Everton Discussion

[Dr. Gonzo]

23 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

It's a relief. Sounds like his ankle took the brunt of the damage, which is not as bad as if the break had occurred in his lower leg like Oviedo, Coleman, McCarthy all had.

I'm glad he will make a full recovery. We can't take it for granted that he'll be the player he used to be though. This is a guy who openly admits he struggled with mental health issues at Barcelona so it's easy to see him taking some more time to feel comfortable fully committing to every sprint and tackle when he's back on the pitch. This also isn't a given though, he could be no different to any other player in that sense.

Hopefully he comes back like he hasn’t missed a beat. It really all depends on how successful his rehabilitation goes and then yeah, whether he can keep his spirits high over a lengthy layoff.

Something with us that’s been a bit shit with some of our lengthy injuries has been players like Lallana and Oxlade-Chamberlain suffering setbacks in rehab and lengthening the time they were out injured.

But it’s good to hear it’s not as bad as initially feared.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Dr. Gonzo

[RandoEFC+]

A very special effort here from Paul Joyce. The Times publish an article on how Richarlison going down easily is punishing Everton as he isn't getting decisions when he is actually fouled. I don't deny that Richarlison goes down easily and it pisses me off but the picture captioning the article has widely been agreed as a penalty by most experts, when he was brought down by Sanchez in the penalty area.

Like I say, Richarlison spends far too much unnecessary time on the floor, but that doesn't mean when he doesn't get decisions, it's his fault. Especially now that we have video replays, the officials making correct decisions is the responsibility of, and this will blow your mind, the officials, not Richarlison or any other player. It isn't his fault that Sanchez wasn't penalised for this foul or that Sanchez again wasn't sent off for bringing him down as the last man in injury time, though in that instance you could argue Richarlison had knocked the ball too far to get it back.

It's also a cracking effort from Joyce to print an article criticising an Everton player for diving at his team's expense, when the other team he is responsible for covering literally had a player booked for simulation this weekend.

[Stan]

Yeah Richarlison does go down easily usually but that was a penalty for me. Sanchez clearly impedes him and I'm amazed it wasn't overturned during the game.

[RandoEFC+]

I'm sorry but if we're genuinely considering dumping Silva for one of these dinosaurs it's nothing short of gross negligence. If Hughes becomes our manager with his record I'm actually done. The level of disrespect that shows to the fans who have been promised candyfloss rainbows and gum drop bicycles and been delivered fleas and rotten eggs these last few years would be outrageous.

As to our fans who want Silva sacked because he hasn't kicked off enough over Gomes, Son, VAR and Richarlison the last couple of weeks, careful what you wish for.

[LFCMadLad]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I'm sorry but if we're genuinely considering dumping Silva for one of these dinosaurs it's nothing short of gross negligence. If Hughes becomes our manager with his record I'm actually done. The level of disrespect that shows to the fans who have been promised candyfloss rainbows and gum drop bicycles and been delivered fleas and rotten eggs these last few years would be outrageous.

As to our fans who want Silva sacked because he hasn't kicked off enough over Gomes, Son, VAR and Richarlison the last couple of weeks, careful what you wish for.

[Stan]

These are brilliant

 

[RandoEFC+]

18 minutes ago, Stan said:

These are brilliant

 

I have been thoroughly enjoying them. Aggressive insults that only a scouser could come out with read out in computerised monotone .

[Stan]

Not worked out for Kean... 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Certainly doesn't seem to be trusted at the moment, I'd hope there would be some sensible heads and plenty of time given but wouldn't be surprised to see him return end of the season.

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Not worked out for Kean... 

 

That 7 goal target he set himself at the start of the season certainly seems to be a bit over ambitious

[RandoEFC+]

3 hours ago, Stan said:

Not worked out for Kean... 

 

Apparently they have a very strained relationship and haven't seen eye to eye for years. Part of his interview suggested that he hasn't actually spoken to his son about this so I'd bear that in mind when deciding how much to read into this. Good attention grabbing headline though, classic international break.

[Stan]

So if Everton backed Walsh, you could have had a team of Robertson, Maguire, Haaland and Evans... 

Imagine hiring someone for their experience and knowledge and then not fully backing him in the transfer market...

[LFCMadLad]

21 minutes ago, Stan said:

So if Everton backed Walsh, you could have had a team of Robertson, Maguire, Haaland and Evans... 

Imagine hiring someone for their experience and knowledge and then not fully backing him in the transfer market...

