Metal and Rock

[Panflute]

Yeah, he finished treatment last month I think, but I'll still have to wait and see whether this gig will go through. Apparently Mustaine was not yet present for that Megadeth cruise they did a few weeks ago.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 17/11/2019 at 04:47, Panflute said:

Yeah, he finished treatment last month I think, but I'll still have to wait and see whether this gig will go through. Apparently Mustaine was not yet present for that Megadeth cruise they did a few weeks ago.

Yeah he finished about 3 weeks ago and missed the first Megacruise (apparently he talked to some fans with Skype though), but yeah - they’ve got tour dates (like the one you’re going to) for 2020. Hope I get to see them again soon.

Did you hear about how he put a bunch of guitars and guitar gear up for sale on Reverb, and one guy bought every single one of the guitars (arsehole).

[Panflute]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah he finished about 3 weeks ago and missed the first Megacruise (apparently he talked to some fans with Skype though), but yeah - they’ve got tour dates (like the one you’re going to) for 2020. Hope I get to see them again soon.

Did you hear about how he put a bunch of guitars and guitar gear up for sale on Reverb, and one guy bought every single one of the guitars (arsehole).

Yeah I vaguely heard something about that. Whatever I guess, those instruments don't interest me without the guy who plays them.

And yeah, he let his daughter Electra carry a phone to random people in the Megacruise audience to Facetime with them. The guy has a reputation for being a hardass but I feel like he's always been genuinely appreciative of his fans.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Panflute said:

Yeah I vaguely heard something about that. Whatever I guess, those instruments don't interest me without the guy who plays them.

And yeah, he let his daughter Electra carry a phone to random people in the Megacruise audience to Facetime with them. The guy has a reputation for being a hardass but I feel like he's always been genuinely appreciative of his fans.

I think it's a bit cool to have a guitar that Dave played. Having all the ones he sold though just as a publicity stunt for his record studio is a bit irritating though. Not sure why I care though, not like I was going to buy one  - I love guitars, but I'm not about to pay 3x the price of an already really expensive instrument.

I met him when he was doing a book signing, because I wanted an autograph and to shake Dave Mustaine's hand & you're right, he does seem genuinely appreciative of his fans. I think the people that think he's a total cock are people who've had to work with him, tbh - and he does sound like a difficult person to work with (particularly in the early days as his speed and heroin addiction were out of control). He was supposed to be an absolute twat to tour with (Kerry King's been pretty vocal about that in the past) and because Megadeth is really his project... he's a control freak in the recording studio. Which I'm not too surprised by, he's a fucking genius at writing metal songs - after a successful career of it, I'd expect him to be a control freak.

[Panflute]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it's a bit cool to have a guitar that Dave played. Having all the ones he sold though just as a publicity stunt for his record studio is a bit irritating though. Not sure why I care though, not like I was going to buy one  - I love guitars, but I'm not about to pay 3x the price of an already really expensive instrument.

I met him when he was doing a book signing, because I wanted an autograph and to shake Dave Mustaine's hand & you're right, he does seem genuinely appreciative of his fans. I think the people that think he's a total cock are people who've had to work with him, tbh - and he does sound like a difficult person to work with (particularly in the early days as his speed and heroin addiction were out of control). He was supposed to be an absolute twat to tour with (Kerry King's been pretty vocal about that in the past) and because Megadeth is really his project... he's a control freak in the recording studio. Which I'm not too surprised by, he's a fucking genius at writing metal songs - after a successful career of it, I'd expect him to be a control freak.

I think this is a very common trait in successful artists, especially one with as troubled a background as Mustaine: alcoholic and drug addict, strict religious upbringing and kicked out of what was about to become the world's biggest metal band.

What always seems interesting about Mustaine though, is that although many of his bandmates left with arguments, the amount of public beefing between them seems quite limited in comparison to his early grudges with Lars Ulrich and Kerry King (who both have huge egos themselves).

In that regard, this interview with Chris Poland reveals some very interesting things of how Nick Menza viewed Mustaine before his death: frustrated with some of the money stuff, but still having a huge amount of respect for him in the end.

https://machinemusic.net/2017/04/18/jazz-death-and-megadeth-a-conversation-with-chris-poland/

"Thing is, he was the nicest person. He made me want to be a better man. He would stop me mid sentence if I even started to talk shit about Dave."

“You know what? Dave Mustaine made me a millionaire. Dave Mustaine let me see the whole world. I was a rock star. What more can I ask for?”

