AFC World Cup Qualifiers

[Azeem]

Winners: Syria, Australia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Japan, UAE, South Korea

Best runner-ups: China, Iraq, Oman, Vietnam, Lebanon

Nice to see new faces Vietnam, Lebanon, Oman in the final round.

[Azeem]

Final round draw on 1 July

1 Japan, Iran

2 South Korea, Australia 

3 Saudi Arabia, Iraq

4 UAE, China

5 Syria, Oman

6 Vietnam, Lebanon 

What I'd like to see

Iran, Australia, Saudi Arabia, China, Oman, Lebanon

Japan, Korea, Iraq, UAE, Syria, Vietnam

[Dr. Gonzo]

I just hope as many Middle Eastern teams end up going to the world cup as possible... except the Saudis, I hope they stay home.

[Eco]

Would love to see any of Iran, Iraq, KSA, Syria, or UAE in the world cup.

[Azeem]

Iraq are always there but never make it expect it to be the same.

Iran and UAE have improved massively after lagging in the beginning. Saudi Arabia under Herve Renard look good. Would love to see a Iran-Saudi match-up just for the politics of it. 

Vietnam, Oman will probably not qualify but they'll make the groups interesting. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Apparently Skocic's contract was only through the second round - so they'll be holding meetings next week at the IFF to decide whether or not his contract will be renewed.

Unless Carlos Queiroz is coming back... I think it's a no brainer decision to keep him on. I do question some of his tactics/team selections - but he's also got 7 wins in 7 games as Iran manager... it would be very harsh to sack him after that. Particularly when he's undone a lot of the shit job that the clown who came before him did.

Hope we get some good news regarding the manager situation/Skocic... rather than some disappointing news like binning him for someone not up to the task. The FA are incompetent as fuck, but the IFF are truly the most inept footballing federation I've ever seen.

[Michael]

4 hours ago, Eco said:

Would love to see any of Iran, Iraq, KSA, Syria, or UAE in the world cup.

That's fair enough, but with all due respect, Syria are not on the same level as the other teams you listed. I don't think that they have ever been as good as the other teams you listed. Although it would have been nice to see Dahoud represent Syria, instead of opting for Germany, a national side where he will never get regular football.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, Michael said:

That's fair enough, but with all due respect, Syria are not on the same level as the other teams you listed. I don't think that they have ever been as good as the other teams you listed. Although it would have been nice to see Dahoud represent Syria, instead of opting for Germany, a national side where he will never get regular football.

Syria had the 2nd best record out of Asian teams in round 2. This is probably the best shot they've ever had at making a World Cup.

*edit* actually they had the 4th best record, I didn't realise they'd lost a game. Either way, it's a pretty big performance for them in the second round.

[Michael]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Syria had the 2nd best record out of Asian teams in round 2. This is probably the best shot they've ever had at making a World Cup.

Yeah, sure, but just look at their group, two tiny island nations the Maldives and Guam(with all due respect, my Sunday league side would probably give them a run for their money). Then there is the Philippines, no record of doing well even at Asian level. As for China, they have always underwhelmed, again even at Asian level. China actually got the better of Syria if you count their head to head matches, where Syria beat China 2-1 in their first match, while China defeated Syria 3-1 in the 2nd match. You can only beat the teams you are drawn against, but I think Syria were given an easy group, with the exception of China(although they are not great either). 

[Michael]

It's a shame Uzbekistan didn't make it to the next round despite finishing 2nd in their group. They have played very well at Asian level in the past and on their day can beat most teams on the continent. It's also a shame Kuwait didn't go through, even though they also finished 2nd in their respective group. I am sure Qatar will do a great job hosting the World Cup, but if they are still nationalizing loads of players to represent them, then I am not a fan of that. I know they have a tiny local population, but it's better to lose games with 11 local players, than to win with a side that is full of nationalized players.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, Michael said:

Yeah, sure, but just look at their group, two tiny island nations the Maldives and Guam(with all due respect, my Sunday league side would probably give them a run for their money). Then there is the Philippines, no record of doing well even at Asian level. As for China, they have always underwhelmed, again even at Asian level. China actually got the better of Syria if you count their head to head matches, where Syria beat China 2-1 in their first match, while China defeated Syria 3-1 in the 2nd match. You can only beat the teams you are drawn against, but I think Syria were given an easy group, with the exception of China(although they are not great either). 

Tbf you could say the same about most groups in round 2.

