Frenkie de Jong Joins FC Barcelona

[Cicero]

Truly a wonderful player. 

[Panna King]

2 hours ago, SirBalon said:

This is a Cruyff signing from heaven! If Johan was still with us he would've made sure this signing already executed was made. I can't wait to see him playing in blaugrana even if next season the shirt has cheques.

Not many of these players come along, he is a bit like Bergkamp but more deeper. The only thing de Jong needs to improve on his scoring more goals but apart from that he has everything, that type of player is so underrated and probably he had to do a lot with Ajax success.  The reasons why is that Ajax bossed the midfield in most of their games, de Jong can win the ball and rarely gives the ball away, he dictates the play as everything goes through him. 

[SirBalon]

41 minutes ago, Panna King said:

Not many of these players come along, he is a bit like Bergkamp but more deeper. The only thing de Jong needs to improve on his scoring more goals but apart from that he has everything, that type of player is so underrated and probably he had to do a lot with Ajax success.  The reasons why is that Ajax bossed the midfield in most of their games, de Jong can win the ball and rarely gives the ball away, he dictates the play and everything goes through him. 

He is seen as the natural successor to Busquets in the future and I get that to be honest.

[Panna King]

 

 

 

[SirBalon]

So today Frenkie de Jong will be offocially presented in ftont of the presss, media and fans at the Camp Nou. Another thing has occurred which as far as I'm concerned I haven't seen before which is that AFC Ajax have paid for a whole page spread on the Ajacied newspaper which does everything related to the club to wish de Jong well in his new adventure at FC Barcelona. @Panna King

[SirBalon]

De Jong and his agent tell of how negotiations broke with Barça

 

An enlightening interview on how negotiations are conducted between clubs and how footballlers have to compromise on their wishes.

Frenkie de Jong who yesterday came out onto the turf at the Camp Nou with 30,000 fans to be presented as Barcelona's latest signing later held an interview with pro-Ajax Dutch newspaper Voetbol International on how negotiations went for his final decision and on how at one point his prefe destination FC Barcelona looked doomed.

Both de Jong and his agent (Ali Dursun) reveal how the final moments on the vital decision came to pass...

"Had it not been for the President (Josep Maria Bartomeu) flying out to the Nethlerlands to talk to me, I wouldn't be here today at the Camp Nou living my dream."

"Let's make one thing clear, Barcelona had shown interest in me since I was in the infant academies at Ajax. That carried on throughout and I remember seeing both Johan (Cruyff) and Guardiola when I was a kid watching me. It was strange because Jordi (Cruyff's son) was always there with them, well most of the time. But the father/son relationship seemed to be with Johan and Pep on the sidelines. They would go to talk to my father and then I'd see Johan scratching his chin and whispering in Pep's ear which as a child would make me nervous."

"Everyone knows that FC Barcelona has a special meaning in the Netherlands. It's almost as if they're a Dutch club geographically situated in sunny Spain, the Ajax of Spain. For the Dutch boy that's obsessed with football, Barça is the ultimate goal but we always keep our feet on the ground because we have only one football career and decisions will be made as it's a cut-throat world."

"But I have been brought up to be honest and negotiations with Barcelona were very difficult. They don't offer you the best deal and base their interest on the fact you will be participating in pure football. You will be part of something you won't get anywhere else which is being a part of something bigger than the sport itself, the Ajax philosophy which is to be complete and you can only achieve this there and nowhere else unless you end up at Barça. Everything else for a Dutch footballer is a compromise, but one that we do without prejudices and commit 100%."

"The more my agent and myself spoke to Barcelona, the more I felt it was never going to happen. There had been no key moments and I almost felt like I could end up playing second division Spanish football for their 'B' team which had no relation to what I felt we had achieved at Ajax."

"In the end there seemed to be only two real options... Manchester City with Pep or PSG. With those two options my preference was Man City but PSG were offering me even more. They were telling me I would be the future focus of their plans and that everything would eventually be built around me. For a midfielder this is the ultimate one can be told and I must say that even though I had reservations about going there, it was enticing and I made this known to my agent. I had already decided that the Barça deal with that dream were best forgotten and I had to make a decision for the next step in my career as a professional footballer."