I think that's what makes Megadeth interesting as well. That the dysfunction is out in the open and often relateable, yet rarely got in the way of good art.

But yeah, back to the original point, lately I read that James Hetfield referred to detractors of Lulu (so most of his fanbase really) as fearful people who probably still lived in their mothers' basements. I just don't see Mustaine take a wholesale shit on his fans like that.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

I think this is a very common trait in successful artists, especially one with as troubled a background as Mustaine: alcoholic and drug addict, strict religious upbringing and kicked out of what was about to become the world's biggest metal band.

What always seems interesting about Mustaine though, is that although many of his bandmates left with arguments, the amount of public beefing between them seems quite limited in comparison to his early grudges with Lars Ulrich and Kerry King (who both have huge egos themselves).

In that regard, this interview with Chris Poland reveals some very interesting things of how Nick Menza viewed Mustaine before his death: frustrated with some of the money stuff, but still having a huge amount of respect for him in the end.

https://machinemusic.net/2017/04/18/jazz-death-and-megadeth-a-conversation-with-chris-poland/

"Thing is, he was the nicest person. He made me want to be a better man. He would stop me mid sentence if I even started to talk shit about Dave."

“You know what? Dave Mustaine made me a millionaire. Dave Mustaine let me see the whole world. I was a rock star. What more can I ask for?”

I think that's what makes Megadeth interesting as well. That the dysfunction is out in the open and often relateable, yet rarely got in the way of good art.

But yeah, back to the original point, lately I read that James Hetfield referred to detractors of Lulu (so most of his fanbase really) as fearful people who probably still lived in their mothers' basements. I just don't see Mustaine take a wholesale shit on his fans like that.

Some of his ex-lead guitarists have felt the need to talk shite about Dave. Jeff Young, from So Far, So Good... So What... has never really gotten over getting sacked from the band, because every time I see his name pop up (usually on the Ultimate-Guitar news) it's always him bitching about how Mustaine is an evil, manipulative junkie. Even in interviews that were over a decade passed when he got sacked. Chris Broderick has talked some shite about him as well, but less about Mustaine personally... more about the rules he set for the band (like wearing white collared shirts live).

But yeah, I don't see Mustaine taking shits on his fans like the Hetfield comment on Lulu. Take for example, that album Supercollider - which was universally panned by most Megadeth fans. In interviews for the next album, he was basically like "well, I know the fans didn't really like Supercollider - but I think more of our fans will like the new album" (that's a paraphrase, don't remember much of the exact quote)… you can even see if when he talks about Marty Friedman and the song he thinks made Marty want to quit the band (Breadline) and he knows the album that's on is one that fans feel is pretty shite. But he doesn't feel the need to attack the fans over the lack of public reception.

I think it's insane that James Hetfield would say that about people who disliked Lulu. Did anyone in the world outside of Metallica and Lou Reed enjoy Lulu? It's just an awful album 

[Panflute]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Some of his ex-lead guitarists have felt the need to talk shite about Dave. Jeff Young, from So Far, So Good... So What... has never really gotten over getting sacked from the band, because every time I see his name pop up (usually on the Ultimate-Guitar news) it's always him bitching about how Mustaine is an evil, manipulative junkie. Even in interviews that were over a decade passed when he got sacked. Chris Broderick has talked some shite about him as well, but less about Mustaine personally... more about the rules he set for the band (like wearing white collared shirts live).

But yeah, I don't see Mustaine taking shits on his fans like the Hetfield comment on Lulu. Take for example, that album Supercollider - which was universally panned by most Megadeth fans. In interviews for the next album, he was basically like "well, I know the fans didn't really like Supercollider - but I think more of our fans will like the new album" (that's a paraphrase, don't remember much of the exact quote)… you can even see if when he talks about Marty Friedman and the song he thinks made Marty want to quit the band (Breadline) and he knows the album that's on is one that fans feel is pretty shite. But he doesn't feel the need to attack the fans over the lack of public reception.

I think it's insane that James Hetfield would say that about people who disliked Lulu. Did anyone in the world outside of Metallica and Lou Reed enjoy Lulu? It's just an awful album 

Jeff Young seems to be the glaring exception, and I think it's because he was a fairly sobre guy who got fired from the band purely because of Mustaine's speed-induced paranoia. People like Poland and Samuelson were hardcore heroin junkies themselves at the time so their sacking was a lot less controversial. And when the likes of Poland and Menza did beef, it was mostly over royalties. Mustaine admitted he fucked up with Jeff Young and even invited him to an eventual Hard Rock Hall of Fame induction.

