Wednesday 25th April - Bayern Munich 1-2 Real Madrid (SF 1st Leg)

[UNORTHODOX]

We will beat Real, I just think winning the tournament 3 years in a row is too good to be true. I know that's shit logic.

[Guest]

"Brian is nuts"

 

[SirBalon]

13 minutes ago, El_Loco said:

Is the term "copero" also used in Spain? I find interesting the difference in perception. I´ve seen many european journalists describing this Zidane side as a cup team, but not necessarily in a positive light. Here, on other hand, saying a club is "copeiro" is one of biggest compliments you can give to a club. 

Indeed mate, in Spain a cup team is called "Copero" but in normal terms it isn't necessarily a negative association.  It all depends what else is being placed into the debate.  For example Athletic Club Bilbao is also known as being historically "Copero" although they've not done much in effect since the 80s. Sevilla are a modern day "Copero" club for obvious reasons and from there we can determine if recognising a club of the stature of Real Madrid is a positive or negative thing to call or associate them almost solely with that term in contemporary times.

If you were to say to a Real Madrid fan that their club is "Copero" he wouldn't like it much because it almost relegates the significance of winning the Champions League/European Cup seeing as regularity and a sign of a genuine huge club is also being victorious in said term of regularity which is obviously being champions of your country.  You don't get that accolade with winning just the FA Cup in England or the Copa del Rey in Spain.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

"Brian is nuts"

 

Suarez would probably have a better reputation if he didn't bite people multiple times in his career.

[Panflute]

3 hours ago, Blue said:

Many will disagree with me, but the agenda filled fans will blame Keylor Navas for not being good enough because he is Costa Rican.

I know it sounds nuts, but discrimination exists in the game. Imagine saying 30 years ago a Costa Rican will play for Real Madrid. It sounds surreal, but that doesn't mean its a bad thing if he can actually play.

Do you have a button on your keyboard that automatically generates the dumbest thing possible whenever you press it?

[Guest]

Just now, Panflute said:

Do you have a button on your keyboard that automatically generates the dumbest thing possible whenever you press it?

No. I'm telling you how things are.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Suarez would probably have a better reputation if he didn't bite people multiple times in his career.

I think they were more on about Suarez not getting the attention by the European centric fans and overshadowed by others like Lewandowski.

I actually think Uruguay does get deserved attention because of their football CV, but I can't say the same for Costa Rica.

[DeadLinesman]

I think he gets a neg rep because he’s a bit poo. I was fucking devastated when I thought we were getting him and losing De Gea. I assure you, it was sweet fuck all to do with his nationality.......

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

I think he gets a neg rep because he’s a bit poo. I was fucking devastated when I thought we were getting him and losing De Gea. I assure you, it was sweet fuck all to do with his nationality.......

He really isn't.

He gets criticized for the error but everyone goes completely silenced when he makes 4 good saves in the game.

[DeadLinesman]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

He really isn't.

He gets criticized for the error but everyone goes completely silenced when he makes 4 good saves in the game.

His shot stopping has never been questioned, but his decision making and technical ability leave a lot to be desired. Just my humble opinion.

[El Profesor]

18 minutes ago, Blue said:

"Brian is nuts"

 

 

Do those dudes even live in Latin America in first place? Honestly, it pisses me off how latinos in the US push the victim narrative at every opportunity.

Yes, lazy stereotyping regarding nationality happens in football, but this seem more of two dudes trying to say: "Please like the players from my country."

Navas is not questioned because of his nationality but because of how Real Madrid under Florentino Pérez promotes itself. They´re the club that demand excellency at every position, only the best of the best deserve to wear the white shirt. White european  Diego López was just as or more questioned than Navas, who although a very goalkeeper is not among the best at his position.

 

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, DeadLinesman said:

His shot stopping has never been questioned, but his decision making and technical ability leave a lot to be desired. Just my humble opinion.

He gets a lot of criticism in Spain for both goalkeeper’s technical ability and definitely his decision making. His foot technique is practically non existent. But indeed his shot stopping is at times spectacular. 

[Guest]

Just now, DeadLinesman said:

His shot stopping has never been questioned, but his decision making and technical ability leave a lot to be desired. Just my humble opinion.

Saying Navas being a good or bad keeper is all opinion based, I would tend to agree with that.

However, saying that nationality discrimination between fans or club administradors doesn't exist is wrong. The FIFA rankings serve one big purpose: for professional clubs to use it to know where they could scout and sign players from. Euro centrism exists in the game (which has also been shown on this forum) and that's the unfortunate truth. In Peru, we have about 100 Jo's, yet he played for Manchester City while someone like Diego Mayora who is also shite, has played for Deportivo Municipal only because he is Brazilian and Mayora isn't.

[Lucas]

This Real Madrid team is the poorest of the team's I've seen from the side's that have won the previous competition in the last few years ('14, '16, '17).

It would actually be a travesty to see them win it IMO.

[Panflute]

You could see very clearly in the game that the defenders did not trust him enough to get the ball and wilfully conceded corners on multiple occasions. That lack of confidence and coordination can make the difference between winning the CL and going out in the quarter-finals with your tail between your legs.

Granted, Navas has been a solid goalkeeper for Madrid for the past few years. Not as spectacular as Iker Casillas in his prime, but reliable enough and capable of grabbing points for the team. Once that reliability fades, however, it is fair to question his role in the team. You don't want a situation where you'll have to take into account your goalkeeper having a Barthez-like cock-up every other match. Hell, that is the very reason Casillas was forced to leave in the first place.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, El_Loco said:

 

Do those dudes even live in Latin America in first place? Honestly, it pisses me off how latinos in the US push the victim narrative at every opportunity.