Out of their group, I'd have expected them and China to be in first or second. Group B is probably the group that had the most overall quality - with Australia, Jordan and Kuwait... but the other two teams in the group (Taiwan & Nepal) are whipping boys - I'm fairly confident Nepal only got two wins because they had to play Taiwan twice . With Group C, I'd have expected us and Iraq to go through - even though Bahrain is something of our bogey team... I had my doubts after the last manager did his best to demonstrate he didn't understand anything about Iranian football... but we ended up topping the group. With Group D, you can't really look passed Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan tbh - easy group for them tbh. Japan and South Korea had two laughably easy groups as well (South Korea may have had more of a challenge had North Korea stayed in) and on paper those are two of the strongest sides in Asia.

It's sort of just the nature of Asian qualification. You've only got so many teams competing that have football pedigree and many of these countries are desperately playing catch-up with the rest of the world in terms of having the right sort of footballing infrastructure to compete long term. Round 2's always going to be made up of groups where there's 1 or 2 teams that you just think "yeah, they'll probably do well in that group" and a lot of teams that are just there to make up the numbers.

We'll really see what this Syria side are made of in round 3. But that's true of every country that's made it that far - because up until this point of qualification it's mostly been those countries beating up on countries that are extremely unlikely to actually put up much of a fight.

[Michael]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Tbf you could say the same about most groups in round 2.

Out of their group, I'd have expected them and China to be in first or second. Group B is probably the group that had the most overall quality - with Australia, Jordan and Kuwait... but the other two teams in the group (Taiwan & Nepal) are whipping boys - I'm fairly confident Nepal only got two wins because they had to play Taiwan twice . With Group C, I'd have expected us and Iraq to go through - even though Bahrain is something of our bogey team... I had my doubts after the last manager did his best to demonstrate he didn't understand anything about Iranian football... but we ended up topping the group. With Group D, you can't really look passed Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan tbh - easy group for them tbh. Japan and South Korea had two laughably easy groups as well (South Korea may have had more of a challenge had North Korea stayed in) and on paper those are two of the strongest sides in Asia.

It's sort of just the nature of Asian qualification. You've only got so many teams competing that have football pedigree and many of these countries are desperately playing catch-up with the rest of the world in terms of having the right sort of footballing infrastructure to compete long term. Round 2's always going to be made up of groups where there's 1 or 2 teams that you just think "yeah, they'll probably do well in that group" and a lot of teams that are just there to make up the numbers.

We'll really see what this Syria side are made of in round 3. But that's true of every country that's made it that far - because up until this point of qualification it's mostly been those countries beating up on countries that are extremely unlikely to actually put up much of a fight.

Yeah, but aren't Lebanon pretty good at Asian level? I remember not so long ago they were beating some of the better sides in the continent. While Palestine are also one of the most improved teams in Asia. I'd say that both are tough sides at Asian level. It's true what you say though, there is a big gap between the good sides and the weak sides in Asia, but I'd place Lebanon and Palestine just behind the better sides. Either way, the next round will be more competitive.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Michael said:

Yeah, but aren't Lebanon pretty good at Asian level? I remember not so long ago they were beating some of the better sides in the continent. While Palestine are also one of the most improved teams in Asia. I'd say that both are tough sides at Asian level. It's true what you say though, there is a big gap between the good sides and the weak sides in Asia, but I'd place Lebanon and Palestine just behind the better sides. Either way, the next round will be more competitive.

I'd say Lebanon are mid-tier, personally, so I think where you've grouped them and Palestine would probably be accurate. Lebanon's a bit of a weird side, to quote Gattuso they're "sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit!" - I do think part of the reason they managed to get through to round 3 is purely because of North Korea pulling out of the tournament. North Korea are weirdly decent at football - they've actually not participated (either in qualification or by withdrawing from the tournament) more times in the Asian Cup than failed to qualify.

[nudge+]

I'm happy for Vietnam, first time they qualify for the final qualifications round, only one loss while playing decent football as well. A historic achievement. 

[Azeem]

4 hours ago, Michael said:

It's a shame Uzbekistan didn't make it to the next round despite finishing 2nd in their group. They have played very well at Asian level in the past and on their day can beat most teams on the continent. 

They are the Tottenham of Asian football. 

[Eco]

14 hours ago, Michael said:

That's fair enough, but with all due respect, Syria are not on the same level as the other teams you listed. I don't think that they have ever been as good as the other teams you listed. Although it would have been nice to see Dahoud represent Syria, instead of opting for Germany, a national side where he will never get regular football.

But my choices were based on hope, not my expectations.

[Dr. Gonzo]

17 hours ago, nudge said:

I'm happy for Vietnam, first time they qualify for the final qualifications round, only one loss while playing decent football as well. A historic achievement. 

I liked watching Vietnam play in that match against Thailand - it was a really entertaining match compared to a lot of other international matches I've seen in my life. I would not mind this Vietnam side qualifying for the World Cup at all. I think they'd be a breath of fresh air at a World Cup - at least if they take the same kind of approach that I saw.

