Everton Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

@Dr. Gonzo @LFCMadLad there doesn't seem to be any major consensus from the usual sources on Twitter so I don't know. There has been a lot of talk about Gallardo who has just won the Copa Libertadores, but nothing more than shortening odds and longing stares from some of our fans that follow South American football a bit.

I doubt Silva would actually get sacked if he won at Anfield, not that he will. Perhaps if he did then they'd still be waiting for the next loss as the excuse to give him the boot.

I still like the bloke, think he's very misunderstood and has been very unlucky this season. It would still be underachieving but we've been good enough to be comfortably mid-table, not 17th. A lot of stuff has happened that's not his fault. The club failed to secure a Zouma replacement because David Luiz had a hissy fit which cost us our plan A (Zouma) and our plan B (Tomori loan) for the CB position. Gbamin was signed to replace Gueye and he gets injured for months. Gomes out for the season. Delph unable to stay fit for more than 2 games in a row. Individual mistakes by players, VAR at Brighton, what a season it has been. It's a results business though, as they say.

[Stan]

New contract for Richarlison

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Should get a good fee in the summer. 

[Stan]

My favourite one of the season for obvious reasons. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Moyes - no, couldn't even be fully confident he'd improve us and don't trust Bill not to give him an extension in the summer.

Gallardo - don't know anything about him. 

Howe - not convinced, think he'd go the same way as Martinez and Silva. Decent 6-12 months before the same old flaws are exposed.

Benitez - would have him tomorrow if he's a genuine possibility.

Simeone - lol.

Poch - lol.

Arteta - yes please but also maybe not because we're 18th and could genuinely go down if he's bad.

Hughes - fuck off.

Emery - no thanks, could still see us going down if he took over.

Jesus - know nothing about him.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

Jesus - know nothing about him.

He's not a fan of crosses

[LFCMadLad]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's not a fan of crosses

Nailed on 

 

[RandoEFC+]

Turning water into wine is probably easier than turning Everton into a respectable outfit.

[Stan]

45 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's not a fan of crosses

definite miracles needed at Everton though...

[Dr. Gonzo]

@RandoEFC - this might not be the best time to ask this, shortly after a derby match that went just about as poorly as it could have for you.. but the derby got me thinking this while we were 4-1 up: Is Marcel Brands part of the problem at Everton right now?

Because yeah, sure, a big part of the issues with Everton right now fall squarely on the manager's shoulders. The tactics being questionable and shite like that. But the issues with recruitment and the overall effort we're seeing from the players are partially on Silva (well, I imagine he has at least a say on who Everton bring in)… but recruitment is primarily Brands' domain. And the players not putting in the required effort to be at a top flight club, let alone a club like Everton... that's on the fucking players IMO.

My thoughts are... Brands is probably to blame at least a bit... but how much is his fault, it's really hard to say. It's got to be hard trying to come into a club that's been lacking in stability and try to give it some stability... but right now I don't think anyone can say that's what's happening at Everton.

Personally, I actually feel for Silva - although I think he's lost the players and his tactics today were laughable and he probably deserves the sack based on this season's showing. I think if I were an Evertonian most of my anger at the situation of the club would be directed at the players, many of whom aren't fit to wear the shirt.

And on another note, here's why I hope Everton don't ever go down - despite being our local rivals: 

A reminder that while people up and down the country fucking hate us as a club irrationally because we're Scouse, Everton are the ones who hate us for actual football reasons and have stood with us while the rest of the nation wants to shit on Scousers. Brought a smile to my face seeing this banner, especially after Twitter just fucking banned me because I told Trevor Sinclair to go fist himself and called him a Manc cunt after he called us bin dippers.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@RandoEFC - this might not be the best time to ask this, shortly after a derby match that went just about as poorly as it could have for you.. but the derby got me thinking this while we were 4-1 up: Is Marcel Brands part of the problem at Everton right now?