"It was close... I had talks with both Man City and PSG in the matter of three days with the PSG deal looking the most likely. The decision both my agent and myself was practically done when all of a sudden in a training session (with Ajax) my agent who was on the sidelines asked for permission to call me over. He told me the Barcelona President himself had just been on the phone with him and that he would be landing in Amsterdam that very afternoon to talk to me if I approved. My agent said it was upto me and it seemed my club had also been made aware as we would hold the meeting at the club training grounds where we were. My agent told me we had nothing to lose, that we'd made up our minds but that we should listen and that the decision would be mine."

"My agent told me that we'd give them 45 minutes and that's it. If the offer was good enough it would work in that amount of time. I have to say that I had made up my mind before the 45 minutes had ended and the crazy thing was that my personal terms hadn't been improved. To be honest the financial side of things wasn't a worry for me and even though other offers made Barça's seem dwarfed, I wanted to hear what they eventually told me and what they had failed on previously."

"When the Barcelona President and his people had left we spoke. Both my agent and myself looked at one another and we knew. But what now? We had as good as given our word to PSG and now I had the guarantee I craved for this move. My agent said to me that surely this was sufficient and that time would show that I deserved an even better financial package. Whenever I have personally spoken to other interested clubs I have always spoken football, that's what I had done with all of them. Manchester wasn't a place I wanted to reside, Paris was wonderful but there were other issues that didn't comply while the perfection where my sentiments were concerned had been very uncertain with Barcelona until that point. The Barcelona President told me that I was the future of that midfield and that a lot was expected of me. He guaranteed me that I would not be in the 'B' team at all and that I was part of the big change in the most vital part of the whole setup at Barça, the midfield. There was a plan and I was a big part of that plan. I felt like I was being welcomed like Johan was back in the 70s and this was all that I needed."

"In the end I was able to choose my dream with reassurances and I have to say that on my way home that evening I suddenly felt shivers down my spine because a few hours more without that phone call and my future would be very different now. I have to thank my agent for always looking out for me in all of this and leaving the decisions for me to make. Not once did he influence me other than to guide me to the best option for my footballing future."

[RandoEFC+]

On 05/07/2019 at 08:09, SirBalon said:

So today Frenkie de Jong will be offocially presented in ftont of the presss, media and fans at the Camp Nou. Another thing has occurred which as far as I'm concerned I haven't seen before which is that AFC Ajax have paid for a whole page spread on the Ajacied newspaper which does everything related to the club to wish de Jong well in his new adventure at FC Barcelona. @Panna King

I'm not a fan of this from Ajax. They need to be confused and angry that a player feels like any club is a step up from them. If they have any ambition to return to their former glories, and we've seen this year that they shouldn't see that as unattainable, they need to act like an elite club again.

[Cicero]

Yeah very small time. As if one of their products has ‘made it’, completely forgetting they are fucking Ajax football club. 

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

I'm not a fan of this from Ajax. They need to be confused and angry that a player feels like any club is a step up from them. If they have any ambition to return to their former glories, and we've seen this year that they shouldn't see that as unattainable, they need to act like an elite club again.

Couldn’t agree more. 

[Harry]

@RandoEFC @Cicero

Nobody likes the reality of this but can we really blame Ajax for embracing the status quo that realistically they cannot change?

Putting a positive spin on the departure is doing what's best for the player and ultimately that is good PR. It bodes well for other young players selecting them as a club preference because they know Ajax will support them getting a good next step and won't hold them back.

Short of a breakaway European super league being created Ajax can't hope to achieve financial parity with clubs like Barcelona so this end outcome is not going anywhere anytime soon. 

[RandoEFC+]

15 hours ago, Harry said:

@RandoEFC @Cicero

Nobody likes the reality of this but can we really blame Ajax for embracing the status quo that realistically they cannot change?

Putting a positive spin on the departure is doing what's best for the player and ultimately that is good PR. It bodes well for other young players selecting them as a club preference because they know Ajax will support them getting a good next step and won't hold them back.