[nudge+]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I liked watching Vietnam play in that match against Thailand - it was a really entertaining match compared to a lot of other international matches I've seen in my life. I would not mind this Vietnam side qualifying for the World Cup at all. I think they'd be a breath of fresh air at a World Cup - at least if they take the same kind of approach that I saw.

I think they aren't quite there yet, but the progress they made in the few recent years really is delightful. After Park Hang-seo took charge of the U23 a few years ago, he completely transformed it - not only in terms of tactics, but mentality as well. Vietnam had quite a few decent young attack-minded players before that alreasy, but were too undisciplined and shaky at the back, and Park managed to find the balance between playing attacking football and still being solid defensively, and flexibly uses both depending on the opposition. I think one of the most clever things that the Vietnamese FA did was promoting him and thus putting him in charge for both the senior and the junior national team; this way there's now a shared philosophy and plenty of continuity to get the best out of the young talented players who also spend a lot of time playing together under the same manager, so there's a lot of cohesion. In addition, Vietnamese football in general, including the domestic league, cleaned up their image that was ridden by corruption and mismanagement, started improving the infrastructure and invested heavily into youth academies a few years ago, and I think they are now reaping the benefits. 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

15 minutes ago, nudge said:

I think they aren't quite there yet, but the progress they made in the few recent years really is delightful. After Park Hang-seo took charge of the U23 a few years ago, he completely transformed it - not only in terms of tactics, but mentality as well. Vietnam had quite a few decent young attack-minded players before that alreasy, but were too undisciplined and shaky at the back, and Park managed to find the balance between playing attacking football and still being solid defensively, and flexibly uses both depending on the opposition. I think one of the most clever things that the Vietnamese FA did was promoting him and thus putting him in charge for both the senior and the junior national team; this way there's now a shared philosophy and plenty of continuity to get the best out of the young talented players who also spend a lot of time playing together under the same manager, so there's a lot of cohesion. In addition, Vietnamese football in general, including the domestic league, cleaned up their image that was ridden by corruption and mismanagement, started improving the infrastructure and invested heavily into youth academies a few years ago, and I think they are now reaping the benefits. 

 

That last bit, about the football being riddled with corruption and mismanagement in Vietnam... tbh, I think that rings true of a lot of Asian nations and their football sides. It's certainly true of Iran... and they're one of the stronger Asian sides. But a lot of these countries have serious issues with corruption/mismanagement throughout their politics - and football development is not as big of a priority generally in the grand scheme of things. I don't think it's any coincidence that the strongest Asian sides, imo, are countries that are generally a lot more stable and better off than the others - like Japan and South Korea.

But yeah, that is smart though putting him in charge of the senior and junior national teams and having a shared philosophy and continuity will do wonders for developing their national team... and probably their domestic league generally. That's really what Vietnam and honestly a whole lot of other Asian countries sort of need in terms of football and building up the quality a bit.

[Azeem]

VAR will be used in the final round. It will also likely be centralised hosted in single countries. This time host selection will be serious and heated. 

[Azeem]

4 minutes ago, McAzeem said:

VAR will be used in the final round. It will also likely be centralised hosted in single countries. This time host selection will be serious and heated. 

I think they might do as in the ACL one group hosted in East Asia & one in West Asia.

[Dr. Gonzo]

6 minutes ago, McAzeem said:

I think they might do as in the ACL one group hosted in East Asia & one in West Asia.

That makes the most sense to me.

I know there was a bit of controversy about Bahrain being selected as a host for Group C in round 2 - but I suspect it will be pretty contentious, the process of picking who gets to host.

[Azeem]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That makes the most sense to me.

I know there was a bit of controversy about Bahrain being selected as a host for Group C in round 2 - but I suspect it will be pretty contentious, the process of picking who gets to host.

It will be between UAE and Saudi Arabia to host I think, if they can't decide between the two it will be Qatar

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, McAzeem said:

It will be between UAE and Saudi Arabia to host I think, if they can't decide between the two it will be Qatar

I assume because there's VAR it'd be either in the UAE or Qatar.

Tbh, I'm not thrilled about the inclusion of VAR in round 3. I don't really trust it at all, but I think I probably trust the AFC even less to not be a bunch of dodgy cunts than I trust UEFA and FIFA... and I have barely any faith in UEFA or FIFA not being dodgy cunts.

[Azeem]

On 16/06/2021 at 02:08, McAzeem said:

3 Saudi Arabia, Iraq

4 UAE, China

UAE are in Pot 3 in place of Iraq as per the new rankings