Because yeah, sure, a big part of the issues with Everton right now fall squarely on the manager's shoulders. The tactics being questionable and shite like that. But the issues with recruitment and the overall effort we're seeing from the players are partially on Silva (well, I imagine he has at least a say on who Everton bring in)… but recruitment is primarily Brands' domain. And the players not putting in the required effort to be at a top flight club, let alone a club like Everton... that's on the fucking players IMO.

My thoughts are... Brands is probably to blame at least a bit... but how much is his fault, it's really hard to say. It's got to be hard trying to come into a club that's been lacking in stability and try to give it some stability... but right now I don't think anyone can say that's what's happening at Everton.

Personally, I actually feel for Silva - although I think he's lost the players and his tactics today were laughable and he probably deserves the sack based on this season's showing. I think if I were an Evertonian most of my anger at the situation of the club would be directed at the players, many of whom aren't fit to wear the shirt.

And on another note, here's why I hope Everton don't ever go down - despite being our local rivals: 

A reminder that while people up and down the country fucking hate us as a club irrationally because we're Scouse, Everton are the ones who hate us for actual football reasons and have stood with us while the rest of the nation wants to shit on Scousers. Brought a smile to my face seeing this banner, especially after Twitter just fucking banned me because I told Trevor Sinclair to go fist himself and called him a Manc cunt after he called us bin dippers.

Silva came in just before Brands, although negotiations were underway I think. Moshiri was really set on Silva so I think that was happening whether Brands likes it or not. Brands is now on the board as the Director of Football. Really he should be choosing the next manager himself, otherwise what's the point? 

There have been some concerning rumours though about who is still influencing what. This goes way back to before Brands' time when Walsh was the Director of Football. Apparently Koeman was adamant on bringing in Sigurdsson, Walsh wanted Klaassen and Kenwright was the driving force behind Rooney's return. So who is in charge really? Apparently this summer Moshiri was the one who wanted Zaha because he wanted a statement signing, even though Brands didn't necessarily want him. We didn't sign him but the club did enter negotiations which shows, if the rumour is true, that Moshiri has some influence on transfers still.

Amidst the growing rumours of Silva's demise there were further reports the other week that Kenwright was pushing for a Moyes return, Moshiri pulled the plug when he realised the fans were against it. Again, rumours, but probably a little bit true at least. For me, the decision should lie with Brands, he is a football man with a track record at PSV. Moshiri and Kenwright are not.

Recruitment... hopefully things have changed since the summer of number tens and this is more closely controlled by Brands and the manager. Since they've been working together, we've generally got good deals for incomings and outgoings and the average age of the squad has been resolved, so Brands has had the credit for good negotiating. Bernard on a free, Digne for £18m, while fetching £30m for Gueye, £20m+ for Lookman, £15m for Vlasic and £10m for Rooney. The targets though, I can't honestly be sure whether it's him or Silva who have overseen it. I definitely think Brands and his team fucked up on the centre back issue this summer, I'll say that much.

I wouldn't blame him yet besides that. I still think the players we've brought in over the last two summers have a lot of potential. I would say that when Silva gets sacked, the time has come for him to prove himself. He needs to get the right manager in to get the best out of an expensive and talented set of players. I just hope he's allowed to control it because I dont like the sound of Moshiri and Kenwright driving the discussions a week or two back. If those two don't let Brands get on with it then I'd blame them more than I'd blame him to be honest.

Silva's downfall is a great shame. The players seemed to really buy into him and several of those who joined last summer said that he was a deciding factor in their choice to come. He's been unlucky but ultimately he hasn't done enough to arrest the slide. I like him as a bloke because he seems to concentrate on his job and keeps the media stuff low key. A similar personality to me really. I think he'll eventually be successful elsewhere but he probably needs to retreat from the Premier League for now.

The players, yeah, seems like they're shithouses but I've been saying that since the late Martinez era and we've pretty much changed the whole squad since then. There's clearly a rot in the dressing room that has passed through a generation of our squad now. Clearly changing all of the players doesn't fix it so you have to get a manager in who can revive the vast majority of them and then sack off the real dead wood. We're still suffering from the Koeman/Walsh spending spree because players like Keane, Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson were brought in to play a style of football that just doesn't cut it if you want to take risks and push on from mid table.