The circumstances of Friedman's departure are still quite vague to me. From what I understand, Mustaine wanted to go back to doing more thrashy records in the wake of Risk (because the fans wanted it), and Friedman subsequently quit because he wanted Megadeth to continue into the mainstream/alternative rock direction. I take this with a grain of salt because part of it seems like Mustaine trying to 'pin' Risk on Friedman, while Dave himself has writing credits on literally every song.

What I do like about Mustaine is that he acknowledges the criticism of some of his records without denouncing them. Even of Risk he says he thought it was a good record, but just with the wrong name on the cover. It's always a pet peeve of mine when artists dismiss their own work as it sort of makes me feel stupid if I do like it.

Then there's records like Lulu, of course, which is an obvious artistic failure. I've never met anyone who actually likes the record, but there's people online who'll defend it. You can kind of see by the way they phrase things that they convinced themselves to like the record to satisfy some contrarian impulse "I hated it at first, but the more I listened to it..." etc. I have a broad musical taste but I legitimately cannot understand how someone can look at that and go 'yeah, that's a job well done'. It's a total lack of self-reflection put to wax; an undertaking that rivals Some Kind Of Monster in how grotesque it is.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

Jeff Young seems to be the glaring exception, and I think it's because he was a fairly sobre guy who got fired from the band purely because of Mustaine's speed-induced paranoia. People like Poland and Samuelson were hardcore heroin junkies themselves at the time so their sacking was a lot less controversial. And when the likes of Poland and Menza did beef, it was mostly over royalties. Mustaine admitted he fucked up with Jeff Young and even invited him to an eventual Hard Rock Hall of Fame induction.

The circumstances of Friedman's departure are still quite vague to me. From what I understand, Mustaine wanted to go back to doing more thrashy records in the wake of Risk (because the fans wanted it), and Friedman subsequently quit because he wanted Megadeth to continue into the mainstream/alternative rock direction. I take this with a grain of salt because part of it seems like Mustaine trying to 'pin' Risk on Friedman, while Dave himself has writing credits on literally every song.

What I do like about Mustaine is that he acknowledges the criticism of some of his records without denouncing them. Even of Risk he says he thought it was a good record, but just with the wrong name on the cover. It's always a pet peeve of mine when artists dismiss their own work as it sort of makes me feel stupid if I do like it.

Then there's records like Lulu, of course, which is an obvious artistic failure. I've never met anyone who actually likes the record, but there's people online who'll defend it. You can kind of see by the way they phrase things that they convinced themselves to like the record to satisfy some contrarian impulse "I hated it at first, but the more I listened to it..." etc. I have a broad musical taste but I legitimately cannot understand how someone can look at that and go 'yeah, that's a job well done'. It's a total lack of self-reflection put to wax; an undertaking that rivals Some Kind Of Monster in how grotesque it is.

I think that was his story at the time, because Risk came out and it didn't get a good reception from the fans. I think subsequently, he's said that Risk and the specifically the song Breadline are why Marty quit - apparently Marty hated that song but wrote a solo for it he was pretty proud of... and the producer/record company cut the solo and put the album out without it on it and Marty was livid. Here's one source, but I've heard him talk about it on his Gimme Radio show before he played the song on the show as well: https://metalheadzone.com/dave-mustaine-reveals-the-sad-moment-about-marty-friedman/

 Do you like any of the Megadeth albums after they reformed in the 2000s? I think the first 2 albums of the "new" Megadeth are the best 2 since Dave brought the band back from the dead.

[Panflute]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think that was his story at the time, because Risk came out and it didn't get a good reception from the fans. I think subsequently, he's said that Risk and the specifically the song Breadline are why Marty quit - apparently Marty hated that song but wrote a solo for it he was pretty proud of... and the producer/record company cut the solo and put the album out without it on it and Marty was livid. Here's one source, but I've heard him talk about it on his Gimme Radio show before he played the song on the show as well: https://metalheadzone.com/dave-mustaine-reveals-the-sad-moment-about-marty-friedman/

 Do you like any of the Megadeth albums after they reformed in the 2000s? I think the first 2 albums of the "new" Megadeth are the best 2 since Dave brought the band back from the dead.

