Azeem Posted June 17, 2019 Author Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) Think there are some elements in Iran who carried this out, not everybody was aware for sure. Probably those who want to get rid of this regime but still the actual attack itself was highly coordinated that the ships were not meant to sink and that's where i think Saudi money and Israeli skills came handy. Edited June 17, 2019 by Stick With Azeem Quote
Harry Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I think whichever party is in charge, if the US starts another stupid war in the Middle East the UK will follow - unfortunately. Honestly I'd be surprised. The Iraq war has taken a big toll on the psyche of the public and their willingness to endorse government engagement in conflicts. It's a pretty poisonous brew to have to sell to the masses, although the drive to make people stop talking about brexit would be significant... There's also a significant risk that the US administration post 2020 will take a different stance given how hard Obama worked to bring a different approach to Iran, and given most political leaders despise Trump I don't see alot of strategic benefit in jumping in. Trump has put forth an isolationist agenda and spoke against most traditional alliances. Why should any alleged ally legitimise his agenda? Edited June 17, 2019 by Harry Quote
SirBalon Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Harry said: although the drive to make people stop talking about brexit would be significant Under normal circumstances it would bury the Conservative Party even more when we consider the mass movement against the Irak War in Tony Blair's tenure and the fact the people are more wary of anything initiated in these terms by the US these days. You could say this about the world over to be honest. BUT! There is a very important "but" here which is that even though the Tories have been decimated and reduced to almost nothing due to Brexit where even most of their hardcore tribal voters have abandoned them. If Brexit has done one thing is that it's changed socialogical perceptions, behaviours and fundamentally it has made British classes and idelogical sensibilities regress back to before the fight for a more politically correct and socially tolerant society... Today there is a total lack of care of observation for speaking one's mind. Where as before you would watch what you would say, today and now we have a whole new ball game where even politicans have fallen into the emotional and visible bigoted clap-trap that's been festering for decades and has transmitted itself to the people. Populism and everything else you may want to call it means that what one wants means that one will back and support openly what they feel. Those in support of Brexit will also be more inclined to support someone like Donald Trump and what he is percieved to represent and with for example this "No Deal" Brexit scenario which is all bullshit and where practically no Brexiter really understands (the more intelligent ones that stand to benefit from is will pretend to not understand and peddle lies and fantasies) has the support of this odd US Trade Deal which already exists aside from what's illegal to trade and bring into the EU safety and quality control standards and of which will even have those that don't particularly like Donald Trump getting into bed with anything he may want to do so as to keep it all nice and cosy. What you do have in its totallity is that those that are fighting to remain which is either half of the UK or according to statistics, more than half these days, will be vehemently against any participation or aligning themselves with "Trumpism" in any shape or form. I don't know if you've understood any of what I've just written because it's not an easy subject to transmit without either going into extreme detail regarding Brexit and present US/UK relations or having to follow it all extremely closely with detail and making sure one either stays away from news platforms with an agenda which isn't easy or that one is so clued up that they can then dissect what's real from what's manipulation when reading the ideologically unbalanced media. In short (after all that)... Were the United Kindgom to join in a war with the USA in anything to do with the Middle East right now, it WOULD cause the biggest and most public bout of civil disobedience and unrest ever witnessed on these islands, certainly in peacetime. Sensibilities and emotions are already being stretched to the limit here in the UK especially in England and any government be it from the right or from the left would have to be extremely transparent, clear and honest (a practical impossibility right now) before making any decision of this magnitude. An alignment with the US in what already looks extremely dodgy and based totally on the US trying to get its way in political and social destabilisation of the region in question would blow things up and destroy the British political system up for good. 1 Quote
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Harry said: Honestly I'd be surprised. The Iraq war has taken a big toll on the psyche of the public and their willingness to endorse government engagement in conflicts. It's a pretty poisonous brew to have to sell to the masses, although the drive to make people stop talking about brexit would be significant... There's also a significant risk that the US administration post 2020 will take a different stance given how hard Obama worked to bring a different approach to Iran, and given most political leaders despise Trump I don't see alot of strategic benefit in jumping in. Trump has put forth an isolationist agenda and spoke against most traditional alliances. Why should any alleged ally legitimise his agenda? Brexit is exactly why the UK will jump in if the Trump administration gives the order. We can’t exactly afford to be on the US’s bad side as we head towards no deal. Edited June 17, 2019 by Dr. Gonzo Quote
SirBalon Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Brexit is exactly why the UK will jump in if the Trump administration gives the order. We can’t exactly afford to be on the US’s bad side as we head towards no deal. Why? We already trade with the US anyway. We can’t sell them anything else as we already sell everything of the very little we manufacture. The only thing we don’t trade with them is what’s currently forbidden to enter the EU due to a lack of standards set by EU regulations. it’s bullshit mate! Also... Remember the country is split 50/50 minimum on this. Quote
