Sunday 16th September - Everton 1-3 West Ham

[Stan]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

So do you guys think that was only a yellow @Marc and @Stan ? Or are we just on another really poor WUM attempt?

No, not a wum attempt at all. Not just on about that incident anyway. I think it was a red for what its worth. 

But I've often seen (not restricted to this forum) where Everton fans will think any decision that goes against them is a conspiracy but if an Everton player did the same thing, they're lauded and it's all 'Everton aren't we?' Just sometimes doesn't make sense. 

Now I'll wait for someone to say I'm 'rattled'. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

Not a conspiracy, just total incompetence and inconsistency that has gone against us on this occasion.

Refs are just not that great, you’re not the only ones affected.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Refs are just not that great, you’re not the only ones affected.

Actually they get over 95% of decisions right which is pretty impressive 

[Stan]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

Actually they get over 95% of decisions right which is pretty impressive 

Where's that stat from cos that seems outrageously high. Or was it just plucked out the air? 

[RandoEFC+]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Refs are just not that great, you’re not the only ones affected.

Again, when did I say that? The lifetime ban comment was clearly a joke, nobody would be that retarded.

I'm mystified as to how me suggesting that a player kicking someone at neck height should have been a red is being equated to suggestions of an anti-Everton refereeing conspiracy but it's not the first time on here that we've had this.

[Marc]

5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

So do you guys think that was only a yellow @Marc and @Stan ? Or are we just on another really poor WUM attempt?

I think it was a red. I would say it would fall under 'serious foul play' and thus a red card.

To suggest the referees imply different the laws differently for Everton to everyone else is the bit that is absurd. Strange.

[6666]

Nothing against Everton but that loud mouthed, dirty chav conceding goals and being upset is a big positive.

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Again, when did I say that? The lifetime ban comment was clearly a joke, nobody would be that retarded.

I'm mystified as to how me suggesting that a player kicking someone at neck height should have been a red is being equated to suggestions of an anti-Everton refereeing conspiracy but it's not the first time on here that we've had this.

Like I said, it was more previous incidents not necessarily that one. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Where's that stat from cos that seems outrageously high. Or was it just plucked out the air? 

When the games have been reviewed it around 95% Refs make a lot of decisions throughout the game no one thinks about. Obviously there is some interpretation but it will be around that. As long as humans referee the games and can't review a decision mistakes will be made.

[6666]

Majority of the decisions being made during a game aren't big decisions or difficult decisions to make. How good referees are depends on how they deal with big decisions when they crop up.

[RandoEFC+]

3 minutes ago, Marc said:

I think it was a red. I would say it would fall under 'serious foul play' and thus a red card.

To suggest the referees imply different the laws differently for Everton to everyone else is the bit that is absurd. Strange.

Again, clearly a joke. I don't actually think that if Digne did what Masuaku did that Everton would be docked points and the player would get a lifetime ban, just so we are clear.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

Majority of the decisions being made during a game aren't big decisions or difficult decisions to make. How good referees are depends on how they deal with big decisions when they crop up.

A lot of decisions are harder than what people think. Everything happens so fast. Also the interpretation can be a lot harder than what some people think.  The standard of refereeing in England is actually quite high. People complain but when you say the refereeing is bad you have to have something to compare it to. You can't just say it is bad because of a mistake otherwise you would say everything is bad when mistakes are made

[Stan]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

A lot of decisions are harder than what people think. Everything happens so fast. Also the interpretation can be a lot harder than what some people think.  The standard of refereeing in England is actually quite high. People complain but when you say the refereeing is bad you have to have something to compare it to. You can't just say it is bad because of a mistake otherwise you would say everything is bad when mistakes are made

Standard isn't that high but it's the inconsistency that grates on me and everyone else. Inconsistency of individual refs that make decisions themselves from one match to another and inconsistency between refs. 

[RandoEFC+]

6 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

A lot of decisions are harder than what people think. Everything happens so fast. Also the interpretation can be a lot harder than what some people think.  The standard of refereeing in England is actually quite high. People complain but when you say the refereeing is bad you have to have something to compare it to. You can't just say it is bad because of a mistake otherwise you would say everything is bad when mistakes are made

Fair enough for offsides, handballs, collisions etc but when someone kicks another player at head height it's pretty hard to swallow the "it happened so fast" argument.

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

Standard isn't that high but it's the inconsistency that grates on me and everyone else. Inconsistency of individual refs that make decisions themselves from one match to another and inconsistency between refs. 

I'm pretty certain English referees are regarded very highly. You're gonna get that that's just football. What do you suggest we do?

[Guest]

Just now, RandoEFC said:

Fair enough for offsides, handballs, collisions etc but when someone kicks another player at head height it's pretty hard to swallow the "it happened so fast" argument.

