we seriously judging a man with Klopp,s pedigree on a cheap signing he took a punt on? Jesus Christ. 

When Klopp arrived he realised almost straight away that Mignolet had absolutely no competition  whatsoever. He also knew Karius was a goalkeeper with potential and was available for peanuts so he took a gamble. 

Its a nothing point you are making  

 

[SirBalon]

29 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Are we seriously judging a man with Klopp,s pedigree on a cheap signing he took a punt on? Jesus Christ. 

When Klopp arrived he realised almost straight away that Mignolet had absolutely no competition  whatsoever. He also knew Karius was a goalkeeper with potential and was available for peanuts so he took a gamble. 

Its a nothing point you are making  

 

£4m for a keeper considering the price other top keepers have gone for isn’t peanuts mate. I know from past comments you’ve made that money spent by Liverpool doesn’t concern you, but not everyone sees things the same way.

[LFCMadLad]

6 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

£4m for a keeper considering the price other top keepers have gone for isn’t peanuts mate. I know from past comments you’ve made that money spent by Liverpool doesn’t concern you, but not everyone sees things the same way.

Klopp will have known that if Karius didn’t work out (and he could still do remember) that he could easily recoup £4m and probably more, especially in today’s market. You mention the price of Ter Stegen and Courtios but that was at a time when fees were much cheaper in general.

It was a cheap punt on a young goalkeeper that was highly regarded in Germany. 

This is a really trivial debate. 

[LFCMike]

6 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

£4m for a keeper considering the price other top keepers have gone for isn’t peanuts mate. I know from past comments you’ve made that money spent by Liverpool doesn’t concern you, but not everyone sees things the same way.

It is peanuts given the state of the market. There will always be exceptions to the rule, of course. But how much did United pay for De Gea about 6 years ago? 15-20m? Liverpool paid 6m for Reina 11 years before they signed Karius. 4m is peanuts

[Danny]

Ederson to City for £30m...

[SirBalon]

1 hour ago, LFCMadLad said:

You mention the price of Ter Stegen and Courtios but that was at a time when fees were much cheaper in general.

 

1 hour ago, LFCMike said:

It is peanuts given the state of the market.

I'll answer you both in the same post...

Hold on!  Karius was signed in the market that was (the market Ter Stegen and Courtois was signed in) and not the market that is!  You can't look at prices paid in errors from when others made successful purchases.

I get where you're going and the relation is only quantified if we consider that Liverpool could conceivably cash in on the "Karius Error"...  But could they?  What ever his caché was before he was signed, it isn't there now and I hope we agree on this.  Leno (looking at German keepers) was young then and of a much more recognised quality to Karius.  How much more would he have cost? £2m maybe £3m?

[LFCMadLad]

18 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

 

I'll answer you both in the same post...

Hold on!  Karius was signed in the market that was (the market Ter Stegen and Courtois was signed in) and not the market that is!  You can't look at prices paid in errors from when others made successful purchases.

I get where you're going and the relation is only quantified if we consider that Liverpool could conceivably cash in on the "Karius Error"...  But could they?  What ever his caché was before he was signed, it isn't there now and I hope we agree on this.  Leno (looking at German keepers) was young then and of a much more recognised quality to Karius.  How much more would he have cost? £2m maybe £3m?

Ya know what, you’re right! 

In fact I can’t believe Klopp is still in a job for totally gambling with £4m on a highly rated German keeper. 

We should have known then that the writing was on the wall. 

[SirBalon]

7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Ya know what, you’re right! 

In fact I can’t believe Klopp is still in a job for totally gambling with £4m on a highly rated German keeper. 

We should have known then that the writing was on the wall. 

Hahaha...  That's irony and sarcasm mate!  But it's not necessary...  You seem to have an issue with what you've accused me of in the past which is to criticise your own or what you're emotionally attached to.

I like you a lot MadLad...  You're one of the most honest guys on the forum since I joined but where this is concerned you are like "mother & child" with Liverpool FC and where I come from, I disconnect from these ideals.  We are paying parties these days, there is no local identity and you are absolutely nobody where Liverpool FC is concerned.

You gave an argument on something I identified, a simple detail amongst many and yet you choose to look at a superficial overall picture which to be honest is very understandable and very few (even I) would be able to argue with.  You are ignoring the details!

[LFCMike]

25 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

 

I'll answer you both in the same post...

Hold on!  Karius was signed in the market that was (the market Ter Stegen and Courtois was signed in) and not the market that is!  You can't look at prices paid in errors from when others made successful purchases.

I get where you're going and the relation is only quantified if we consider that Liverpool could conceivably cash in on the "Karius Error"...  But could they?  What ever his caché was before he was signed, it isn't there now and I hope we agree on this.  Leno (looking at German keepers) was young then and of a much more recognised quality to Karius.  How much more would he have cost? £2m maybe £3m?

So you decided to ignore the rest of my post explaining why... 

[SirBalon]

Just now, LFCMike said:

So you decided to ignore the rest of my post explaining why... 

I didn't mate, I used part of your post to emphasise where us fans are idiots.  I used part of it to also hit out at the argument of present prices when Karius wasn't bought in the "present price" moment.

It's upto you guys as Liverpool fans to question and demand something from those that administer your football club on all levels.  Obviously your football club doesn't belong to the fans anymore like every single English football club and that means that our words mean very little.  But a forum IS A PORTAL for dissent if you need it and your voice as a football fan.

[LFCMadLad]

57 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Hahaha...  That's irony and sarcasm mate!  But it's not necessary...  You seem to have an issue with what you've accused me of in the past which is to criticise your own or what you're emotionally attached to.

I like you a lot MadLad...  You're one of the most honest guys on the forum since I joined but where this is concerned you are like "mother & child" with Liverpool FC and where I come from, I disconnect from these ideals.  We are paying parties these days, there is no local identity and you are absolutely nobody where Liverpool FC is concerned.

You gave an argument on something I identified, a simple detail amongst many and yet you choose to look at a superficial overall picture which to be honest is very understandable and very few (even I) would be able to argue with.  You are ignoring the details!

I just think you are making a mountain out of a molehill where the signing of Karius is concerned mate. 

If you were talking about a £20+m signing I’d wholeheartedly agree but we are talking about £4m on a very young keeper that was voted 2nd best keeper in Germany season prior to us signing him. At the time of this signing Mignolet had absolutely zero competition whatsoever which Klopp immediately identified so he took an educated punt on providing some depth. 

Clubs pay more than £4m all the time for second fiddle goalkeepers so in a sense it’s still not a bad signing at all in the grand scheme of things, even if it hasn’t solved our first choice issues.

My whole argument on this matter though is that it’s a trivial debate when discussing Klopp’s tenure because as I’ve said before, it’s a long term project (6 years he’s just signed) and the squad will be built and improved on gradually during that time. We aren’t Man City or United who can keep throwing £30-£40-£50m on players until we get it right. We have to be sure big money is well spent on players that will improve us. In a sense I can see why Klopp is waiting for VVD for instance instead of looking at inferior second choices. He wants his man and is prepared to wait . Same with Keita! He couldn’t get him this summer but we’ve paid the money and are willing to wait till next summer before he comes in. 

People just need to have patience. He’s had 1 full season!