Everton that 

So they could have had one of the best LB's in the world along with a CB that just cost Utd £80m.... both for £20m 

Edited November 18, 2019 by LFCMadLad

[RandoEFC+]

42 minutes ago, Stan said:

So if Everton backed Walsh, you could have had a team of Robertson, Maguire, Haaland and Evans... 

Imagine hiring someone for their experience and knowledge and then not fully backing him in the transfer market...

Can't see the tweet as I'm at work but this is hearsay and speculation. Anyone can claim ifs and buts but the facts of what actually happened are that Walsh along with Koeman set us back 3-4 years with arguably the worst summer of recruitment by any team in the Premier League era.

Steve Walsh is such a genius he said that we don't need to replace Lukaku because all of the other attackers we signed (Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Sandro and Bolasie that is) would score enough goals to make up for it. The man, at Everton at least, was a fraud. Fault must go to the people who gave him the Director of Football role though when he was actually only a scout at Leicester.

[Stan]

22 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Can't see the tweet as I'm at work but this is hearsay and speculation. Anyone can claim ifs and buts but the facts of what actually happened are that Walsh along with Koeman set us back 3-4 years with arguably the worst summer of recruitment by any team in the Premier League era.

Steve Walsh is such a genius he said that we don't need to replace Lukaku because all of the other attackers we signed (Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Sandro and Bolasie that is) would score enough goals to make up for it. The man, at Everton at least, was a fraud. Fault must go to the people who gave him the Director of Football role though when he was actually only a scout at Leicester.

Should/would the fault not go to anyone at the club who refused to go forward with what Walsh suggested?

Also, would it count as hearsay and speculation if it comes from Walsh himself? 

[LFCMadLad]

17 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Can't see the tweet as I'm at work but this is hearsay and speculation. Anyone can claim ifs and buts but the facts of what actually happened are that Walsh along with Koeman set us back 3-4 years with arguably the worst summer of recruitment by any team in the Premier League era.

Steve Walsh is such a genius he said that we don't need to replace Lukaku because all of the other attackers we signed (Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Sandro and Bolasie that is) would score enough goals to make up for it. The man, at Everton at least, was a fraud. Fault must go to the people who gave him the Director of Football role though when he was actually only a scout at Leicester.

Hearsay and speculation? It came from Walsh himself? 

[RandoEFC+]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

Should/would the club not go to anyone at the club who refused to go forward with what Walsh suggested?

Also, would it count as hearsay and speculation if it comes from Walsh himself? 

 

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Hearsay and speculation? It came from Walsh himself? 

After they listened to him on Klaassen and Sandro maybe they didn't feel like listening to him again?

Come on guys, I know Stan that you partially credit Walsh with Leicester's title, and LFCMadLad you want another excuse to make Everton look stupid, but this isn't the first time someone who was sacked by their former employer for doing a bad job (a really, really bad job) has come out and made claims that make themselves look better for the sake of their own reputation. He's unemployed right now isn't he? He's hardly going to talk publicly about the bad signings he made when he's looking for work. I can buy that Robertson was on a list somewhere at some point but the fact that we didn't go in for him or the others isn't evidence that Walsh wasn't backed. We brought several of his signings to the club. Even after Koeman was sacked, Cenk Tosun was Walsh's suggestion for centre forward, signed for just under £30m, bang average player. The bloke was out of his depth. Gueye was the only really good thing he did for the club.

[Stan]

26 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

 

After they listened to him on Klaassen and Sandro maybe they didn't feel like listening to him again?

Come on guys, I know Stan that you partially credit Walsh with Leicester's title, and LFCMadLad you want another excuse to make Everton look stupid, but this isn't the first time someone who was sacked by their former employer for doing a bad job (a really, really bad job) has come out and made claims that make themselves look better for the sake of their own reputation. He's unemployed right now isn't he? He's hardly going to talk publicly about the bad signings he made when he's looking for work. I can buy that Robertson was on a list somewhere at some point but the fact that we didn't go in for him or the others isn't evidence that Walsh wasn't backed. We brought several of his signings to the club. Even after Koeman was sacked, Cenk Tosun was Walsh's suggestion for centre forward, signed for just under £30m, bang average player. The bloke was out of his depth. Gueye was the only really good thing he did for the club.

