Administrator Stan Posted November 4, 2018 Author Administrator Posted November 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, SirBalon said: What media bias are you citing exactly? Everyone that knows their football properly and doesn't just think it all started with the product that is the Premeir League (in its various guises) knows Liverpool are on a whole different stratosphere to Arsenal. Although that doesn't stop Arsenal Football Club from being one of England's big clubs, much bigger than your so called big clubs because sometimes it's as if every club is a big club here in England. far too many mentions of big/bigger club in that final sentence
SirBalon Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Stan said: far too many mentions of big/bigger club in that final sentence Yeah, I noticed that as I was writing it. I couldn't get away from that age-old situation so many football fans go on about when they cite clubs (with all due respects) like Aston Villa, Newcastle United, Tottenham Hotspur, Leeds United etc... as "big" clubs. I get what people mean and even in the case of Leeds Utd for example who won the European Cup (Champions League) there is a case to answer for because Arsenal for all of their national size (which is in actual fact, massive) hasn't managed that. We can debate that part and I will fall on the side of the fact we AREN'T a big club in that sense with all of its permutations as to how we then measure all of this. But here in England we know how big Arsenal is. Another whole different debate is this supposed bias Artful Dodger has mentioned... I have no idea what that's about unless he's talking about any particular journalist with a personal agenda.
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted November 4, 2018 Subscriber Posted November 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I get what people mean and even in the case of Leeds Utd for example who won the European Cup (Champions League) there is a case to answer Leeds never won the European Cup @SirBalon they were runners-up and in the UEFA Cup Winners Cup but they won the Inter-City Fairs Cup twice unless I read your post wrong? European competition European Cup/Champions League Runners Up (1): 1974–75 UEFA Cup Winners Cup Runners Up (1): 1972–73 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup Winners (2): 1967–68, 1970–71 Runners Up (1): 1966–67 Trophy Play-Off Runner Up: 1971–72 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United_F.C.#European_competition
The Artful Dodger Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 39 minutes ago, SirBalon said: What media bias are you citing exactly? Everyone that knows their football properly and doesn't just think it all started with the product that is the Premeir League (in its various guises) knows Liverpool are on a whole different stratosphere to Arsenal. Although that doesn't stop Arsenal Football Club from being one of England's big clubs, much bigger than your so called big clubs because sometimes it's as if every club is a big club here in England. Arsenal are a huge club in their own right, not doubting that. Someone was claiming that Liverpool are protected by the media, which I don't think is the case. Yes, there are a great many pundits who played for them who might be individually biased but the mainstream, right-wing press as a total is completely London-centric, it despises the fact that the two biggest clubs in this country are not from London and loathes Liverpool as a city and a club.
The Artful Dodger Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, CaaC - John said: Leeds never won the European Cup @SirBalon they were runners-up and in the UEFA Cup Winners Cup but they won the Inter-City Fairs Cup twice unless I read your post wrong? European competition European Cup/Champions League Runners Up (1): 1974–75 UEFA Cup Winners Cup Runners Up (1): 1972–73 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup Winners (2): 1967–68, 1970–71 Runners Up (1): 1966–67 Trophy Play-Off Runner Up: 1971–72 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_United_F.C.#European_competition I think he means Villa, who did win the European cup.
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted November 4, 2018 Subscriber Posted November 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: I think he means Villa, who did win the European cup. Aye, Roy Saunders was the manager but had a row with the Villa chairman and quit, Tony Barton took over and won them the European Cup and the European Super Cup, bloody hell, look at then now, the same as Forest in their glory years under Clough.
The Artful Dodger Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, CaaC - John said: Aye, Roy Saunders was the manager but had a row with the Villa chairman and quit, Tony Barton took over and won them the European Cup and the European Super Cup, bloody hell, look at then now, the same as Forest in their glory years under Clough. Villa could have been a real superpower if they were run properly, I think Doug Ellis took over shortly after they won the European Cup and proceeded to break up the squad and fritter away their opportunity to become a real giant.
SirBalon Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Yeah, I noticed that as I was writing it. I couldn't get away from that age-old situation so many football fans go on about when they cite clubs (with all due respects) like Aston Villa, Newcastle United, Tottenham Hotspur, Leeds United etc... as "big" clubs. I get what people mean and even in the case of Leeds Utd for example who won the European Cup (Champions League) there is a case to answer for because Arsenal for all of their national size (which is in actual fact, massive) hasn't managed that. We can debate that part and I will fall on the side of the fact we AREN'T a big club in that sense with all of its permutations as to how we then measure all of this. But here in England we know how big Arsenal is. Another whole different debate is this supposed bias Artful Dodger has mentioned... I have no idea what that's about unless he's talking about any particular journalist with a personal agenda. 15 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: I think he means Villa, who did win the European cup. Yeah, I meant Villa and forgot Notts Forest too.