Short of a breakaway European super league being created Ajax can't hope to achieve financial parity with clubs like Barcelona so this end outcome is not going anywhere anytime soon. 

This is a ridiculous stance. Why doesn't everybody just accept the status quo then? It would save us a lot of time, they can hand out league positions based on bank balance and all of the players and fans can just retire.

Ajax were seconds away from the Champions League final two months ago. This isnt Oldham Athletic we're talking about who have just seen their youth product make it big for the first time in 100 years, it's Ajax.

[SirBalon]

Unfortunately unless something really big changes in football then this is the way it’s going to be for a long time and possibly forever unless football implodes and reverts us back to the more balanced state it once was.

I was consistently accused of boring people to death with my constant posts on how football is fucked and how clubs like Ajax, Anderlecht, Marseille, Red Star Belgrade, Steaua Bucharest, Hamburg, PSV, Feyenoord etc... (I could obviously go on) will never be able to nurture a golden generation again.

Even now with that I find myself being repetitive and it’s been a while since I’ve posted that sort of stuff. Infact I’ve kept away from that current ongoing thread on “Is football fucked” because of this and because I will just be a nuisance which I am self aware of.

What clubs like Ajax or Steaua Bucharest (to name two for the sake of argument) now seem to do is to do their best to nurture the future of their respective national teams. This is the reason behind why for example Ajax want to send as many players they are inevitably going to lose to clubs like Barcelona (again an example) so as that they can keep as similar a form of evolution in their careers as possible. It may sound ridiculous but it only seems that way if one doesn’t accept what football has become.

Who’s gonna offer a young seeming future star the next level and the crux of the issue, the salary they can earn elsewhere?

Are we purposefully playing innocent here or is it because the newspaper spread was directed at the repulsive Barça and their undercover evil ways?

Everyone here knows my more than generous sympathies directed towards FC Barcelona but believe me, I would rather return to what was than what is.

[RandoEFC+]

@SirBalon it isn't anything to do with the state of football or Barcelona's actions. It's to do with Ajax acting like a tin pot club by celebrating a young player moving to Barcelona as if making the first team at Ajax isn't really making it. It's one thing for nobodies on the internet to accept that this is just the way football works but for a multiple-time European champion who were within a whisker of another European final a matter of weeks ago to be acting this way about their own club is nothing short of bizarre.

Put it this way, if Tom Davies developed into a world class midfield player over the next couple of seasons and moved to Real Madrid for big money, I'd be absolutely fucking fuming if anyone associated with Everton Football Club pulled any shit like hiring out part of a newspaper in tribute to a player who has left the club.

Realistically, you have to swallow it and move on at the time but have some pride and don't waste time paying tribute to former players when you should be working to reinvest the money in the best way possible to move the club forward and make sure that next time you have a world class player come through the youth team they don't need to move elsewhere to win trophies and feel like they've truly made it.

It really isn't hard to understand. There's no point supporting a football club if you can't hope for better things in future.

[SirBalon]

11 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

@SirBalon it isn't anything to do with the state of football or Barcelona's actions. It's to do with Ajax acting like a tin pot club by celebrating a young player moving to Barcelona as if making the first team at Ajax isn't really making it. It's one thing for nobodies on the internet to accept that this is just the way football works but for a multiple-time European champion who were within a whisker of another European final a matter of weeks ago to be acting this way about their own club is nothing short of bizarre.

Put it this way, if Tom Davies developed into a world class midfield player over the next couple of seasons and moved to Real Madrid for big money, I'd be absolutely fucking fuming if anyone associated with Everton Football Club pulled any shit like hiring out part of a newspaper in tribute to a player who has left the club.

Realistically, you have to swallow it and move on at the time but have some pride and don't waste time paying tribute to former players when you should be working to reinvest the money in the best way possible to move the club forward and make sure that next time you have a world class player come through the youth team they don't need to move elsewhere to win trophies and feel like they've truly made it.

It really isn't hard to understand. There's no point supporting a football club if you can't hope for better things in future.

