Lionel Messi

[bozziovai]

1 hour ago, The Rebel CRS said:

Being Argentine doesn't help either as every talented player they have is expected to replicate what Diego Maradona did in 1986 and this isn't healthy as it means that Messi can't enjoy his football in the way he does at Barcelona. The extra added pressure of having to carry a nation doesn't help matters. Maradona wouldn't have done what he did in 86 if he had the pressure that Messi does today, I can tell you that. Players need to be allowed to enjoy their football and play their natural game. I've genuinely never seen so much pressure on a single player to deliver a World Cup, which you can't do on your own and this will always be the main downfall of Argentina winning anything. Then again, I'm not of the opinion that Messi has even played badly for Argentina either way, as he has been key in getting Argentina to all the finals they have reached and the qualifiers they have gotten out of.

As for where I said Ronaldo's level of greatness is forced up there, that isn't to say I don't regard him as one of the greatest to have played the sport in his own right as he's a machine who has been at the top of his game for a decade, but I believe he gets away with criticism a lot more than Messi does.

 

messi can handle the pressure, he has proven this time and time again.    but his team mates cannot .....

[Stan]

I'm confused @Teso dos Bichos - do you love Messi now instead of Ronaldo?

[Cicero]

Teso has lost it lads 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

When @Teso dos Bichos lights that doobie, the world benefits.

it certainly is a better kind of @Teso dos Bichos, put it that way.

[Carnivore Chris]

To be fair, if the Ballon d'or was actually for the best individual footballer of the year(like it used to be) then Messi would have about 7 now. That wouldn't be good for marketing though and the whole Messi/Ronaldo fanboy rubbish, which sells.

It's all nonsensical really.

[The Artful Dodger]

Messi's bar is set so high that even a slight dip can seem disappointing. His World Cup was not great, even if he could do little to stop Argentina going out he seemed to let the pressure engulf him, particularly against Croatia. A bit of a freak occurrence also ended his Champions League early. I think Modric would deserve the Balon D'or this year.

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Messi's bar is set so high that even a slight dip can seem disappointing. His World Cup was not great, even if he could do little to stop Argentina going out he seemed to let the pressure engulf him, particularly against Croatia. A bit of a freak occurrence also ended his Champions League early. I think Modric would deserve the Balon D'or this year.

But he had an amazing domestic season and ended up Pichichi (top scorer in Spain) last season.  Plus Barça’s Champions League campaign ended prematurely but it was still respectable and he had some stellar performances. 

[Cicero]

Modric for me as well. World cup has to be taken into consideration along with his influence to Real. Their most important player imo. 

[SirBalon]

16 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Modric for me as well. World cup has to be taken into consideration along with his influence to Real. Their most important player imo. 

So you're taking the World Cup and the Champions League into the reckoning while ignoring La Liga and the Copa del Rey?

In fairness he was indeed instrumental for both those tournaments (World Cup and Champions League) more so than Cristinao Ronaldo for the Champions League and Real Madrid. But for Crotaia it was definitely a team issue. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Being pivotal to success in two teams is more deserving. 

[SirBalon]

I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate here because Messi was more than just instrumental in Argentina even qualifying for the World Cup (that counts) and anything they done in the tournament (very little) he was a big part to it although not at his best.  For me Modrić wasn't the all and everything of Croatia... Rakitić had a marvellous World Cup.

[The Artful Dodger]

Messi scored a hattrick against a hungover ecuador team... Then disappeared in the world cup. I love Messi,, think he is the greatest player of all time but he doesnt deserve the award this year. 

[SirBalon]

Just now, The Artful Dodger said:

Messi scored a hattrick against a hungover ecuador team... Then disappeared in the world cup. I love Messi,, think he is the greatest player of all time but he doesnt deserve the award this year. 

Look at the stats where Messi played and didn't play for Argentina during the World Cup qualifiers...  Even in that Ecuador game had it not been for him (Argentina went behind in the first minute) they would've been shot in Buenos Aires.