SirBalon Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Arsenal are a huge club in their own right, not doubting that. Someone was claiming that Liverpool are protected by the media, which I don't think is the case. Yes, there are a great many pundits who played for them who might be individually biased but the mainstream, right-wing press as a total is completely London-centric, it despises the fact that the two biggest clubs in this country are not from London and loathes Liverpool as a city and a club. There's a London bias in all journalism but I don't sense the ignorant stance there used to be toward northern cities back in the day. This sentiment did used to exist when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s fuelled mainly by the ultra conservatism in the Thatcher years. We're going off topic here but remember that during Thatcher's hey day the opposition was off the scale crazy with Michael Foot as the Labour leader... There wasn't much of an alternative or a middle ground option which inadvertently rooted the safe London bet even more back then. But these days with the youth of today supporting clubs in an out of the bag way where local identity being a distant memory, well journalism isn't stupid and as far as I'm concerned I feel that they provide a balanced view on all English clubs. The problem with English sports journalism isn't even that in my personal opinion... The problem with English sports journalism is that on the main it's extremely poor and based on merely opinion which isn't professional at all.
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ Posted November 4, 2018 Subscriber Posted November 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Villa could have been a real superpower if they were run properly, I think Doug Ellis took over shortly after they won the European Cup and proceeded to break up the squad and fritter away their opportunity to become a real giant. He came in before they won the European Cup but I think Ellis was the one that ruined Aston Villa in the end, but that's my thinking and I am sure an Aston Villa fan could enlighten me more on that lol. "After much speculation, control of the club was bought by London financier Pat Matthews, who also brought in Doug Ellis as chairman. However, new ownership could not prevent Villa being relegated to the Third Division for the first time at the end of the 1969–70 season. However, Villa gradually began to recover under the management of former club captain Vic Crowe. In the 1971–72 season they returned to the Second Division as Champions with a record 70 points. In 1974, Ron Saunders was appointed the manager. His brand of no-nonsense man-management proved effective, with the club winning the League Cup the following season and, at the end of season 1974–75, he had taken them back into the First Division and into Europe." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Villa_F.C.
Subscriber RandoEFC+ Posted November 4, 2018 Subscriber Posted November 4, 2018 Watched the highlights on Match of the Day just now. From the looks of that it was Liverpool who could have deserved the win. Obviously I'm not on board with it but Milner really is one of those cracking players who remains key to his side no matter how much they step it up signing new players. Allisson on the other hand is still yet to convince me. At fault for Arsenals goal yesterday for me and usually seems to have one dodgy/risky moment in it per game when I watch Liverpool. Definitely an upgrade on Mignolet and Karius though no doubt. Glad to see Lacazette getting some recognition for Arsenal. Last season when they signed him, and United and Chelsea signed Lukaku and Morata there was a thread about which of the three would be the best signing on here and he had a better record than the other two for most of the season yet for some reason got written off by many whenever he didn't score for a few games. I think he's a very good striker personally, Arsenal clearly on the up and look a lot more organised at both ends of the field than they have in a few years, as much as I used to sympathise with Wenger in the last few seasons.
Honey Honey Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 34 minutes ago, Panna King said: We've got our Arsenal back! Because you've gone from 6th to 5th?
Panna King Posted November 4, 2018 Posted November 4, 2018 53 minutes ago, Harvsky said: Because you've gone from 6th to 5th? Yes
Dave Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 I think this should be looked as two points dropped for Liverpool rather than a point gained. Manchester City are going to these grounds like Wembley and The Emirates then walking away with three points. The harsh reality is that's the ridiculously high standard that Liverpool need to set for themselves.
LFCMadLad Posted November 5, 2018 Posted November 5, 2018 5 hours ago, The Palace Fan said: I think this should be looked as two points dropped for Liverpool rather than a point gained. Manchester City are going to these grounds like Wembley and The Emirates then walking away with three points. The harsh reality is that's the ridiculously high standard that Liverpool need to set for themselves. Totally agree. It's like we now have to win every game to keep in touch with City, they are that good.
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