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 17, 2019 Posted June 17, 2019 1 hour ago, SirBalon said: Why? We already trade with the US anyway. We can’t sell them anything else as we already sell everything of the very little we manufacture. The only thing we don’t trade with them is what’s currently forbidden to enter the EU due to a lack of standards set by EU regulations. it’s bullshit mate! Also... Remember the country is split 50/50 minimum on this. You’re assuming there’s anyone in our government with a spine 1 1 Quote
Azeem Posted June 17, 2019 Author Posted June 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: You’re assuming there’s anyone in our government with a spine Quote
MUFC Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 Its on then. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48671319 Quote
Harry Posted June 18, 2019 Posted June 18, 2019 4 hours ago, MUFC said: Its on then. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48671319 Until they get some polling data about what people think, or Trump hears negative commentary about it on Fox Quote
Azeem Posted June 18, 2019 Author Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) @Harry Trump is the big wildcard though on numerous occasions during his short spell of presidency, he has shown the tendency to do exactly what everyone warning him not to do if for nothing else just to see what happens if he did. What makes you guys think that attacking Iran would be too different ? I suppose he does still need an approval from Congress for a full scale war and doubt he will be given such but i can certainly see him pulling off a surgical attack of sorts just to send a message of intent and to give it one more push to finally force Iran to come to negotiating table with him. If attacking Iran helps him, he will do it. A lot of his political opponents who also hate him right now, will love him if he attacks Iran. Edited June 18, 2019 by Stick With Azeem Quote
Azeem Posted June 18, 2019 Author Posted June 18, 2019 Moving the US embassy was on the cards for a long time but none president wanted to risk any global outrage but Trump did it ! Quote
Azeem Posted June 20, 2019 Author Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Stick With Azeem said: US drone shot down by Iran US says it's drone was flying over international waters, this could be the excuse to launch a surgical strike type response. Quote
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 That’s probably exactly why they flew it over Iran Quote
The Artful Dodger Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 A drone? Really? I've seen some bullshit excuses for launching illegal wars but this would be the number 1. Quote
Azeem Posted June 20, 2019 Author Posted June 20, 2019 Trump tweeted ' Iran made a very big mistake ' since twitter is the most authentic news source for genuine Trump behaviour so that's scary Quote
6666 Posted June 20, 2019 Posted June 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Stick With Azeem said: Trump tweeted ' Iran made a very big mistake ' since twitter is the most authentic news source for genuine Trump behaviour so that's scary True but he says any old shit that pops into his head when it comes to Twitter. When it comes to what the US will actually do, we'll have to wait for what the bloodthirsty advisers tell him to say. Quote
Harry Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 9 hours ago, 6666 said: True but he says any old shit that pops into his head when it comes to Twitter. When it comes to what the US will actually do, we'll have to wait for what the bloodthirsty advisers tell him to say. I believe Twitter gives the picture of what Trump himself would do in a world with zero checks and balances. 1 Quote
Harry Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 Trump has apparently ordered a strike on Iran but cancelled at the last minute because he's reluctant to start another conflict. It's been reported as him fudging his red line. Some possibilities as to what's at play: a. Trump's genuinely giving pause before rushing in b. He's looking to demonstrate a reluctance to appease the doubters. To create the appearance of him being pushed in by others or by an absolute necessity C. He's now counting on being goaded into it from being called weak by the media D. Option A. but with him eventually caving due to media pressure Quote
Azeem Posted June 21, 2019 Author Posted June 21, 2019 Trump has just made the most presidential decision of his presidency. He just saved lives of perhaps millions. A war with Iran could very well be WWIII. Quote
6666 Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 He called off the strike after the drone they sent in was shot down. Then he tweeted that Iran had made a big mistake. Sounds to me like plans got thwarted and he wants to go in harder next time. Hopefully he has sane people around him to stop him (unlikely I know). Quote
Azeem Posted June 21, 2019 Author Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, 6666 said: He called off the strike after the drone they sent in was shot down. Then he tweeted that Iran had made a big mistake. Sounds to me like plans got thwarted and he wants to go in harder next time. Hopefully he has sane people around him to stop him (unlikely I know). Maybe Putin can help Quote
Harry Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Stick With Azeem said: Trump has just made the most presidential decision of his presidency. He just saved lives of perhaps millions. A war with Iran could very well be WWIII. Don't be so quick to praise mate. He would have been torn apart if he'd bombed Iran for shooting down a UAV. This could be phase 1 of gaining public acceptance. Quote
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 Honestly it’s fucking terrifying having this moron in charge of the world’s largest military, with no secretary of defense, and twats like Bolton and Pompeo whispering into his ear that the US needs to bomb my gran. Apparently the man who’s been counseling Trump to not go to war is Tucker Carlson. What an absolutely fucked timeline. Quote
nudge Posted June 21, 2019 Posted June 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Honestly it’s fucking terrifying having this moron in charge of the world’s largest military, with no secretary of defense, and twats like Bolton and Pompeo whispering into his ear that the US needs to bomb my gran. Apparently the man who’s been counseling Trump to not go to war is Tucker Carlson. What an absolutely fucked timeline. Thought that's China? Quote
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