Brands' job now is to make sure the general philosophy of using young, footballing players remains in place even while the manager changes. Probably the biggest role he has at the club as the mad jumps between style of football between Martinez then Koeman then Allardyce then Silva and their respective signings has left us in this mess. Silva has started to go down a progressive route even if the results haven't accompanied the philosophy, so we need to maintain that trajectory for a few more years and then we will ideally have removed that issue.

As for Sinclair, was very surprised to see that tweet. Very disappointing.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Silva came in just before Brands, although negotiations were underway I think. Moshiri was really set on Silva so I think that was happening whether Brands likes it or not. Brands is now on the board as the Director of Football. Really he should be choosing the next manager himself, otherwise what's the point? 100% agree with you there mate - he's got to be picking the next manager himself. It's his job to be looking after Everton's long term goals as well as the short term goals. I didn't know that Brands was brought in after Silva - that makes me think Brands shouldn't shoulder as much blame as Silva (and the people above both of them tbh).

There have been some concerning rumours though about who is still influencing what. This goes way back to before Brands' time when Walsh was the Director of Football. Apparently Koeman was adamant on bringing in Sigurdsson, Walsh wanted Klaassen and Kenwright was the driving force behind Rooney's return. So who is in charge really? Apparently this summer Moshiri was the one who wanted Zaha because he wanted a statement signing, even though Brands didn't necessarily want him. We didn't sign him but the club did enter negotiations which shows, if the rumour is true, that Moshiri has some influence on transfers still. That has to be worrying for you, at least to a degree. Although I thought at the beginning of the season that Zaha would be a good player at Everton (and I still think that - but I'm in the camp that believes that Zaha nowadays would be a good player at almost every club in the country)… there's an argument to be made that he's not really what Everton currently need right now.

Amidst the growing rumours of Silva's demise there were further reports the other week that Kenwright was pushing for a Moyes return, Moshiri pulled the plug when he realised the fans were against it. Again, rumours, but probably a little bit true at least. For me, the decision should lie with Brands, he is a football man with a track record at PSV. Moshiri and Kenwright are not. Yeah, Kenwright's tenure only has one real bright spot, imo, the Moyes era. Other than that... meh. Moshiri's strengths clearly lie in business and having money, rather than anything he's done in football (has he done anything other than his time at Everton, genuinely have no idea) - tbh, all I really know about him is he's rich pals with a Russian oligarch and his wife's done a shitload of the UK Persian community.

But, obviously, you'd hope the football decisions are being made primarily by the man who they've hired to make the football decisions. Genuinely hope for your sake that they trust him to find your next manager and then back that manager as though he was their own choice.

Recruitment... hopefully things have changed since the summer of number tens and this is more closely controlled by Brands and the manager. Since they've been working together, we've generally got good deals for incomings and outgoings and the average age of the squad has been resolved, so Brands has had the credit for good negotiating. Bernard on a free, Digne for £18m, while fetching £30m for Gueye, £20m+ for Lookman, £15m for Vlasic and £10m for Rooney. The targets though, I can't honestly be sure whether it's him or Silva who have overseen it. I definitely think Brands and his team fucked up on the centre back issue this summer, I'll say that much.

I wouldn't blame him yet besides that. I still think the players we've brought in over the last two summers have a lot of potential. I would say that when Silva gets sacked, the time has come for him to prove himself. He needs to get the right manager in to get the best out of an expensive and talented set of players. I just hope he's allowed to control it because I dont like the sound of Moshiri and Kenwright driving the discussions a week or two back. If those two don't let Brands get on with it then I'd blame them more than I'd blame him to be honest.

Fair enough.

Silva's downfall is a great shame. The players seemed to really buy into him and several of those who joined last summer said that he was a deciding factor in their choice to come. He's been unlucky but ultimately he hasn't done enough to arrest the slide. I like him as a bloke because he seems to concentrate on his job and keeps the media stuff low key. A similar personality to me really. I think he'll eventually be successful elsewhere but he probably needs to retreat from the Premier League for now.