I don't know who deserves it but what's for sure is that it's very disputable this year and keep an eye open with an open mind because this award is for the year, not a season and the Ballon d'Or year is nowhere near finished.

[The Artful Dodger]

Argentina are, of course, a better side with Messi in it. I just think his limp world cup counts against him. You can make an argument for Messi winning it every year by virtue of him being the most talented player by a wide margin. 

[JoshBRFC+]

Just look at Barcelona and Argentina last year with and without Messi. Messi was the best player in the world last season. It's more impressive consistently dominating a League rather than winning or doing well in a tournament. But meh.

[Cicero]

God forbid Argentina have a piss easy route to the Copa America Final next summer, and Leo sits out injured whilst Argentina win and lift the trophy.

You can literally anticipate the difference in tune Teso will be blowing. 

[SirBalon]

I think everyone from the AFA to the players have to look at themselves good and hard as to why they’ve underperformed. Saying that, they’ve been to two Copa América Finals and a World Cup Final. Some of the greatest players in the history of the game didn’t even have a sniff at that and nobody questioned any particular individual. 

[Cicero]

14 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

LE PESA LA CAMISETE!!! Listen to the argie commentary, it's a perfect example of Messi's failure with Argentina or are you going to blame the rest of the squad for that horrendous FK at such a crucial time? I got plenty of more examples of how Messi is viewed in Argentina and outside of his comfort zone(Europe)

NO ES UN LIDER! Le faltan wuevos al coño. Sin su Barcelona no es NADA.  

Right. So because the Argentine fans, fans who are notoriously known for slating their players, say he's a failure, it ultimately means its true 

Sorry, that's bollocks. If Messi is a failure for Argentina than Ronaldo is a failure for Portugal. If Messi won the Copa next summer in a similar manner to Ronaldo with Portugal in Euro 2016, you would completely demonstrate double standards and say Argentina are better off without Messi. You can't even deny that you wouldn't. 

Messi can and should do better, however he still is the only bright and consistent component in a team and federation that is in an absolute shambles. Argentina fans turning on him is quite simply idiotic although unsurprising. How quick are they to forget Messi led them to three consecutive finals in a poor team and saved them in WC qualification last year. 

[Cicero]

18 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

26 without a title for Argentina and for 10 years now all the argies are still waiting on Messi to deliver, it's fucking Argentina FfS were a final appearance or three means fuck all when the end result is still a L. All I have heard this past few years is how Messi is in the same category as maradona and some even call him the GOAT.

Excuses Cicero:

That missed FK

Miss PK versus Iceland

Miss PK Copa America final

All those misses were during CRUCIAL matches.(can't recall versus who but didnt Messi missed a PK with Barcelona in a CL semifinal game not too long ago and Barcelona ended up with the L) 

 

Ronaldo 2008 CL Final. Missed penalty against Chelsea. Was saved by his teammates

Ronaldo 2014 CL Final. Was missing all game and almost lost to Atletico until Ramos and Bale saved him. 

Ronaldo 2014 WC. Did fuck all and got knocked out in the group stage. 

Ronaldo 2016 Euro Final. Sat out the final and yet Portugal saved him. 

 

Your double standards are blatant. You go on about CL this, WC/Euro that, yet can't even fathom or realise the contradiction you continue to make. Why is it Ronaldo can get a 'get out of jail' free card when he under performs, yet Messi can't? Is it because the latter is valued and rated at a higher standard? Or is it because Messi has a more important role for his team than Ronaldo, and offers so much influence that when he has a bad game, no one else can step up? 

It's pathetic because if Messi wins the Copa next summer in a similar manner to Ronaldo in Euro 2016, you'd be calling him a failure. 

 

[Guest]

Sometimes I ask you @Cicero why do you even try, then I remember because he's so good at manipulating and twisting posts that it's not exactly easy to ignore him. Like myself yesterday.

I don't think anyone cares if Messi is better than Ronaldo at this point, just the manner that Teso posts it that's so intolerable.

[CaaC (John)+]

 

 

[CaaC (John)+]

You just can't keep this guy down 

 

Lionel Messi is in Barcelona's squad for Tuesday's Champions League match at Inter Milan despite fracturing his arm two weeks ago.