Put that way, it's perhaps more fairer and perhaps the different kind of role didn't suit. There's evidence that he was and wasn't backed. Unfortunate that he was perhaps backed with the wrong players - is there evidence to suggest that the club were looking at some of the (bad) players before Walsh arrived anyway? I ask as there are some players that we scout for 1-2 years in some cases before completing the deal. 

So is Walsh to blame for all bad signings but potentially not given any credit for players that could have been stars? The change in manager may not have helped (going from Koeman to Allardyce is a massive change to be fair as well). 

 

[LFCMike]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

 

After they listened to him on Klaassen and Sandro maybe they didn't feel like listening to him again?

Come on guys, I know Stan that you partially credit Walsh with Leicester's title, and LFCMadLad you want another excuse to make Everton look stupid, but this isn't the first time someone who was sacked by their former employer for doing a bad job (a really, really bad job) has come out and made claims that make themselves look better for the sake of their own reputation. He's unemployed right now isn't he? He's hardly going to talk publicly about the bad signings he made when he's looking for work. I can buy that Robertson was on a list somewhere at some point but the fact that we didn't go in for him or the others isn't evidence that Walsh wasn't backed. We brought several of his signings to the club. Even after Koeman was sacked, Cenk Tosun was Walsh's suggestion for centre forward, signed for just under £30m, bang average player. The bloke was out of his depth. Gueye was the only really good thing he did for the club.

Robertson and Maguire would have been available from Hull the same summer as the two signings you mention so he wouldn't have failed with them at that point.

I agree with your point that this happens a lot with ex club employees speaking out to make themselves look better though and the truth is normally somewhere in between

[RandoEFC+]

58 minutes ago, Stan said:

Put that way, it's perhaps more fairer and perhaps the different kind of role didn't suit. There's evidence that he was and wasn't backed. Unfortunate that he was perhaps backed with the wrong players - is there evidence to suggest that the club were looking at some of the (bad) players before Walsh arrived anyway? I ask as there are some players that we scout for 1-2 years in some cases before completing the deal. 

So is Walsh to blame for all bad signings but potentially not given any credit for players that could have been stars? The change in manager may not have helped (going from Koeman to Allardyce is a massive change to be fair as well). 

 

Walsh was definitely only part of the problem. If you look at the CAM situation as an example, Walsh wanted Davy Klaassen, Koeman wanted Gylfi Sigurdsson and it seemed that Kenwright was behind getting Rooney back to the club. It was our first attempt at having a Director of Football, and it became clear quickly that it hadn't been implemented properly at all and everyone was stepping on each other's toes. God knows how it was allowed to happen but thankfully the board was overhauled and now we have Brands who has a clearly-defined role, a new CEO etc. Hopefully Moshiri has learned from his mistakes the first time around.

He gets credit for Idrissa Gueye but the rest of the Koeman/Walsh signings that made it at Everton (Pickford, Sigurdsson, Keane etc.) may have been his ideas, but he was brought in to unearth the Mahrez/Kante type gems that he got credit for at Leicester and just didn't. Even if the likes of Pickford were "his signings" it's not like basically any other person could have had the foresight to sign the best players from the clubs below us in the league.

16 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Robertson and Maguire would have been available from Hull the same summer as the two signings you mention so he wouldn't have failed with them at that point.

I agree with your point that this happens a lot with ex club employees speaking out to make themselves look better though and the truth is normally somewhere in between

I don't remember the timings too clearly but if we had the opportunity to sign Robertson and ended up with Cuco Martina (a right back) filling in for Baines when he got injured mid-season then that pretty much sums up the transfer policy at that time. Thankfully we have Digne now so don't have to lose too much sleep over the left back position. Maguire would definitely have got in our team and it would have been positive for us of course if we were the ones who mugged United off for that £80m. As a player though I don't think we're missing that much, definitely not as big a miss as Robertson.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Can't see the tweet as I'm at work but this is hearsay and speculation. Anyone can claim ifs and buts but the facts of what actually happened are that Walsh along with Koeman set us back 3-4 years with arguably the worst summer of recruitment by any team in the Premier League era.

Steve Walsh is such a genius he said that we don't need to replace Lukaku because all of the other attackers we signed (Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Sandro and Bolasie that is) would score enough goals to make up for it. The man, at Everton at least, was a fraud. Fault must go to the people who gave him the Director of Football role though when he was actually only a scout at Leicester.

What’s wrong with making a scout Director of Football? We made our head scout director of football and he’s been brilliant in terms of judging players and assessing the value of them (and of our own squad).