Seeing an Everton manager look so broken after the match against Leicester was a bit funny to me as a red, but a part of me genuinely felt for him He looked like he was going to cry. Seeing him look like he wanted to kill himself in the post-match interview tonight made me REALLY feel for him... even though I'm obviously elated we've won that while scoring a lot of goals.

Those post match questions they asked him too... those interviewers are either thick as fuck or just cruel. I'd like to see him be able to turn it around tbh... but I just can't see that happen. It looks like he's completely lost the dressing room - if the rumours of him being sacked in the morning are true (which tbh, if the club were going to sack him before this match... I think it's cruel make let his last match be overseeing a club in disarray at Anfield with us in the form we're in) - it's certainly believable and it seems like the players know.

Taking rivalry and emotion out of it... seeing Silva's dejected face on TV the last two matches really just shows how harsh the job they have is. The pressure he's been working under is clearly taking it's toll, he's supervising people that don't seem to have it in them to fight to save him. It just seems so shit for him.

The players, yeah, seems like they're shithouses but I've been saying that since the late Martinez era and we've pretty much changed the whole squad since then. There's clearly a rot in the dressing room that has passed through a generation of our squad now. Clearly changing all of the players doesn't fix it so you have to get a manager in who can revive the vast majority of them and then sack off the real dead wood. We're still suffering from the Koeman/Walsh spending spree because players like Keane, Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson were brought in to play a style of football that just doesn't cut it if you want to take risks and push on from mid table.

Yeah, like I said... if I was an Evertonian so much of my rage would be directed at the players. It's tough work for Brands/Silva (or whoever comes in to replace Silva) to have to try to fix a club's culture like that too - you don't want to be a little version of pre-transfer ban Chelsea, where you experience a brief uptick in form each new manager but then once the players feel they've had enough of working for that guy they just down tools til they have a new boss (then they just rinse and repeat it).

Honestly, I have no idea how anyone would go about fixing that sort of situation. The best idea I have for that is you appoint a club legend that the fans would be slower to turn on than the players... like Chelsea did with Lampard. That's easier said than done though - how many Everton legends are into coaching/management that would be ready for a challenge like Everton? And a challenge like Everton while they're currently where no club wants to be in the table?

There's Arteta… but he's still pretty untested. And I think it's one thing to seem like a very good coach while you're assisting Pep Guardiola at Manchester City. It's another thing when you're no longer working under the guidance of the most influential manager (arguably at least) of our time and you don't have unlimited oil money for signings.

Brands' job now is to make sure the general philosophy of using young, footballing players remains in place even while the manager changes. Probably the biggest role he has at the club as the mad jumps between style of football between Martinez then Koeman then Allardyce then Silva and their respective signings has left us in this mess. Silva has started to go down a progressive route even if the results haven't accompanied the philosophy, so we need to maintain that trajectory for a few more years and then we will ideally have removed that issue.

Yep - years of short term thinking have absolutely fucked you in the long run. The way to actually fix that is to actually be able to build towards long term goals.

Although now in the immediate short term, getting the fuck away from the relegation spots is absolutely the top priority. On paper, that squad should be closer to top 6 IMO (granted, I now think some of your players are utter dogshite & I didn't at the start of the season - but that could just be recency bias).

As for Sinclair, was very surprised to see that tweet. Very disappointing.

Fuck twitter for banning me though (well, suspending me for 12 hours; but once that suspension's up I'm deleting my twitter and never using the fucking thing again) - absolute twats. They let famous people say outrageous shit with impunity, but should a famous person be given any of that shit back to them... "oh no... think of the poor millionaire's feelings!!!!11one" Fuck em.

 

[LFCMadLad]

Everton bottom 3 and with these next:

Chelsea (H)
United (A)
Leicester (H) - league cup
Arsenal (A)
Burnley (H)

Could be in serious trouble here 

[RandoEFC+]

What on earth is going on? What are Moshiri, Kenwright and co. spending so much time on? There's nothing to discuss. It's just cruel potentially leaving Silva in charge for Saturday at Goodison. We've got to be the most ponderous, dithering club in the country. I don't want us to be Watford but please just make a decision and get it done.

