Tottenham 0-2 Liverpool - Saturday 1st June, 2019 - FINAL

[Dr. Gonzo]

16 hours ago, Dan said:

Was away in Krakow this weekend and watched the final there. Unsurprisingly the bar I was in was quite pro Liverpool but it is what it is.

Think the penalty completely killed the game because Liverpool then had the license to just sit back and try and pick Spurs off for more goals on the break. Thought they looked dangerous on the break for a while after but the longer it went on the more the game just vanished into a bit of a non-event.

Took until about the 75th minute for anything noteworthy to happen, Spurs began to look more threatening but they had too many off days from their attacking players. Kane was ineffective as I expected he'd be, Son was probably the biggest danger but didn't produce much, Eriksen I'm really not sure what's happened to him, he's looked poor for a while now, and Alli... awful.

I think Pochettino was a bit damned either way with Kane. If he didn't win the game the decision to start him or not would become the forefront of the discussion no matter what so I'm not completely buying this rhetoric that he got this wrong - like I said, the game was skewed before anything even happened, both gameplans were ripped up immediately, and this naturally puts Kane in a trickier position because Liverpool can play a bit more defensively.

Think @Inverted does say a few things on Kane that I have a gut feeling about myself. You do get the feeling that he is treated like he is absolutely indispensable for both Tottenham and England to the point he will play every minute he possibly can to the point that he will never get a break. I'm a bit cynical of how quickly he seems to return from injuries and think he keeps getting rushed back because of a seeming desperation - he looked absolutely fucked in the World Cup by the end (and finished it pretty weakly in my eyes too) yet he played just about every minute. I think he just needs some fucking rest to be honest, let him recover, but that's got to wait as you've now got the Nations League. It comes as no surprise to me that he had his worst goalscoring season since his emergence this year. I think he's just a bit knackered.

As for Liverpool I thought while they weren't at their best, they were worthy winners. It would've been a travesty if this Liverpool side had ended the season trophyless. They went into this season with some excellent parts to them but still some glaring weaknesses too which were addressed in the summer, something that has lead to a domestic campaign where they were incredibly unlucky to not win it and a European trophy at the end to boot. Fantastic side who I think have become established in the top tier of teams in Europe after years of under-achievement. Congratulations to them and they deserve it.

I thought both Kane for them and Bobby for us both looked well off the pace. Neither was fully match fit, I think. In that Jose Mourinho + Arsene Wenger punditry video they spend some time talking about how this is one match where managers can't trust their players when they say "I'm fit to play boss." Because they all want to play a part in the final and being fit enough to train isn't quite the same as being fit enough for a competitive match.

Klopp saw his mistake and pulled Bobby off for us pretty early, Klopp making a substitution before the 60th minute is very rare. I think Kane should have been pulled for Lucas earlier to give Spurs their best shot. Was very surprised he played the full 90.

I'm not surprised he's looked knackered and had his worst goalscoring season, I think this has been his season most riddled with injuries. Like you say, he's not really had much of a rest (other than injury layoffs this season - which aren't really a rest as you're trying to regain your health). He does need a rest... but now we've got the Nations League and he's going to be up against Virgil (again) and De Ligt and England don't really have much alternative up top (at least that can really match him in quality). It's pretty rough for him as what he needs more than anything is the summer off - I think both fitness wise and mentally, because this season had to be tough for him and the Spurs squad (despite the fantastic achievement of making the final). Losing in the CL final is a truly gutting experience and they also had the wheels come off of their league campaign, when it looked for a good portion of the season they'd make things a 3 horse race... and then suddenly faded from the conversation as quickly as they were about to be in it.

[Burning Gold]

18 hours ago, Dan said:

I think Pochettino was a bit damned either way with Kane. If he didn't win the game the decision to start him or not would become the forefront of the discussion no matter what so I'm not completely buying this rhetoric that he got this wrong - like I said, the game was skewed before anything even happened, both gameplans were ripped up immediately, and this naturally puts Kane in a trickier position because Liverpool can play a bit more defensively.

