LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Cicero said: Neither. He's mentally exhausted. It's the same with Mason Mount. These are young players playing their first season in the Premier League. For a top club. Instead of being easily transitioned in, they are being asked to play every game. At times the entire 90 minutes. It's no surprise their decision making has gone down. There are literally hundreds of players that started young at big clubs and didnt get 'mentally exhausted' after 30 games. I think that's a cop out. I'd rather believe that mentally and talent wise they just aren't cutting it at a big club. I'm not saying they aren't good enough to play at a big club, but great young players make their mark and cement their place. Mounds and James simply aren't that good.
Cicero Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: There are literally hundreds of players that started young at big clubs and didnt get 'mentally exhausted' after 30 games. Name 5
Danny Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: There are literally hundreds of players that started young at big clubs and didnt get 'mentally exhausted' after 30 games. I think that's a cop out. I'd rather believe that mentally and talent wise they just aren't cutting it at a big club. I'm not saying they aren't good enough to play at a big club, but great young players make their mark and cement their place. Mounds and James simply aren't that good. Not really a cop out, some youngsters are better equipped personally and/or by their clubs (like Trent) to hit the ground running. James had half a good season at Swansea and spent everything before that in relative mediocrity. He's also dealing with the loss of his father in the Summer which won't be helping him when the chips are down
The Artful Dodger Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Harsh to say they’re not good enough right now, though it is clear that they aren’t at the level they were hyped to be, particularly Mount who people were taking about absurdly for a while. They need to be taken out of the side but their managers aren’t giving them that.
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Cicero said: Name 5 Owen, Trent, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Neville, Gerrard, Messi, Ronaldo, Mpappe, Fowler .... just off the top of my head.
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, Danny said: Not really a cop out, some youngsters are better equipped personally and/or by their clubs (like Trent) to hit the ground running. James had half a good season at Swansea and spent everything before that in relative mediocrity. He's also dealing with the loss of his father in the Summer which won't be helping him when the chips are down Didnt know about his father so obviously that will affect his mental ability. I just think saying young players are mentally exhausted is a round about way of saying they just aren't good enough at the top level.
Cicero Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, LFCMadLad said: Owen, Trent, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Neville, Gerrard, Messi, Ronaldo, Mpappe, Fowler .... just off the top of my head. Well we can disregard nearly 70% of that list given their debuts were well over 20 years ago. Ronaldo was inconsistent as ever his first season in England and United fans can vouch on that. Messi is the greatest player of all time. TAA got mugged off defensively on occasion his first spell with Liverpool. Mbappe is the only exception yet you and I both know things would be different had he made his debut in the PL vs the farmers league. Mount started off the season brilliantly. Played the ball fast, pressed intelligently, made good decisions in the third, found the back of the net when given the chance, etc. Lampad has been playing him non stop and it's affecting him. There's also rumors Lampard was playing him injured. He's just turned 21, playing his first season in the Premier League and in Europe, being a vital figure in a club competing for top honors. To think a young player wouldn't drop in quality after a while given those circumstances is a bit daft. Being inexperienced in the environment you're in, such as performing at a consistent level against the pace and demanding nature of the Premier League, will undoubtedly result in a player being mentally drained. Especially when they are continued to play.
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Cicero said: Well we can disregard nearly 70% of that list given their debuts were well over 20 years ago. Ronaldo was inconsistent as ever his first season in England and United fans can vouch on that. Messi is the greatest player of all time. TAA got mugged off defensively on occasion his first spell with Liverpool. Mbappe is the only exception yet you and I both know things would be different had he made his debut in the PL vs the farmers league. Mount started off the season brilliantly. Played the ball fast, pressed intelligently, made good decisions in the third, found the back of the net when given the chance, etc. Lampad has been playing him non stop and it's affecting him. There's also rumors Lampard was playing him injured. He's just turned 21, playing his first season in the Premier League and in Europe, being a vital figure in a club competing for top honors. To think a young player wouldn't drop in quality after a while given those circumstances is a bit daft. Being inexperienced in the environment you're in, such as performing at a consistent level against the pace and demanding nature of the Premier League, will undoubtedly result in a player being mentally drained. Especially when they are continued to play. They are all players that cemented a place at a big club? Have you ever considered that Mount was an unknown quantity in the Premier league and now hes been found out somewhat? Maybe other clubs have worked out exactly how to nullify him, or at least contain him? But hey, if you say he is mentally drained, who am I to argue.
Cicero Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, LFCMadLad said: They are all players that cemented a place at a big club? But hey, if you say they were mentally drained, who am I to argue. Right. And how long did that take before they did it consistently? Who, of the class of 93', played as important role as Mount did during their debut? I don't even think Giggs played as many games, he was transitioned in. Hell, even Messi was transitioned in by Rijkaard. That is the point of this whole argument.
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Cicero said: Right. And how long did that take before they did it consistently? Who, of the class of 93', played as important role as Mount did during their debut? I don't even think Giggs played as many games, he was transitioned in. Hell, even Messi was transitioned in by Rijkaard. That is the point of this whole argument. Ok ok, Mount is mentally weak. I stand corrected.
Cicero Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, LFCMadLad said: Ok ok, Mount is mentally weak. I stand corrected. You have an issue with understanding context.