Of course you'd be fuming if Tom Davies moved to an "elite club" if he turned into a World Class player. But as you said... We're nobodies and your sentiments as much as mine don't seem to matter because as you well put it, we're nobodies.

You seem to fail to understand or refuse to understand that clubs like Ajax and co can't offer the personal terms other clubs can in Europe (as I said in my previous post but you ignored the facts... A symptom of today's UK as it's all based on feelings and beliefs these days).

You've now confirmed how you feel, I've done likewise, now do you want to talk the facts of the day and forget if you have the capacity to fume?

[SirBalon]

32 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

People really don't understand the historic connection between Ajax and Barcelona do they? 

Honestly mate, don't bother, it'll end up going the wrong way with it being Barcelona taking the piss out of Ajax without actually knowing the history of why Barcelona owe themselves to that club.

[RandoEFC+]

39 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Of course you'd be fuming if Tom Davies moved to an "elite club" if he turned into a World Class player. But as you said... We're nobodies and your sentiments as much as mine don't seem to matter because as you well put it, we're nobodies.

You seem to fail to understand or refuse to understand that clubs like Ajax and co can't offer the personal terms other clubs can in Europe (as I said in my previous post but you ignored the facts... A symptom of today's UK as it's all based on feelings and beliefs these days).

You've now confirmed how you feel, I've done likewise, now do you want to talk the facts of the day and forget if you have the capacity to fume?

What facts have I disputed? Barcelona can clearly offer better terms and a better prospect of long term success at the top end of the game but it doesn't mean Ajax have to make such a public statement that they're happy with being a feeder club.

Your initial response to my point was:

On 07/07/2019 at 17:35, SirBalon said:

Couldn’t agree more. 

So I don't really understand why you suddenly think I'm being ruled by my emotions and ignoring facts?

34 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

People really don't understand the historic connection between Ajax and Barcelona do they? 

Doesn't matter. I'm beginning to reach the point where I'm speechless that I'm having to justify my position to three different people now that a club the size of Ajax shouldn't be as happy with losing a key player to a major European rival as to hire at pages in a newspaper to wish him good luck. You guys can all spin it how you want, it's not an appropriate way for a European giant to act.

Now that I've replied to this 3-4 times I'm sure that'll probably mean I'm rattled or something but in reality it's just taking this much effort to explain a relatively simple point that I was making in the first place.

[SirBalon]

6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

What facts have I disputed? Barcelona can clearly offer better terms and a better prospect of long term success at the top end of the game but it doesn't mean Ajax have to make such a public statement that they're happy with being a feeder club.

Your initial response to my point was:

So I don't really understand why you suddenly think I'm being ruled by my emotions and ignoring facts?

Doesn't matter. I'm beginning to reach the point where I'm speechless that I'm having to justify my position to three different people now that a club the size of Ajax shouldn't be as happy with losing a key player to a major European rival as to hire at pages in a newspaper to wish him good luck. You guys can all spin it how you want, it's not an appropriate way for a European giant to act.

Now that I've replied to this 3-4 times I'm sure that'll probably mean I'm rattled or something but in reality it's just taking this much effort to explain a relatively simple point that I was making in the first place.

Because Ajax can't maintain that in today's football. Call it coming to a realisation of what is... It's honest even though I wouldn't want my club displaying that type of public sentiment.

But it was then the actual transfer you later referred to by assimilating Tom Davies to Real Madrid and you being pissed off. You didn't meantion a public announcement by Everton and just the hypothetical "fact" that he'd been sold to them.

Oddly I agree with your sentiments because I'm looking at it from a general perspective of where football has ended up but not on a personal club sentiment or even a strange relationship (for many) two other clubs seem to have.

[RandoEFC+]

9 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Because Ajax can't maintain that in today's football. Call it coming to a realisation of what is... It's honest even though I wouldn't want my club displaying that type of public sentiment.

But it was then the actual transfer you later referred to by assimilating Tom Davies to Real Madrid and you being pissed off. You didn't meantion a public announcement by Everton and just the hypothetical "fact" that he'd been sold to them.