I do wonder if arse-covering had something to do with it. I can't say for certain that playing Kane was the wrong choice, but there's no doubt it was the easy option

[Asura]

Congrats to all the Liverpool fans here, every single one of you are great posters as I know. Im happy for Klopp and would have been very sad if they didnt win it so I can only imagine what you all could have gone through if you didnt win. Klopp is easily one of my favourite footballing personalities and I did mention that before too here so really puts a smile on my face to see him win the european cup. 

Spurs were proabably the better team that night and Liverpool didnt play their usual game but I can understand why Klopp did that after a series of losses in the finals. Spurs can only be proud of what they did this season and if they can keep Pochettino I can only see them getting better and stronger.

And for the game, how was that a penalty? The rule is if the ball bounces onto the player's hands after it hits its body part its not a handball isnt it? Or did I miss anything there. 

[Dan+]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I thought both Kane for them and Bobby for us both looked well off the pace. Neither was fully match fit, I think. In that Jose Mourinho + Arsene Wenger punditry video they spend some time talking about how this is one match where managers can't trust their players when they say "I'm fit to play boss." Because they all want to play a part in the final and being fit enough to train isn't quite the same as being fit enough for a competitive match.

Klopp saw his mistake and pulled Bobby off for us pretty early, Klopp making a substitution before the 60th minute is very rare. I think Kane should have been pulled for Lucas earlier to give Spurs their best shot. Was very surprised he played the full 90.

I'm not surprised he's looked knackered and had his worst goalscoring season, I think this has been his season most riddled with injuries. Like you say, he's not really had much of a rest (other than injury layoffs this season - which aren't really a rest as you're trying to regain your health). He does need a rest... but now we've got the Nations League and he's going to be up against Virgil (again) and De Ligt and England don't really have much alternative up top (at least that can really match him in quality). It's pretty rough for him as what he needs more than anything is the summer off - I think both fitness wise and mentally, because this season had to be tough for him and the Spurs squad (despite the fantastic achievement of making the final). Losing in the CL final is a truly gutting experience and they also had the wheels come off of their league campaign, when it looked for a good portion of the season they'd make things a 3 horse race... and then suddenly faded from the conversation as quickly as they were about to be in it.

The Firmino situation kind of sums it up to me as well - he had a similar performance but ultimately nobody talks about it because his team won, and really in spite of him rather than because of him.

I called Kane having his worst season in the summer because I think he'd become burnt out and that's pretty much what's happened. In an act of near desperation Tottenham have brought him in for this final but could've probably gotten away with not. Like you say it's very hard for a manager to say no to him when he's said he's fit, but I think it's pretty clear he wasn't really ready, even if I'm not pinning their loss on him.

I think the situation is why I can actually see a repeat tomorrow night where Kane does little and ends up losing the game. The alternatives for England aren't as good either. I really don't rate Rashford much and think he's the most overhyped player I can remember, and Wilson I just don't think will get any time when he probably deserves it (outperformed Rashford this season).

I do think however Kane will be back next season with a bang and will be right in contention for the golden boot again, but I am getting more and more cynical of the fact he seems to return ahead of schedule, I feel like he's in danger of becoming a crock by the time he's 30.

 

2 hours ago, Burning Gold said:

I do wonder if arse-covering had something to do with it. I can't say for certain that playing Kane was the wrong choice, but there's no doubt it was the easy option

Like I said earlier on, I think Pochettino was damned whatever he did if he lost the game, and they lost the game within the first minute - they had to chase a game against a very defensively solid side and one that is deadly on the counter. The worst possible start against a team who in theory must throw away very few leads.

I've spent months defending Vardy and others in our team for similar situations where they're easier to mark out of a game because we're 1-0 down (which was a frequent problem for us this season gone, we were appalling at conceding early) so I do have a degree of sympathy with Kane but I said to my mate before the game Kane will do nothing in this and Tottenham will lose, and it happened.

I respected the fact Pochettino didn't admit to getting it wrong. I don't think he's being pigheaded, he's shown a bit of conviction in a lose/lose situation.