The Artful Dodger Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 The London press are desperate for a London club to develop a successful side rather than buy one which is why we have been told that Abraham and Mount are brilliant.
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: The London press are desperate for a London club to develop a successful side rather than buy one which is why we have been told that Abraham and Mount are brilliant. That's my point. I dont think they are mentally exhausted, I think they simply aren't good enough to be starting week on week out for a top Premier league side. Apparently though that makes me unable to understand context?
The Artful Dodger Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 They aren’t good enough at the moment, doesn’t mean they can’t be. They are being overly used by managers who don’t really know what they’re doing at this level.
Danny Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said: That's my point. I dont think they are mentally exhausted, I think they simply aren't good enough to be starting week on week out for a top Premier league side. Apparently though that makes me unable to understand context? Which is why they're mentally exhausted, because they're starting week in week out when their clubs have no other options...
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, Danny said: Which is why they're mentally exhausted, because they're starting week in week out when their clubs have no other options... No other option? Well that's not correct at all. Cicero has been clambering for Giroud to start for weeks now, even though a few months ago he said he wanted Giroud gone (but that's Cicero in a nutshell). Anyway, if you guys think Mount etc are mentally exhausted after less than 30 games then fine, the poor little buggers.
DeadLinesman Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 Beckham was at Preston in 94/95, so I’m not sure how he was being fully blooded in a United team.
LFCMadLad Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said: Beckham was at Preston in 94/95, so I’m not sure how he was being fully blooded in a United team. Ok scratch Beckham. Although he still broke into Utd's side as a young player and didnt start making shit decisions on the pitch due to mental exhaustion. You can see why I think the story of Mount being mentally drained is nonsense though? Mount/Tammy are only getting so many games at Chelsea because they're not very good, along with the manager not being very good/experienced. Nothing to do with their mental state imo.
DeadLinesman Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 2 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: Ok scratch Beckham. Although he still broke into Utd's side as a young player and didnt start making shit decisions on the pitch due to mental exhaustion. You can see why I think the story of Mount being mentally drained is nonsense though? Mount/Tammy are only getting so many games at Chelsea because they're not very good, along with the manager not being very good/experienced. Nothing to do with their mental state imo. It’s a difficult one. I’ve not seen enough of Mount to comment, but Tammy Abraham has played elsewhere and at this level. I genuinely think Daniel James is both mentally and physically shot though. He hadn’t even had a full season in the Championship and is now being relied on week in/out in the spotlight of the worst United team in 30 years. We think it’s easy, but imagine being at the top of your profession under that pressure? TAA and Robertson have shone in a team rarely under pressure so to speak as they’ve been bedded in and can rely upon world class strikers, midfielders and VVD. Who do James, Mount and Abraham have to look upto or take the pressure off? I don’t think anyone.
Subscriber Dan+ Posted February 3, 2020 Subscriber Posted February 3, 2020 I do believe you've got to throw youngsters in at the deep end occasionally in some games but I do think a reliance on them to start basically every game is a bit daft. To me this move was just far too soon for someone like James - he should've been going to Crystal Palace or Bournemouth, not Manchester United. Thought exactly that at the time.
Cicero Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 18 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: No other option? Well that's not correct at all. Cicero has been clambering for Giroud to start for weeks now, even though a few months ago he said he wanted Giroud gone (but that's Cicero in a nutshell). Anyway, if you guys think Mount etc are mentally exhausted after less than 30 games then fine, the poor little buggers. You genuinely don’t get it. Any young player with inexperience will surely have a patch of inconsistency when they are being played week in week out. Let alone at clubs that are struggling. You even stated you’d have Mount over Pogba when the former hit the ground running at the start of the season. You honestly can’t comprehend how football works on a mental aspect for young players being thrown into the water and asked to swim. The fact you mentioned TAA and conveniently missed the glaring obvious he was shite defensively his first season proves that. 17 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: Mount/Tammy are only getting so many games at Chelsea because they're not very good, along with the manager not being very good/experienced. Nothing to do with their mental state imo. It has everything to do with their mental state. Jesus Christ. They hit the ground running and were at a point the highest goal scoring striker and midfielder in the league. They are being asked to play every game and you don’t think it would exhaust them mentally? Have you ever played football before? And yes. Beckham has made shit decisions and had patches of inconsistency when he was young. Virtually every young player being played every game has patches of inconsistency. To think otherwise is daft. 18 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: Apparently though that makes me unable to understand context? You in a nutshell.
The Artful Dodger Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 Anyone who says they would take Mason bloody Mount over Pogba is not to be trusted, they'd be clinically insane.
True Blue Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Anyone who says they would take Mason bloody Mount over Pogba is not to be trusted, they'd be clinically insane. It's not like they play the same position either?
Administrator Batard Posted February 3, 2020 Administrator Posted February 3, 2020 How did this thread become dominated by Mount?
Cicero Posted February 3, 2020 Posted February 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Batard said: How did this thread become dominated by Mount? Mount and James fall into the category of young, PL debuts playing virtually every game and starting off the season brilliantly but are now slowing down. There is a bizarre counter argument that mental fatigue isn’t a factor in their drop in form.
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