Oddly I agree with your sentiments because I'm looking at it from a general perspective of where football has ended up but not on a personal club sentiment or even a strange relationship (for many) two other clubs seem to have.

Ajax got further in the Champions League than Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Manchester City, Manchester United and PSG this season just gone. It's hardly "throw in the towel" territory is it? Like I said if it actually was a tin pot club like some second tier Dutch side who produced a player worthy of Barcelona's attention then I'd understand it more but it's Ajax, a massive club and while they aren't what they were, it's not like they're irrelevant.

If we lost our best player to a bigger club I'd be upset but I'd get over it, like when we lost Rooney, Arteta, Lukaku. The reality is that's the position the club is in at the time. It's irrational to get angry about that because you already knew the day before that's the position you're in. By all means, release a statement announcing the player's departure and wish them the best going forward but I just read this move from Ajax, which is small in the grand scheme of things but it doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on it, as too accepting of their inferiority to the modern day big bucks giants of European football when after the season they've had I would expect the company line to be one of defiance and trying to tell the world that Ajax are back.

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

Ajax got further in the Champions League than Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Manchester City, Manchester United and PSG this season just gone. It's hardly "throw in the towel" territory is it? Like I said if it actually was a tin pot club like some second tier Dutch side who produced a player worthy of Barcelona's attention then I'd understand it more but it's Ajax, a massive club and while they aren't what they were, it's not like they're irrelevant.

If we lost our best player to a bigger club I'd be upset but I'd get over it, like when we lost Rooney, Arteta, Lukaku. The reality is that's the position the club is in at the time. It's irrational to get angry about that because you already knew the day before that's the position you're in. By all means, release a statement announcing the player's departure and wish them the best going forward but I just read this move from Ajax, which is small in the grand scheme of things but it doesn't mean we can't have an opinion on it, as too accepting of their inferiority to the modern day big bucks giants of European football when after the season they've had I would expect the company line to be one of defiance and trying to tell the world that Ajax are back.

You see, this is different and back to your original post which I personally agreed with.

Again, I agree for what it's worth.

I think that this sale aswell as others that may have been made have hit a sentimental moment in history with the departure (in body) of Johan Cruyff and how both clubs have been working together with all sorts of stuff over the past year or so. Add to that their relationship with all of the above and I reckon this is why the page spread was published in the way it was. I also find it odd how Ajax in all of this de Ligt transfer saga have been publicly trying to push him to Barça even in today's latest statement they push it in that direction although they don't name Barcelona. That for me is weirder than the spread.  

[Panna King]

I really think people are misreading the situation, they have to understand that Ajax have been left behind for about 15 years due to the money of the other clubs similar sized or even smaller are receiving from their own competitions, player sale fees and TV money.   Ajax over the last 10 years have been receiving only 10 million a year from their TV deals and small transfer fees for players compared to other teams.   The thing that has changed now is that the whole reconstruction of the club,  to make it powerful again, this can only be done by making stars from the youth to sell them for money like a factory that is able to deliver the highest quality goods.  Now Ajax have a lot of money with no debts they are able to keep the players more recently through the education process.   

 

This is not something that they have just been able to do, it is the history of the club, dating back to the 60s when they produced 95% of their own team, they were able to dominate Europe, in the  70's due to the coaching and the structure which was in place by Michels.  All those players were sold and joined a better standard league, Ajax again struggled because of the transfer fees that were paid were not enough to bring in experience and the club changed its structure when Michels left the club.  In the 90s it happened  when Cruyff put a structure in place at Ajax in the late 80s, they were able to produce the talents that were able to bring success to the club also through the coaching of Cruyff and then Van Gaal.  That squad all broke up and due to the Bosman ruling and the start of the agents in the football world, Ajax lost millions when players left for free.   Since then Ajax really failed to produce anything apart from the odd star player themselves or foreign young players they were able to scout from countries like Belgium, Denmark and Sweden, Ajax did make a lot of money from those but again they were not able to compete with the bigger clubs.   

