Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 9, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted July 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Harry said: I don't think it's fair to expect this England team to beat this croatia team and be angry if they don't. This Croatian team its provably their last chance for modric, rakitic, mandzukic to win something and its at least a silver generation for them talent wise. No question for me this is a bronze at best generation for England and on paper this game could go either way imo. Best of luck for it in any case I think there's little between the two and I think both teams will be pinching themselves a bit. Both are sides you'd normally expect out in the quarters so the fact one ends up in the final is pretty amazing, yet gutting for the loser. I do agree there's a bigger hint of last chance saloon about it for Croatia - whereas England have the youngest squad in the tournament. We don't really have many star players but we've made fundamental changes to the way we handle tournaments and that's all that I wanted really. I got absolutely sick of us making the same kind of mistakes every time a tournament came around. Even if we looked like things were gradually getting better in qualifying we'd still revert to type in the tournaments - pick non-performing, non-fit players, throw our best 11 players into a team rather than have a coherent system etc... just stupid errors really. We aren't perfect but we've squeezed a lot out of an ordinary squad. In the past we've been totally arrogant. And thanks also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 9, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 hours ago, DeadLinesman said: Croatia have to ability to smash a team if and when they’re big players turn up, which they haven’t so far. England can win this if the same Croatia turn up that played Denmark and Russia. They did Argentina pretty bad to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNORTHODOX Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I like this: also this isn't bad at all: https://streamable.com/jf1ln The two mackems in the team are the most passionate, or at least have less of a lid on their passion than the others. I think in some ways they are a breath of fresh air. I am just really nervous one of them might lose control of the heart they wear on their sleeve. Henderson already did against Colombia really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, Harvsky said: The two mackems in the team are the most passionate, or at least have less of a lid on their passion than the others. I think in some ways they are a breath of fresh air. I am just really nervous one of them might lose control of the heart they wear on their sleeve. Henderson already did against Colombia really. It makes me uncomfortable that I fucking love Pickford now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Cannabis said: Everton aren't we? No, we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted July 9, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted July 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: It makes me uncomfortable that I fucking love Pickford now. It would make me more uncomfortable to meet the man who doesn't fucking love Pickford right now. It is the same for me though, I touched on this earlier in the thread but if this England team does the unthinkable then even Liverpool captain Henderson, Everton turncoat John Stones and the likes of Young and Alli who I've never liked, will become lifelong heroes for me. It's fine though. The reason you hate rival players is because football is tribal at its core and loyalty to a football club makes you feel a part of something. However, supporting your national team is tribal as well, just in a different way. When the World Cup is on the country should come together and support the national team regardless of club loyalties. Looking back it's actually weird that this hasn't been the case in the past, it was wrong and this is right, but that's a symptom of the most recent generation of English players generally ranging from 'not really likeable' (Gerrard, Scholes, Neville) to flat out cunts (Terry, Ashley Cole, Rooney). Most sympathy towards these players was predominantly dictated by individual club bias which I guess is what brought club loyalties into playing for or supporting England. It's shocking to hear Rio Ferdinand come out and admit that when he was playing the club rivalries took priority. This squad possibly benefits from the fact that there are so many players from different teams in the starting lineup. You've got Everton (1), Leicester (1), Manchester City (3), Liverpool (1), Manchester United (2) and Tottenham (3) represented in the starting eleven and a number of those players aren't directly fighting it out for titles every year and also aren't the leading stars for the clubs who are apart from Kane. Also how many of these players are "home grown" for their club teams? Lingard and Kane as far as I know. This is a major contrast compared to England's "Golden Generation" where you had distinct "cliques" of Chelsea players, Liverpool players and Manchester United players who were all leading figures at three of the clubs fighting tooth and nail over Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues for four years before being expected to knit together into a side capable of competing internationally. Looking back it suddenly seems a little bit crazy that the nation expected that to just be fine. You can't take club bias out of it entirely though. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that seeing an Everton goalkeeper make a decisive penalty save in England's first ever shootout victory and being named Man of the Match in a World Cup quarter final isn't a fucking huge cherry on top of this cake. It's a shame that because it's Everton there's always that voice in the back of your head going "alright, Jordan, don't go doing too well please", but who knows, maybe the time the next World Cup comes around we might have changed things as a club and find ourselves in a slightly more positive position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 What a time to be alive. Watched it in Blackpool while on a stag do, just incredible. Great posting @Storts by the way. Sterlng very good. Maguire a national hero and Southgate is GOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: It would make me more uncomfortable to meet the man who doesn't fucking love Pickford right now. It is the same for me though, I touched on this earlier in the thread but if this England team does the unthinkable then even Liverpool captain Henderson, Everton turncoat John Stones and the likes of Young and Alli who I've never liked, will become lifelong heroes for me. It's fine though. The reason you hate rival players is because football is tribal at its core and loyalty to a football club makes you feel a part of something. However, supporting your national team is tribal as well, just in a different way. When the World Cup is on the country should come together and support the national team regardless of club loyalties. Looking back it's actually weird that this hasn't been the case in the past, it was wrong and this is right, but that's a symptom of the most recent generation of English players generally ranging from 'not really likeable' (Gerrard, Scholes, Neville) to flat out cunts (Terry, Ashley Cole, Rooney). Most sympathy towards these players was predominantly dictated by individual club bias which I guess is what brought club loyalties into playing for or supporting England. It's shocking to hear Rio Ferdinand come out and admit that when he was playing the club rivalries took priority. This squad possibly benefits from the fact that there are so many players from different teams in the starting lineup. You've got Everton (1), Leicester (1), Manchester City (3), Liverpool (1), Manchester United (2) and Tottenham (3) represented in the starting eleven and a number of those players aren't directly fighting it out for titles every year and also aren't the leading stars for the clubs who are apart from Kane. Also how many of these players are "home grown" for their club teams? Lingard and Kane as far as I know. This is a major contrast compared to England's "Golden Generation" where you had distinct "cliques" of Chelsea players, Liverpool players and Manchester United players who were all leading figures at three of the clubs fighting tooth and nail over Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues for four years before being expected to knit together into a side capable of competing internationally. Looking back it suddenly seems a little bit crazy that the nation expected that to just be fine. You can't take club bias out of it entirely though. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that seeing an Everton goalkeeper make a decisive penalty save in England's first ever shootout victory and being named Man of the Match in a World Cup quarter final isn't a fucking huge cherry on top of this cake. It's a shame that because it's Everton there's always that voice in the back of your head going "alright, Jordan, don't go doing too well please", but who knows, maybe the time the next World Cup comes around we might have changed things as a club and find ourselves in a slightly more positive position. Fully agree with everything you've said here. I actually thought it was pretty cool against Sweden how 2 of our better players, MOTM in your case with Pickford, were the 2 lads from Merseyside clubs. And it's on the back of Pickford getting some stick for not having as good of a shots-to-saves ratio as he did at Sunderland & Jordan Henderson getting the same usual shite he gets despite being a very effective player. And that fucking ridiculous backheel flick... not a fucking word from the commentator. Imagine if that was Ray Hudson commentating on Messi doing that. But I agree with you, we're seeing less of these distinct cliques rather than the big egos of the stars of England's big clubs getting their lads to group up with them and insist things are done their way. It's very very refreshing for the national side to have players play as an actual team and with passion for their country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storts Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, RandoEFC said: It would make me more uncomfortable to meet the man who doesn't fucking love Pickford right now. It is the same for me though, I touched on this earlier in the thread but if this England team does the unthinkable then even Liverpool captain Henderson, Everton turncoat John Stones and the likes of Young and Alli who I've never liked, will become lifelong heroes for me. It's fine though. The reason you hate rival players is because football is tribal at its core and loyalty to a football club makes you feel a part of something. However, supporting your national team is tribal as well, just in a different way. When the World Cup is on the country should come together and support the national team regardless of club loyalties. Looking back it's actually weird that this hasn't been the case in the past, it was wrong and this is right, but that's a symptom of the most recent generation of English players generally ranging from 'not really likeable' (Gerrard, Scholes, Neville) to flat out cunts (Terry, Ashley Cole, Rooney). Most sympathy towards these players was predominantly dictated by individual club bias which I guess is what brought club loyalties into playing for or supporting England. It's shocking to hear Rio Ferdinand come out and admit that when he was playing the club rivalries took priority. This squad possibly benefits from the fact that there are so many players from different teams in the starting lineup. You've got Everton (1), Leicester (1), Manchester City (3), Liverpool (1), Manchester United (2) and Tottenham (3) represented in the starting eleven and a number of those players aren't directly fighting it out for titles every year and also aren't the leading stars for the clubs who are apart from Kane. Also how many of these players are "home grown" for their club teams? Lingard and Kane as far as I know. This is a major contrast compared to England's "Golden Generation" where you had distinct "cliques" of Chelsea players, Liverpool players and Manchester United players who were all leading figures at three of the clubs fighting tooth and nail over Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues for four years before being expected to knit together into a side capable of competing internationally. Looking back it suddenly seems a little bit crazy that the nation expected that to just be fine. You can't take club bias out of it entirely though. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that seeing an Everton goalkeeper make a decisive penalty save in England's first ever shootout victory and being named Man of the Match in a World Cup quarter final isn't a fucking huge cherry on top of this cake. It's a shame that because it's Everton there's always that voice in the back of your head going "alright, Jordan, don't go doing too well please", but who knows, maybe the time the next World Cup comes around we might have changed things as a club and find ourselves in a slightly more positive position. Great post - it's going to be refreshing to see the reception England players are going to get around the country after this World Cup compared to previous tournaments. Think there will be a lot of admiration for a few weeks until the PL fully kicks back in and rivalry is renewed. In terms of what you've said, I think you have to give Kane, and Southgate, such great credit for that atmosphere. They're both just top down to earth guys, no real drama, both passionate leaders in there own way but very understated. I think the squad harmony can be largely attributed to those two, and Kane is the perfect captain for a Southgate England team. Then you've got passionate players in their first tournaments like Pickford etc. that you can see what it means to them. Club captains like Hendo who clearly just appreciates the opportunity he's got and will run through brick walls for the team - and just a great blend of youth with a few experienced heads. Probably the best, worst tournament squad I've seen us have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted July 9, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted July 9, 2018 It's a squad of good characters that have made for a positive dressing room. It's been clear from the off Southgate wanted this and he's got it spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, RandoEFC said: They did Argentina pretty bad to be fair. Forgot about that to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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