Yes, lazy stereotyping regarding nationality happens in football, but this seem more of two dudes trying to say: "Please like the players from my country."

Navas is not questioned because of his nationality but because of how Real Madrid under Florentino Pérez promotes itself. They´re the club that demand excellency at every position, only the best of the best deserve to wear the white shirt. White european  Diego López was just as or more questioned than Navas, who although a very goalkeeper is not among the best at his position.

 

I agree with them on Navas though.

I'll play the devils advocate and say I haven't seen la Liga a whole lot this year, but in the UCL I have rated Navas quite highly. That is all opinion based though. To say clubs will not get put off by nationality though is wrong. Clubs prefer to sign a bad Brazilian over a good Costa Rican for loads of cash. Its just the way things are.

[Panflute]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

Saying Navas being a good or bad keeper is all opinion based, I would tend to agree with that.

However, saying that nationality discrimination between fans or club administradors doesn't exist is wrong. The FIFA rankings serve one big purpose: for professional clubs to use it to know where they could scout and sign players from. Euro centrism exists in the game (which has also been shown on this forum) and that's the unfortunate truth. In Peru, we have about 100 Jo's, yet he played for Manchester City while someone like Diego Mayora who is also shite, has played for Deportivo Municipal only because he is Brazilian and Mayora isn't.

It exists on some level, but it has fuck all to do with Navas being called into question.

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

Saying Navas being a good or bad keeper is all opinion based, I would tend to agree with that.

However, saying that nationality discrimination between fans or club administradors doesn't exist is wrong. The FIFA rankings serve one big purpose: for professional clubs to use it to know where they could scout and sign players from. Euro centrism exists in the game (which has also been shown on this forum) and that's the unfortunate truth. In Peru, we have about 100 Jo's, yet he played for Manchester City while someone like Diego Mayora who is also shite, has played for Deportivo Municipal only because he is Brazilian and Mayora isn't.

I really don’t see European football as being discriminatory at all based on nationality. Scouting for example (at the too echelons of European football) is extremely expensive and clubs these days have permanent scouts in practically every country that plays professional football to a decent standard. Long gone are the days where only the few had networks like this. It’s almost everywhere. 

[Guest]

Just now, Panflute said:

It exists on some level, but it has fuck all to do with Navas being called into question.

I never said that though? 

In case there is any confusion, I was talking about general criticism. I obviously don't think Navas is called out for being Costa Rican just because he makes a mistake.

[Panflute]

Just now, Blue said:

I never said that though? 

In case there is any confusion, I was talking about general criticism. I obviously don't think Navas is called out for being Costa Rican just because he makes a mistake.

"Many will disagree with me, but the agenda filled fans will blame Keylor Navas for not being good enough because he is Costa Rican." - Brian, Anno Domini 2018 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

I really don’t see European football as being discriminatory at all based on nationality. Scouting for example (at the too echelons of European football) is extremely expensive and clubs these days have permanent scouts in practically every country that plays professional football to a decent standard. Long gone are the days where only the few had networks like this. It’s almost everywhere. 

Incorrect.

Scouting agencies are everywhere, but some are less professional then others. I know plenty of scouting agencies that result in good pay in Africa but none here in Peru. That's one reason we never see that many players go abroad, they are all shit. Even Venezuela is better at it than us.

Scouting networks are weaker in some countries then others, but if this was true, we would have as many Colombians in Europe as Argentinians. 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

"Many will disagree with me, but the agenda filled fans will blame Keylor Navas for not being good enough because he is Costa Rican." - Brian, Anno Domini 2018 

Again, may I ask where I said that his error today was to be blamed for being Costa Rican?

[Panflute]

Just now, Blue said:

Again, may I ask where I said that his error today was to be blamed for being Costa Rican?

In that sentence I just quoted, which you posted in the context of this match.

We are also not just talking about his errors tonight, but his recent performance in general. Stop moving the goalposts.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Panflute said:

In that sentence I just quoted, which you posted in the context of this match.

We are also not just talking about his errors tonight, but his recent performance in general. Stop moving the goalposts.

I'm not moving any goalposts at all, go get some reading lectures man.

I said they blame Keylor for not being good enough, I never said it had to do with his errors today. Stop putting words in my mouth just to try and make me look like the idiot. 

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

Incorrect.

Scouting agencies are everywhere, but some are less professional then others. I know plenty of scouting agencies that result in good pay in Africa but none here in Peru. That's one reason we never see that many players go abroad, they are all shit. Even Venezuela is better at it than us.

Scouting networks are weaker in some countries then others, but if this was true, we would have as many Colombians in Europe as Argentinians. 

 

In Spain Barcelona, Real Madrid, Sevilla, Villarreal, Real Betis, Celta Vigo and Espanyol have paid professionals in a multitude of world wide countries and practically the whole of Latin America which includes South America and Central America. Deportivo La Coruña closed theirs down 3 years ago and now use agencies. But I can name you many more Spanish and Portuguese clubs that have professional scouts where the clubs pay for practically all their roaming expenses. There are even second division Spanish clubs with quite a number of permanent scouts in countries like Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil which are the main bedrock producers of footballers for obvious reasons in modern times (that’s not discrimination)