Then recently in the last final years of Johan Cruyff's life he came back to reconstruct the club again but this time it was a final one,  like a gift from the gods.  Ajax have put together is unbelievable, the recent set up of the whole club from the youth ages from 8 all the way up through the first team and board level is a system that is not at any club.  The recent sell of Sanchez to Tottenham really has set them up as they were able to invest that money heavily in the club and the focus is now 100% based on producing players. 

What people do not understand is that Ajax have now sold a player for 86 million, this has nothing to do with Ajax being a small club mentality it is a celebration of the Future, that is what the labelled the Article and advertising for the de Jong sale "Enjoy the future like we do"  It is a rebirth of a great club, that now is set up to compete now and to produce players.  They are able to achieve transfer fees of the same amount of the big clubs with no huge overheads. The youth of Ajax coming through is seen at a different level to the past that it has ever been seen before down the youth levels due to the reinvestment in the youth and the whole set up of the club, they have found the perfect formula, with youth and the right blend of experience. 

So this means that Ajax will of course lose players but when they did this in the past they also lost the structure, now the club know they can now produce players that will bring success and then be sold for huge transfer fees.  It also gives Ajax money to buy even better experienced players like with their recent signing Promes, they have never been a position to do this before. 

"This is the Future of Ajax"

 

@SirBalon

[Panna King]

2 hours ago, SirBalon said:

You see, this is different and back to your original post which I personally agreed with.

Again, I agree for what it's worth.

I think that this sale aswell as others that may have been made have hit a sentimental moment in history with the departure (in body) of Johan Cruyff and how both clubs have been working together with all sorts of stuff over the past year or so. Add to that their relationship with all of the above and I reckon this is why the page spread was published in the way it was. I also find it odd how Ajax in all of this de Ligt transfer saga have been publicly trying to push him to Barça even in today's latest statement they push it in that direction although they don't name Barcelona. That for me is weirder than the spread.  

Van der Sar explained this, Ajax want to produce the best players and when they do leave, they want the players to follow the same education as Ajax. Going to Italy is nothing at all like Ajax.

[Panna King]

Ajax want to create a certain brand and their brand will be the footballers they produce. 

[SirBalon]

8 minutes ago, Panna King said:

Van der Sar explained this, Ajax want to produce the best players and when they do leave, they want the players to follow the same education as Ajax. Going to Italy is nothing at all like Ajax.

The problem Ajax have is that cancer representing players like de Ligt in the shape of Mino Raiola. The club can’t even advise the player because of the hell that gets kicked up with that guy.

I can take you back two summers ago where Barça were more than interested in Marco Verratti of PSG. Absolutely everyone in Italy, the biggest names were going public by giving their opinion on how that movie would be in the best interests for the player’s career and the national team which they all care about so much in Italy.

Even Carlo Ancelotti who had not so long ago departed from the eternal rival advised Veratti to make that move but also said in an interview that he was fully aware that his representative would do his  utmost to raise the stakes at PSG to get a more lucrative contract and also his own piece of the pie which he knew he wouldn’t be offered at Barcelona.

It os infact the moment Raiola is habilitated once again by FIFA and UEFA pending further investigations that Barcelona take themselves out of the running for the signature.

What I’m getting at is that rogue unethical agents like Raiola are a decent part of what undermined the strictures at Ajax and other Dutch clubs. 

[El Profesor]

As a brazilian football club, who´s used to see our best players reaching their peak in european football, I find what Ajax totally normal and understandable, I´d even say it´s very nice and classy. 

The concentration of money and talent in football is irreversible. 

 

[Spike]

I always thought of Ajax as the pinnacle of footballing academies. Even when the players are mediocre they are sold for a huge profits. Off the top of my head I can name so many players that Ajax have trained since the turn of the millenium.

Wesley Sneijder
Rafael van der Vaart
Gregory van der Wiel
Siem de Jong
John Heitinga
Daley Blind
Frenkie de Jong
Mathjis de Ligt
Christian Eriksen
Davy Klaasen
Justin Kluivert
Donny van de Beek
Joel Veltman
Jasper Cillesen
Jan Vertonghen
Toby Alderweireld
Thomas Vermaelen
Nigel de Jong

Over 19 years that is a pretty good resume.