The Marty story, if true, sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back. It was always obvious that Mustaine and Friedman were quite far apart creatively, but as Friedman confirmed much later in an interview with Loudwire, it was also this dynamic that allowed them to make some of the best and certainly most commercially successful albums in the band's career. I think they were never destined to last forever, and it's for the best as both Mustaine and Friedman went on to make the music they love.

And I've recently been catching up with their activities. I was a pretty big fan of theirs in the mid 2000s. Their first album I got was The World Needs A Hero as it was the most recent one at the time; it's pre-hiatus or break-up, but this album still has a lot of sentimental value for me and I rate it much higher than most fans would. I drifted away into other subgenres after The System Has Failed (that I remember next to nothing of). 

Lately I've been listening to Endgame and Dystopia, and I particularly like the latter. The production is a bit more sterile than their early stuff, but it's a record I can easily play back to back without getting bored. Particularly Kiko Loureiro leaves a very good impression; he seems to bring the passion back into the lead guitar position, and the songs he has writing credits on are some of the highlights. Endgame I've only listened twice, but the pacing seems a bit rougher than on Dystopia. The rest I'll still have to listen to, but I'm sort of dreading Supercollider as people have called it their worst album.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Panflute said:

The Marty story, if true, sounds like the straw that broke the camel's back. It was always obvious that Mustaine and Friedman were quite far apart creatively, but as Friedman confirmed much later in an interview with Loudwire, it was also this dynamic that allowed them to make some of the best and certainly most commercially successful albums in the band's career. I think they were never destined to last forever, and it's for the best as both Mustaine and Friedman went on to make the music they love.

And I've recently been catching up with their activities. I was a pretty big fan of theirs in the mid 2000s. Their first album I got was The World Needs A Hero as it was the most recent one at the time; it's pre-hiatus or break-up, but this album still has a lot of sentimental value for me and I rate it much higher than most fans would. I drifted away into other subgenres after The System Has Failed (that I remember next to nothing of). 

Lately I've been listening to Endgame and Dystopia, and I particularly like the latter. The production is a bit more sterile than their early stuff, but it's a record I can easily play back to back without getting bored. Particularly Kiko Loureiro leaves a very good impression; he seems to bring the passion back into the lead guitar position, and the songs he has writing credits on are some of the highlights. Endgame I've only listened twice, but the pacing seems a bit rougher than on Dystopia. The rest I'll still have to listen to, but I'm sort of dreading Supercollider as people have called it their worst album.

Supercollider was so bad I was worried Dystopia would also be crap. So I was pleasantly surprised by Dystopia.

Kiko Loureiro is a great addition to the band

[Machado]

The kid is like "fuck your shit, I wanna play Metallica".

[Panflute]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Supercollider was so bad I was worried Dystopia would also be crap. So I was pleasantly surprised by Dystopia.

Kiko Loureiro is a great addition to the band

Much better than Chris Broderick. He's a great guitarist but never seemed to fit in, playing like a robot.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Panflute said:

Much better than Chris Broderick. He's a great guitarist but never seemed to fit in, playing like a robot.

100% agree, Chris Broderick’s obviously a great guitarist but his solos are never really emotive at all.

Anyways here’s a quality tune since we’ve been talking about Megadeth for so long

 

[Panflute]

Great song that isn't as highly rated as I think it should be. My absolute favorite from that album is Addicted To Chaos, though.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Great song that isn't as highly rated as I think it should be. My absolute favorite from that album is Addicted To Chaos, though.

Mine too!

[Toinho]

Iron Maiden are coming in May! I have tickets with the old man. It’ll be the 4th time seeing these legends!

[True Blue]

Don't particularly listen to Meshuggah, but this is a beast of a track

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, True Blue said:

Don't particularly listen to Meshuggah, but this is a beast of a track

 

I feel like every djent-y sort of band has their own version of a song that sounds... pretty much just like this one.

[Dr. Gonzo]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yi56vt29e7My_mkTQ0r8Er2S3at198J6h_MOF4t64ys/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1653947043

The above is a spreadsheet of "every metal album" (I doubt it though, there's probably shitloads that weren't on this guys radar) from 2019. It's also got this guy's own personal rankings as to how he views the records. Cool list though, I'm going to be listening to a lot of it.

[Panflute]

I placed a Christmas order with the 4 remaining Megadeth albums I did not yet own. I must say that collecting the physical discography of a band in that short a period has been fun. Though with this collection soon complete, I can only think of Iron Maiden as a band I'd be interested in having the entire discography off... but apparently most stores now stock the overpriced remasters.

