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Are Liverpool Under Klopp Like Spurs Under Hoddle?

Do you blame Klopp, the players or the board?   

8 members have voted

  1. 1. Who’s ultimately responsible?

    • Klopp
      6
    • The players
      2
    • The board
      0


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So, as a Neutral I have to ask the question, who is letting who down at Liverpool? Is the problem recruitment or is the problem That when it matters in big games Klopp cannot organize a defense? Don’t get me wrong. When players step on the pitch, he’s limited in what he can do but as soon as the pressure is on, you know Liverpool are going to bottle it. 

Most will remember the Alex Ferguson quote “it’s Tottenham lads” meaning; for all the skill and ability, it won’t amount to much and they can be got at. 

Consider the recruitment or lack of real alternatives when van Dijks deal didn’t materialize. Even the way Liverpool conduct business. To not strengthen defensively is idiocy, who couldn’t see that there?

Recruitment aside and Klopps tactics or the players lack of capability, there must be surely something that Can be done away from home? To concede so many goals on the road at this point of the season is being masked by a superb home record. 

Appreciate Ferguson didn’t make the comment when Hoddle was at Spurs, but I recall Tottenham being so flaky under Glenn. Sublime to ridiculous in the same game.

 

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Whoever decided not to look at alternatives to Van Dijk, not to strengthen our defence, to keep our GK situation as it is....well they are quite frankly a fucking idiot and I hate them for it. 

Klopp is responsible for awful game management, persisting with complete shite like Moreno over Robertson (who has looked good when he's had a chance) and overall lack of a plan B. He insists he is happy with our defence...well he's either stupid as fuck, or he is a liar. Either way it's not what I want to see. 

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Klopp's at fault, imo. Our problems are systemic and are being ignored. The system we have leaves us exposed because we always want to attack. We need more balance and I can't help but think a proper defensive midfielder would go a long way to helping us at the back. When we're under lots of attacking pressure, we've generally got Firmino as our first line of defense, then a midfield that leaves things incredibly open, and a defense that is poorly organised and often left exposed by the players in front of them.

The players are at fault to an extent. Henderson is supposed to be our leader, he's the captain FFS. But as I said in the match thread, beyond Milner we don't have any players with leadership qualities in the squad.

The board have given us substantial financial backing. With the resources we had available, the fact we couldn't sign VvD did not mean we'd have to thumb our nose at other candidates. We clearly need to bring people in - and the people in charge of our recruitment (Klopp is one of them) made a huge mistake in failing to address our totally shite defense. Which has been a problem since before Klopp's come in.

We look more defensively inept than we have at any point in my lifetime since Roy Evans, another period where we were good in attack and pretty shite defensively. But we're worse defensively nowadays.

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Didn't see tonight's game but heard what happened. For me, the only difference between Liverpool under Klopp and Liverpool under Rodgers is that Liverpool almost won a title with Rodgers (due to Suarez though not the manager).

Thing is Klopp has got Liverpool into the Champions League again, through the group stage, and has a good chance of top four again this year. Apart from getting a domestic cup in the cabinet again I don't see what else people expect. From the outside it looks like because Liverpool put themselves in good positions like tonight then somehow lose it seems worse than it is. Is a draw in Sevilla to secure group qualification with a game to spare that bad? Not really.

The recruitment thing is a whole other issue and we have the same problem at Everton with all these different people involved - heads of recruitment, scouts, director of football, manager - that it's incredibly difficult to pin the blame on one or some individuals.

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It's a combination of all three, blame can't be pinned on just one party. Obviously when it goes tits up it will be the manager who pays with his job like they do anywhere else in football

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6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Didn't see tonight's game but heard what happened. For me, the only difference between Liverpool under Klopp and Liverpool under Rodgers is that Liverpool almost won a title with Rodgers (due to Suarez though not the manager).

Thing is Klopp has got Liverpool into the Champions League again, through the group stage, and has a good chance of top four again this year. Apart from getting a domestic cup in the cabinet again I don't see what else people expect. From the outside it looks like because Liverpool put themselves in good positions like tonight then somehow lose it seems worse than it is. Is a draw in Sevilla to secure group qualification with a game to spare that bad? Not really.