The worst part about us taking so long to make a decision is that last time we spent all that time faffing around over a manager and ended up with Fat Sam. This time it'll be the same except Moyes instead.

If Moshiri is in charge of selecting the next manager as well then what is the actual point in Brands?

[The Artful Dodger]

Gone.

[Cicero]

3 points for Everton Saturday 

[The Artful Dodger]

Doesn't seem to be confirmed as I was told.

[Dr. Gonzo]

How has Duncan Ferguson survived so many managerial changes? Is he actually a good football coach? I feel like not since Lukaku have Everton strikers really looked like... decent strikers... so he can't be great as a strikers coach, if that's what he's up to? Then again, I know fuck all about the coaching dynamics at Everton, so there's a good chance he's a good coach that has survived so many managers based on extreme competence. I just have no idea what he does really... but he has survived a lot of managerial changes and it does beg the question... why?

If it's sentimentality over his competence, Everton need to do the tough thing and tell a legend it's time to go. If he's genuinely good at his job, fair enough. If it's because nobody's got the bollocks to sack him then lol

[RandoEFC+]

Finally confirmed. By everyone apart from the club itself.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Holy shit they're putting Duncan Ferguson in charge literally minutes after I made that post questioning what the fuck he does at Everton! A member of the Everton board lurks among us!

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How has Duncan Ferguson survived so many managerial changes? Is he actually a good football coach? I feel like not since Lukaku have Everton strikers really looked like... decent strikers... so he can't be great as a strikers coach, if that's what he's up to? Then again, I know fuck all about the coaching dynamics at Everton, so there's a good chance he's a good coach that has survived so many managers based on extreme competence. I just have no idea what he does really... but he has survived a lot of managerial changes and it does beg the question... why?

If it's sentimentality over his competence, Everton need to do the tough thing and tell a legend it's time to go. If he's genuinely good at his job, fair enough. If it's because nobody's got the bollocks to sack him then lol

He just keeps threatening to headbutt anyone who sacks him. Absolute thug.

[The Artful Dodger]

There seems to be some actual legs in the Ancelotti rumour, meeting again this week. I can't see it still, but it would be quite a coup of Everton if they did. 

[RandoEFC+]

Cant get my head around how its Ancelotti coming to Everton and Arteta to Arsenal. Both clubs would surely be better served with the other? I know it's crazy for an Everton fan not to be buzzing over Ancelotti considering the absolute mediocrity that's infested the club for half a decade but I really do have mixed feelings about this.

[CaaC (John)+]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Cant get my head around how its Ancelotti coming to Everton and Arteta to Arsenal. Both clubs would surely be better served with the other? I know it's crazy for an Everton fan not to be buzzing over Ancelotti considering the absolute mediocrity that's infested the club for half a decade but I really do have mixed feelings about this.

Top bloke, you should be happy with his track record.

 Manager

Juventus

• UEFA Intertoto Cup: 1999

Milan

• Serie A: 2003–04
• Coppa Italia: 2002–03
• Supercoppa Italiana: 2004
• UEFA Champions League: 2002–03, 2006–07
• UEFA Super Cup: 2003, 2007
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2007

Chelsea

• Premier League: 2009–10
• FA Cup: 2009–10
• FA Community Shield: 2009

Paris Saint-Germain

• Ligue 1: 2012–13

Real Madrid

• Copa del Rey: 2013–14
• UEFA Champions League: 2013–14
• UEFA Super Cup: 2014
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2014

Bayern Munich

• Bundesliga: 2016–17
• DFL-Supercup: 2016, 2017

[The Artful Dodger]

Erm this seems to actually happening. Lot of issues to resolve but this is a coup for Everton. Whether happens, ancelotti is perhaps the classiest, most likeable manager I've seen in English football. Really hope it works out.