I also might want to add a few more things to my Metallica collection, namely Master of Puppets (which I somehow never owned), And Justice For All, and the Black Album. I already like MoP and AJFA a whole lot less than the first 2 albums, and I'm only interested in the Black Album due to it being one of the most perfectly produced albums of all time, but it'll be nice to have in my collection what I consider to be the decent-to-good Metallica before they went on to produce shit.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Blast from the past

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

 

 

[Panflute]

Recently I've come to realize that Judas Priest is a band I've slept on big time. The only album by them I've heard in its majority is Sad Wings of Destiny, and I know a handful of their biggest hits such as Breaking the Law. What are, say, 4-5 of their most essential albums?

[Dr. Gonzo]

55 minutes ago, Panflute said:

Recently I've come to realize that Judas Priest is a band I've slept on big time. The only album by them I've heard in its majority is Sad Wings of Destiny, and I know a handful of their biggest hits such as Breaking the Law. What are, say, 4-5 of their most essential albums?

Judas Priest are fucking excellent.

So like many bands, they've got a "golden era" - I'd say that 3 albums that fall into that category would be: Defenders of the Faith (my personal favourite of theirs), Screaming for Vengeance (pretty close up there), and I think the obvious mention in that golden era (although it's my least favourite of the 3 I'm listing) would be the British Steel album. It's probably more pop-y than their other albums, but it's got some quality tunes on it and it's iconic and their best selling album for a reason - it's a strong album with catchy songs.

Aside from that "golden era" - I'd also say Killing Machine, the album before British Steel, is definitely worth a listen - I personally like it a bit better than British Steel.

Other than that, you've absolutely got to give the Painkiller album a listen. I'm sure you've heard the title track... but that album is a fucking classic. Actually, I take what I said about Defenders of the Faith... Painkiller is 100% my favourite Priest album.

They've got a few weak albums - I hate Turbo & the Nostradamus album. But other than that, their discography is remarkably solid. And some people really love Turbo. But even their latest release, Firepower is a very strong album.

I am so lucky that I've seen Judas Priest & Iron Maiden 3 times each (and for the first time ever, I saw both bands in the same year... like it's the fucking 80s). So if you like NWOBH bands... you definitely need to check out Priest, they're legends for a reason - I'm sure @tlr would agree!

[tlr]

6 hours ago, Panflute said:

Recently I've come to realize that Judas Priest is a band I've slept on big time. The only album by them I've heard in its majority is Sad Wings of Destiny, and I know a handful of their biggest hits such as Breaking the Law. What are, say, 4-5 of their most essential albums?

As @Dr. Gonzo alluded to, I am quite fond of Priest. Most the advice he gave is sound and will second most of it, but I'll add my own anyway. Also included a couple of songs at the end of each suggestion if you just want a taster, enjoy those and you'll enjoy the album at large.

Defenders of the Faith (the first six songs especially) and Screaming for Vengeance are absolute necessities. DOTF is probably the 'heavier' of the two, but both are 80s mainstream metal of the highest order. Have a gander at Devil's Child and the superb Sentinel for a taster.

There are also a couple of darker, more experimental gems in the earlier Priest catalogue worth a go too - Sin After Sin and Stained Class. The themes with there are the more 'traditional' sombre and serious topics that Priest largely abandoned for their more popular era. Songs like Dissident Aggressor and Savage will give you a good feel.

Another decent duo is Painkiller and Jugulator. The former is just a straight up masterpiece, not a note out of place and an absolute onslaught from first second to last. I won't even recommend a taster for this one, play the entire thing through and then pick your jaw off the floor. Jugulator was panned by everybody because Rob Halford wasn't on it. In reality these people are arseholes who should be extradited to the fucking moon. Like Painkiller this is a departure from the classic Priest sound and if anything goes more towards extreme metal genres than Painkiller did. It does suffer from the fact that the lyrics are a bit shit in places (no Rob Halford in this era!) but listen to Cathedral Spires and tell me it isn't a classic. Criminally underrated.

The best of the rest? Sad Wings of Destiny is decent, early sounds a la Sin After Sin. Killing Machine is enjoyable proto-80s Priest. British Steel has a blinding first three songs. Point of Entry is poppier than most but infectious. Ram It Down is a decent bridge from DOTF to Painkiller. Angel of Retribution is fair. Nostradamus is a massive OK. Redeemer of Souls is decent. Firepower is a beauty.

Don't bother - Rocka Rolla, Turbo, Demolition.

I think that's it!