The recruitment thing is a whole other issue and we have the same problem at Everton with all these different people involved - heads of recruitment, scouts, director of football, manager - that it's incredibly difficult to pin the blame on one or some individuals.

I think there's a bit of a difference in Rodgers' Liverpool vs. Klopp's. Rodgers found success by using Gerrard as a deep lying playmaker and having shitloads of movement up top with Suarez and Sturridge. And it certainly helped that Suarez was a magician.

Tactically he was lost once we lost Suarez - once Suarez was gone, the movement in that Liverpool side was gone. Then he wasted Gerrard's last season with us in a deep lying role with a side that had no movement up top, especially with Sturridge constantly injured. That season was a fucking shambles.

As far as tactics go and building a side, Klopp's done a far better job. Mane, Salah, Firminho, Coutinho, and our arguably most important player from last season (I'd say he's was up there with Mane and Coutinho last season) Lallana have all come on leaps and bounds since Klopp's taken over.

But Klopp's management style has been riddled with shitloads of awful defensive performances - and it stems from the system we use and the players we've brought in (or haven't brought in) to plug the obvious holes. There's also strange decisions like never, ever, absolutely never having a Plan B. Or refusing to make changes to the side until far too late and after damage has already been done (Rodgers was big on that too tbh).

I think there's similarities between Rodgers and Klopp, but I also think that Klopp's by far the better manager between the two. But yes, a draw in Sevilla is a poor result where in one half you're flying and the other team is reeling... and then you completely fold and let them back into it. It's not just this one match either. It's a clear failure that the club has failed to address since before this manager was brought in. I think you're right on the expectations for Klopp, but there's also the problem of demonstrating that the club is making forward progress. Last season he could point towards the club making forward progress. This season... not so much.

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Becoming a joke now how we throw away good leads. The players failed because they didn't recognize the situation and adapt to it effectively, the manager failed because he refused to replace a player who was clearly having a bad game and lastly the board for neglecting what the manager 'thinks' is the right way forward and getting players to shore up the defensive side of our game. We'll see this team score so many more goals but even if they put in five goals no one can guarantee they won't let in the same amount to lose/draw games. I like Klopp and what hes trying to do but even he must realize now that playing the way we do when we're under pressure is clearly going to end badly.

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I don't think you can look past Liverpool's defence and not put blame on someone, whether it's Klopp or the committee.

I feel like Klopp is aiming at really achieving something next season, with Keita to come and then I imagine a centre back at some point too. Obviously Coutinho will be off in the Summer, but I think Klopps building something that'll probably be ready to compete for a title next season.

If he's not able to then I reckon he'll have the sack

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Looking in from outside I myself can't opt for one of the options to vote.  Only the Liverpool fans that follow their club inside out and day to day have more of an inkling as to what's gong on.

But from the outside to me it looks more a situation revolving around Klopp's deficiencies as a coach.  All this energy sapping, high pressing game is great for the neutral to watch while it lasts, but tactically it's not very good.  You don't really have to go too deep into an analysis here because certain things keep on repeating themselves in terms of how the story of a game goes and then you have the topsy-turvy seasons Liverpool continuously have under Klopp.

For me it's not a case if this Liverpool side coached by Klopp us like the Tottenham Hotspur side coached by Hoddle... If you want a comparison in those terms, then this Liverpool side for me is more like Ossie Ardiles' Spurs.

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It's interesting actually. He was regarded as one of the best coaches in the world when he came in but it hasn't happened yet.

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They actually remind me a lot of Arsenal in the late 00s early 10s. Incredible attack which could blow anyone away, but always had that vulnerability at the back. The faith in Mignolet is near as baffling as our faith in Almunia. I think having a strong goalkeeper can cover up a lot of problems with a defence, Man City's has improved so much with the addition of Ederson.

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10 minutes ago, Chaaay AFC said:

They actually remind me a lot of Arsenal in the late 00s early 10s. Incredible attack which could blow anyone away, but always had that vulnerability at the back. The faith in Mignolet is near as baffling as our faith in Almunia. I think having a strong goalkeeper can cover up a lot of problems with a defence, Man City's has improved so much with the addition of Ederson.

Ha ha yeah the 4 alls with Newcastle and Spurs ring a bell. I was at that spurs game. The fans were in shock

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Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

Ha ha yeah the 4 alls with Newcastle and Spurs ring a bell. 

xD Fucking hell, some tragic games back then. 