Ultimately though I think it would've been a travesty if Tottenham had won. Liverpool have been comfortably better than them this season and I'd go as far as saying Spurs have been better in previous years than this one. I think they've ridden their luck on numerous occasions in the CL this year.

[Harry]

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I thought both Kane for them and Bobby for us both looked well off the pace. Neither was fully match fit, I think. In that Jose Mourinho + Arsene Wenger punditry video they spend some time talking about how this is one match where managers can't trust their players when they say "I'm fit to play boss." Because they all want to play a part in the final and being fit enough to train isn't quite the same as being fit enough for a competitive match.

Klopp saw his mistake and pulled Bobby off for us pretty early, Klopp making a substitution before the 60th minute is very rare. I think Kane should have been pulled for Lucas earlier to give Spurs their best shot. Was very surprised he played the full 90.

I'm not surprised he's looked knackered and had his worst goalscoring season, I think this has been his season most riddled with injuries. Like you say, he's not really had much of a rest (other than injury layoffs this season - which aren't really a rest as you're trying to regain your health). He does need a rest... but now we've got the Nations League and he's going to be up against Virgil (again) and De Ligt and England don't really have much alternative up top (at least that can really match him in quality). It's pretty rough for him as what he needs more than anything is the summer off - I think both fitness wise and mentally, because this season had to be tough for him and the Spurs squad (despite the fantastic achievement of making the final). Losing in the CL final is a truly gutting experience and they also had the wheels come off of their league campaign, when it looked for a good portion of the season they'd make things a 3 horse race... and then suddenly faded from the conversation as quickly as they were about to be in it.

He ended up taking off Winks for Moura? Doesn't that make sense as an attacking substitution rather than take off one striker for another.?

[Harry]

51 minutes ago, Asura said:

Congrats to all the Liverpool fans here, every single one of you are great posters as I know. Im happy for Klopp and would have been very sad if they didnt win it so I can only imagine what you all could have gone through if you didnt win. Klopp is easily one of my favourite footballing personalities and I did mention that before too here so really puts a smile on my face to see him win the european cup. 

Spurs were proabably the better team that night and Liverpool didnt play their usual game but I can understand why Klopp did that after a series of losses in the finals. Spurs can only be proud of what they did this season and if they can keep Pochettino I can only see them getting better and stronger.

And for the game, how was that a penalty? The rule is if the ball bounces onto the player's hands after it hits its body part its not a handball isnt it? Or did I miss anything there. 

In any other part of the pitch I can't see that event playing out without being called for handball so I think it's the right call, but I think the rule should only part an indirect freekick for that when there is no clear goalscoring opportunity.

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, Harry said:

He ended up taking off Winks for Moura? Doesn't that make sense as an attacking substitution rather than take off one striker for another.?

In a normal sense, yeah it would. But Kane was up to nothing all match so keeping him on, imo, hurt the fuck out of Spurs's potency in front of goal. It was good for us though.

[Asura]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

In any other part of the pitch I can't see that event playing out without being called for handball so I think it's the right call, but I think the rule should only part an indirect freekick for that when there is no clear goalscoring opportunity.

How is that even called handball when the ball didnt hit his arm? It was only his chest/armpit where the ball hit, isnt it? 

Maybe the ball bounced off onto the arm after hitting his chest /pit but as per the rule if the ball bounces onto the arm its not a handball, atleast thats what I thought the rule was.

[LFCMike]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In a normal sense, yeah it would. But Kane was up to nothing all match so keeping him on, imo, hurt the fuck out of Spurs's potency in front of goal. It was good for us though.

It also meant Eriksen dropped further back into midfield. If there's one place Liverpool wanted to see Eriksen, it's deeper. Having Kane and Llorente on at the same time doesn't make sense either. Good for us like you say. 

[Machado]

These two need a show.

[SirBalon]

 

[Harry]

Others may enjoy this. 6 uncut minutes of klopp. His first six minutes as a Champions league winning manager.