Yeah of course.  You are always gonna get some really bad decisions. Personally I don't complain about the refs even when decisions go against us. I might at the time but not when i have calmed down. I just think its part of football and not fair to expect every decision to be right. 

[RandoEFC+]

To be fair, I think in most cases the lack of clarity over parts of the rules are a bigger part of the problem than the individual competence of referees.

[DeadLinesman]

55 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Jagielka puts in a one footed challenge three inches off the ground and wins the ball but accidentally catches a Wolves player on the follow through. Gets sent off.

Masuaku manages to stand on the neck of someone who is standing up themselves and gets nowhere near the ball. Gets a yellow.

I mean for fucks sake.

It’s the way he rakes the boot after the initial contact as well. The problem is referees never seem accountable for their continued dire performances. You’d have more sympathy if they were allowed to come out and either explain decisions or hold their hands up.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

To be fair, I think in most cases the lack of clarity over parts of the rules are a bigger part of the problem than the individual competence of referees.

I don't think there is a lack of clarity. It's just interpretation. Referees do actually admit they got decisions wrong. They  are reviewed constantly throughout  the season. For me footballers make to much out of it. When refs explain why a ref may make a certain decision or why a decision is right personally I have normally agreed. I think they undertsand the rules better and if a footballer and a ref disagree I think more often than not the ref will be right. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Never seen so much AIDS in all my life. Absolute wankers in the Everton end applauding the players off too, sickening.

What's wrong with that?

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

It’s the way he rakes the boot after the initial contact as well. The problem is referees never seem accountable for their continued dire performances. You’d have more sympathy if they were allowed to come out and either explain decisions or hold their hands up.

I agree with this. Or at least they're not held accountable in a big manner. They had a programme last summer I think where Anthony Taylor had his performance reviewed on a match with his superior and they scrutinised a lot of it, and got him to explain his decisions. But then there are much worse referees than him (the likes of Pawson, Jones, Moss) who consistently seem to be in the spotlight for their performance or standards. 

I definitely think they should be able to make their views aired. Maybe not even straight after like players or managers are but perhaps later on a few hours or the day after, once the heat of the moment has died down. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Stan said:

I agree with this. Or at least they're not held accountable in a big manner. They had a programme last summer I think where Anthony Taylor had his performance reviewed on a match with his superior and they scrutinised a lot of it, and got him to explain his decisions. But then there are much worse referees than him (the likes of Pawson, Jones, Moss) who consistently seem to be in the spotlight for their performance or standards. 

I definitely think they should be able to make their views aired. Maybe not even straight after like players or managers are but perhaps later on a few hours or the day after, once the heat of the moment has died down. 

Footballers don't have to come out and explain every mistake they make. 

[RandoEFC+]

The Masuaku incident has taken up a disproportionate amount of this thread because it didn't matter. I don't see how we'd have got a point there anyway against ten men.

We started out nervous which can happen and while I'm loathe to criticise matchgoing fans we need to do something about the atmosphere at Goodison. Today sounded like a West Ham home game (perhaps not a London Stadium one) from start to finish. After they scored we went from nervous to disorganised mess. I can't think of two words that better describe that performance. Pickford made one glaring error but when your back four don't really play that bad individually and you still concede three goals at home that's a fundamental problem that can't be fixed by plonking Yerry Mina in that defence.

Biggest let down was the midfield. Schneiderlin lost his father this week so he gets a bit of a pass but that performance from Gueye was his worst in an Everton shirt and he should have been hooked instead. Even if you take out their individual mistakes today, Gueye and Schneiderlin as a midfield two in this system isn't the answer. You can't sustain pressure on the opposition when you play a midfield two who can't pass the ball forward. Schneiderlin does okay as a pendulum who can receive the ball and move it sideways and Gueye brings good energy to the midfield but between them they don't offer enough to take up two spots on the team sheet.

For the umpteenth time today and the fourth different manager we've seen that shoe horning Calvert-Lewin in on the wing isn't the answer. By all means play him up top ahead of Tosun who is out of sorts, but we need two players on the wings that are capable of giving the opposition problems with the ball at their feet.

Disappointed with Silvas tactics at the start of the second half as well. We didn't need to go 4-4-2 straight away when we were only one goal down. All that achieved was more gaps in midfield eventually leading to their third goal.

Anyone who thought it would be an easy path from Koeman/Allardyce football to something even vaguely progressive will think differently after today, this is going to take at least one season of learning some hard lessons like this. No doubt that won't stop rabid idiots on social media calling for another managers head on occasion but we have to stick with it and continue to look for ways to improve.

[LFCMike]

One win from Wolves, Southampton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield and West Ham is a really poor return

[Dan+]

22 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I'm pretty certain English referees are regarded very highly. You're gonna get that that's just football. What do you suggest we do?

So much so that not a single one went to Russia.