The Argentine is a surprise inclusion though his name is marked with an asterisk saying "the player travels without the medical all-clear".

He was initially ruled out for around three weeks after suffering the injury during a 4-2 win over Sevilla.

Messi has missed the 5-1 win over Real Madrid and a 2-0 victory over Inter.

The forward returned to training last week but was not expected to feature for Barcelona for at least another week.

Coach Ernesto Valverde said on Friday he had not ruled Messi out of playing but was concerned about rushing him back.

Barcelona are currently top of Group B after winning all of their games in the Champions League, while opponents Inter sit in second - their only defeat coming against the Spanish side.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46087250

[SirBalon]

11 hours ago, CaaC - John said:

You just can't keep this guy down 

 

Lionel Messi is in Barcelona's squad for Tuesday's Champions League match at Inter Milan despite fracturing his arm two weeks ago.

The Argentine is a surprise inclusion though his name is marked with an asterisk saying "the player travels without the medical all-clear".

He was initially ruled out for around three weeks after suffering the injury during a 4-2 win over Sevilla.

Messi has missed the 5-1 win over Real Madrid and a 2-0 victory over Inter.

The forward returned to training last week but was not expected to feature for Barcelona for at least another week.

Coach Ernesto Valverde said on Friday he had not ruled Messi out of playing but was concerned about rushing him back.

Barcelona are currently top of Group B after winning all of their games in the Champions League, while opponents Inter sit in second - their only defeat coming against the Spanish side.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46087250

The latest is that he's been left out of the final squad for the game.  It's the right decision no matter how much he wants to return to action.  These things should be done properly.

[CaaC (John)+]

Lionel Messi: Is Barcelona forward really cut out for captaincy?

By Andy West

Spanish football writer

2 hours ago | European Football

When La Liga leaders Barcelona face third-placed Atletico Madrid on Saturday, they will be led out by a man whose playing abilities could never be questioned but whose leadership skills often are: Lionel Messi.

This is Messi's first season as club captain following the departure of Andres Iniesta and, over the years, he has regularly been confronted by allegations that he is not suited for the role.

Is it fair? Should Barca give the armband to somebody else? Messi is obviously a great player…but is he a poor captain?

Maradona leads the complaints

 

 Predictably, many of the fiercest criticisms of Messi's leadership attributes have come from Argentina, where he has struggled to command the universal affection he enjoys in Barcelona.

Most recently, national icon Diego Maradona used a bizarre television interview with Fox Sports as an opportunity to lambast Messi's captaincy of the national team, which he has held since 2011.

"It's useless to make a leader out of someone who goes to the toilet 20 times before a game," said Maradona. "Rather than talking with his team-mates he'll play video games."

Maradona's words were soon shot down. The defense of Messi was led by another Argentine World Cup-winning hero, Mario Kempes.

"Every time Diego opens his mouth it's a problem because he doesn't respect people," retorted Kempes. "Diego's time has passed, and neither is he a good example to say such things."

It is, indeed, increasingly difficult to take Maradona seriously. But he did spend nearly two years working directly with Messi during an ill-fated stint as Argentina coach (2008-2010), so his argument carries some weight.

And Maradona is not alone. Another former Argentina skipper, Daniel Passarella, has also argued that Messi is not suited to captaincy, saying: "The leader of the group is different to the way you play. I admire Messi but his personality is withdrawn and timid."

Messi certainly doesn't fit the traditional mould of a captain: the boisterous and charismatic extrovert who leads his team with exuberant enthusiasm. So are Maradona and Passarella right?

More mature and self-confident: the new Messi

Passarella's argument is more sensible than Maradona's, but you will not find anyone in Barcelona who agrees with it. As far as everyone there is concerned, Messi is the team's undisputed leader.

The key to that belief is the way in which Messi has changed over the years. He has become more confident and comfortable in his own skin, progressing far from the timid teenager who was so quiet that some of his team-mates initially wondered whether he was mute.