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5 minutes ago, Chaaay AFC said:

xD Fucking hell, some tragic games back then. 

Wigan as well 3 goals in 10 minutes. 2.0 up against spurs lost 3.2. Anderlect as well ha ha

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Having a strong,  confident keeper and a leader in defence would solve quite a few of our problems.

When the going gets tough,  they all look like scared children. 

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Well United back then laughed at Spurs, and United shite themselves whenever they play Klopp’s Liverpool, so that’s one difference at least.

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We have the best defensive record in the league at home so things aren’t that bad. A couple of additions and some tactical tweaks when playing away should see us right. 

Ive criticised Klopp plenty but people need to calm down. He’s only just started a 6 year project and when the defensive side of our game comes together then get ready :D

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The recruitment is a massive part of the problem, their defence was shit last season and they went the whole summer without improving it really. They seemed to pin all their hopes on VVD and as soon as that fell through they didn't try for anyone else.

Klopp isn't as good as people like to think either which doesn't help.

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Just now, Toony said:

The recruitment is a massive part of the problem, their defence was shit last season and they went the whole summer without improving it really. They seemed to pin all their hopes on VVD and as soon as that fell through they didn't try for anyone else.

Klopp isn't as good as people like to think either which doesn't help.

His record as a manger is pretty damn good. Do you have anything to back up your claim that he isn’t that good? 

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2 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

His record as a manger is pretty damn good. Do you have anything to back up your claim that he isn’t that good? 

I never said he isn't that good, I said he's not as good as people think. I wouldn't have him in the same breathe as Mourinho or Guardiola.

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All of the above to blame but mostly the manager. He must know Moreno is crap yet still persists with him this season despite him having a better left back available. Gomez on the right is weird as well. Been enough talk about the VVD thing and not getting a centre half. 

Needs to stop overtraining his players as well. They won't break down as often. 

 

 

 

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I love Klopp but he's perhaps too loyal to players. I don't know why he keeps trusting certain players to do a job they have shown an exhaustive amount of times they aren't able to do. Ultimately he's to blame.

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12 minutes ago, Toony said:

I never said he isn't that good, I said he's not as good as people think. I wouldn't have him in the same breathe as Mourinho or Guardiola.

He’s never had half the money those two have had to spend though so it’s a pretty unfair comparison. 

I’d take him everyday over Mourinho to be honest. Every time they come up against each other Mourinho absolutely shits the bed. 

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12 minutes ago, HK85 said:

All of the above to blame but mostly the manager. He must know Moreno is crap yet still persists with him this season despite him having a better left back available. Gomez on the right is weird as well. Been enough talk about the VVD thing and not getting a centre half. 

Needs to stop overtraining his players as well. They won't break down as often. 

 

 

 

Clyne is injured (has been all season) so Klopp has rotated Gomez and TAA at RB. Not sure what’s weird about that? 

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4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Clyne is injured (has been all season) so Klopp has rotated Gomez and TAA at RB. Not sure what’s weird about that? 

Needs to play TAA consistently until Clyne is back. 

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6 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

The difference is that Mourinho delivers trophies and klopp disappointments
 

Its that simple. Mourinho>>>Pep>>> Rafa>>>Rodgers>>>>Klopp

My nephew would deliver trophies with the money Mourinho spends. He also wouldn’t shat himself against the big teams. 

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6 minutes ago, HK85 said:

Needs to play TAA consistently until Clyne is back. 

Horses for courses. TAA is better against teams that sit back because he’s good going forward. Gomez is better against more attacking teams because he’s a natural defender. 

Klopp has said though that this is a long term project and he’s learning Gomez the ropes across the back four before eventually easing him into the CB position. Too early yet though. 

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14 minutes ago, HK85 said:

Needs to play TAA consistently until Clyne is back. 

I'd rather have Gomez at RB over TAA personally because TAA isn't as reliable as Gomez but that depends on the teams played against. I didn't think he did a shoddy job yesterday.

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Not Clyne's biggest fan at right back but it's not ideal having two kids fighting it out for that position while he's injured. Don't think either are natural RBs either. TAA came through the ranks mainly playing in midfield I believe?

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