It actually makes a lot of sense to me that you’d promote a scout to be a DoF - it’s their job to assess and value players already, so that’s a big part of a DoF’s job.

If it’s true Walsh identified top players at good prices for Everton and wasn’t backed - that’s really not his fault at all tbh. I wonder if these signings weren’t considered “ambitious” enough - as it’s a got more glamour when you buy from Ajax and Barca.

Either way, no sense in dwelling on a relationship that didn’t work. If the board didn’t back him you’d hope they learn their lessons and back Brands.

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What’s wrong with making a scout Director of Football? We made our head scout director of football and he’s been brilliant in terms of judging players and assessing the value of them (and of our own squad).

It actually makes a lot of sense to me that you’d promote a scout to be a DoF - it’s their job to assess and value players already, so that’s a big part of a DoF’s job.

If it’s true Walsh identified top players at good prices for Everton and wasn’t backed - that’s really not his fault at all tbh. I wonder if these signings weren’t considered “ambitious” enough - as it’s a got more glamour when you buy from Ajax and Barca.

Either way, no sense in dwelling on a relationship that didn’t work. If the board didn’t back him you’d hope they learn their lessons and back Brands.

I think I've covered most of this above. Having a man who has never been a director of football do the job at a club that's never had a director of football under an owner who's new to football and a chairman who's a bit of a footballing dinosaur isn't really a great combination. A director of football does more than just scout players as well. Scouts are responsible for identifying and evaluating players. A director of football is there to ensure that the club's overall footballing philosophy stays in tact even if you have to change managers and also has a lot to do with the finances.

It was partly the fault of the people who gave him the job that his role wasn't made clear enough and he wasn't supported in being good at the things he wasn't already good at, but I also stand by my criticism of Walsh. It was a shambolic setup all round and Brands is a big improvement as he's done the job before at PSV with success and actually knows what a good DoF should do, something that we as a club don't know because we've never had one before now.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I think I've covered most of this above. Having a man who has never been a director of football do the job at a club that's never had a director of football under an owner who's new to football and a chairman who's a bit of a footballing dinosaur isn't really a great combination. A director of football does more than just scout players as well. Scouts are responsible for identifying and evaluating players. A director of football is there to ensure that the club's overall footballing philosophy stays in tact even if you have to change managers and also has a lot to do with the finances.

It was partly the fault of the people who gave him the job that his role wasn't made clear enough and he wasn't supported in being good at the things he wasn't already good at, but I also stand by my criticism of Walsh. It was a shambolic setup all round and Brands is a big improvement as he's done the job before at PSV with success and actually knows what a good DoF should do, something that we as a club don't know because we've never had one before now.

Our first experience with a DOF was also a miserable failure as well - but he actually had experience in that role before. Then we had Rodgers, who refused to work under a DOF and was part of our famed "transfer committee" that actually signed good players when they weren't the players handpicked by Rodgers - just that Rodgers didn't have a clue on how to use the players he didn't pick (granted, he also wasn't that great with a number of the players he did pick). Third time was the charm with us... but it was with Michael Edwards, who didn't really have any experience in the role. He was just our head scout. Turns out he's more than good at identifying players, because he's proven himself to be one hell of a negotiator as well - especially with our outgoing transfers.

It's probably something that differs by club, how well the DOF will actually operate. Because like you say, I don't think Walsh was necessarily in the best environment for him to thrive in the role - whereas Brands's bosses are probably going to be a bit more hands off unless things are absolutely going tits up on the pitch. 

[Dan+]

I agree the truth is probably somewhere in-between. If it's true that he wasn't being backed though - what exactly was he there for?

I can totally believe he'd have wanted all of those players but there's bound to be a few gems in there regardless. Easy to say now.

I do think though for all the stick he gets at Everton - you clearly didn't implement whatever Walsh did at Leicester. Granted, he was operating on quite a different budget to what he started with here. When you read the full article he seems to relish the blank canvas and being forced into some kind of innovation. At Everton you had immediate expectations, that of course were nowhere close to being met.

It'd likely be a different story if Walsh came into Leicester a year ago for example.

[RandoEFC+]

If Silva does get sacked my preference for his replacement from those who have been mentioned go like this:

1. Benitez or Arteta.

2. Any other unknown quantity that I can convince myself might be good.

3. Moyes until the end of the season.

4. Unsworth until the end of the season.

5. Literally any other person, dead or alive.

6. Mark Hughes.