Albert Masnou, the deputy editor of Barcelona-based daily newspaper Sport, believes Messi has undergone a remarkable personal transformation.

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"Something really noticeable is Leo's increased maturity," said Masnou. "Now, Leo does everything with a naturalness which can amaze those who used to consider him timid or introverted.

"He has been growing and maturing, and you can see that on and off the field. I don't think captaincy has changed him, but he has assumed the role with great maturity."

This has been a natural growing-up process for Messi: a shy boy in a foreign land gradually maturing into a confident adult with a wife and children, most career objectives already achieved and a strong sense of his place in the world.

Messi's ex-international team-mate Pablo Zabaleta agrees with Mansour's assessment, believing his old friend is now perfectly suited to the demands of captaining Barca.

"When you are a captain, you have responsibilities to welcome everyone," Zabaleta stated in my book, Lionel Messi and the Art of Living. "Leo does that more naturally now because he is more mature.

"He's not a kid anymore - in fact he's the father of his own three kids! He's grown up, and he's also a family man who knows how to treat people like a family."

Still understated, but more assertive

Messi's newfound maturity manifests itself in a more assertive manner, an ability to express himself more confidently and clearly.

He still conducts media interviews relatively rarely, but he speaks more than previously and is no longer the tongue-tied youngster who struggled to string two sentences together.

Masnou believes Messi's reticence gives him a greater sense of authority when he does talk, noting: "When he speaks, it's because he's really got something to say and everyone listens to him. What he says is meaningful."

An example came in August when Messi was required to deliver a traditional pre-season speech to fans before a friendly against Boca Juniors.

Rather than issuing the bland platitudes expected from a supposedly meek introvert, Messi instead made a bold pledge: "Last season was really good as we did the double but we all felt bad about how it went in the Champions League. We promise this season we will do everything we can to bring that beautiful trophy back to the Nou Camp."

That speech made a huge impression among fans, immediately becoming a rallying cry. Masnou notes with particular surprise that "nobody prepared the speech for him…he improvised it," and they absolutely weren't the words of a man who shies away from leadership.

Increasingly, the same kind of purposeful assertiveness is being seen behind the scenes. A couple of weeks ago, for instance, Messi approached Barca coach Ernesto Valverde to ask why Malcolm, a summer signing from Bordeaux, had not been receiving more playing time.

Valverde responded by introducing Malcolm from the bench during the Champions League game at Inter Milan for his first appearance since September. Two minutes later, the Brazilian scored with his first touch.

Leading by example

As far as his team-mates are concerned, perhaps the most significant aspect of Messi wearing the skipper's armband is a subtler form of captaincy: leading by example.

Zabaleta has the unique distinction of both captaining and being captained by Messi during their 11 years together with Argentina's youth and senior international teams, and he believes Messi's presence alone makes him a worthy leader.

"If I see Leo Messi is showing me his ambition to win, that's inspiring," he said. "If the best player in the world is producing his best in every game, then every single player needs to do the same. You follow people like that."

Winger Malcolm concurs, telling: ESPN Brazil" He always wants the best for the group. This is why he's captain and someone who can inspire players to give their best. Coming from someone who has five Ballon d'Or awards, you're motivated."

Right now, this is all particularly pertinent for Ousmane Dembele. The French winger, 21, is struggling to translate his undoubted talent into effective performances, and a stream of disciplinary issues are seriously testing Barca's patience.

One train of thought argues that Messi, as club captain, should personally intervene, setting Dembele on the right path with some well-chosen words of reprimand and encouragement.

But although Dembele needs help from others, he also needs to help himself. And there would surely be no better way of learning how to convert his youthful talent into a successful career than emulating the example set by his captain, right in front of his eyes.

Messi is not the type to motivate the likes of Dembele through rousing speeches or kick-up-the-backside sermons. But Dembele doesn't need to listen to Messi; he just needs to watch him. What better leader could he possibly have?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46279184

3

[The Artful Dodger]

Captaincy is completely meaningless in football, it's just a PR man who can be arsed speaking to the press and representing the club for commercial and formal purposes.