The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Dr. Gonzo]

Graffiti in Tehran that says "Israel, strike Khamenei's house" 

[6666]

Nazi Israel adding to the number of kids they've killed. Just another day for these scumbags.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

1 minute ago, 6666 said:

Nazi Israel adding to the number of kids they've killed. Just another day for these scumbags.

 

Al Jazeera are pro at reporting news that is completely made up,  ergo why they never show where it happened or use old footage of something completely unrelated.   DIP is a common ploy,  its been about 2 weeks without Palastine being the center of attention,  they must be missing it. 

[OrangeKhrush]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Graffiti in Tehran that says "Israel, strike Khamenei's house" 

I saw that on saturday,  thought it was initially just a joke but it was legit posted on X

[Rucksackfranzose]

37 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I saw that on saturday,  thought it was initially just a joke but it was legit posted on X

Regardless whether this special graffiti does or doesn't exist, this combination of the words posted on x and legit is beyond laughable for somebody doubting the believebality of news channels.

[Dr. Gonzo]

13 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I saw that on saturday,  thought it was initially just a joke but it was legit posted on X

Most people in Iran don't want war with the US or Israel. People are fed up with the ridiculously bad economic conditions and the negative sentiment surrounding the government from that human rights movement that led to mass imprisonment and executions hasn't gone anywhere. There's a huge portion of the country that views their government as the enemy (cos they are) and the rumblings of war as nothing more than something to distract people to keep the government firmly grasping to power. People haven't forgotten that the shadow of the war with Iraq led to the IR consolidating its power and purging out dissenting and more moderate voices post-revolution, they know how the IR operates when it is at war.

When you've got football crowds chanting "marg bar diktator", "marg bar Khamenei," and "marg bar jomhooriye islami" (death to the dictatorship/Khamenei/the Islamic Republic) every week, it really does give a finger on the pulse of how ordinary people in Iran feel about their government.

There's obvious division in the country though. In the more rural communities, support for the IR is strong. Amongst the elite of Iran, unsurprisingly because the reason they are elite has to do with their close ties to the government (if not being actively involved in governance), support for the IR is strong. But in the cities among normal people, I suspect the feeling is more common to what you see in the streets of Tehran or in the football stadiums of the clubs of the big cities. The increasing sentiment that the IR is not a legitimate government and one that only has its "mandate" to lead by the brutality they inflict on their people. All you have to do is look at Iranian posters on twitter/instagram, look at the ones that are actually coming out of Iran... and take a look at what they have to say about their government and sepahis (members of the IRGC). You might have to run it through a translator, but you can see the Iranians that are using their VPNs to express their thoughts to the outside world absolutely hate their oppressors.

And you can't really blame Iranians for not having any appetite for a war with Israel. First, there's a huge number of people that have bitter resentment towards Palestine. Iran's economy is in dire straights and the government funnels money to Hamas and Hezbollah in the name of ending oppression of Palestinians. A lot of Iranians think that money would be better spent on Iran. Inflation is out of control in Iran - tens of millions are struggling with the cost of living, wondering if they will be able to afford their homes & buy food at the same time.

This escalation, which now is likely to bring further US sanctions as well as a military response from Israel, is the last thing Iranians needed in this difficult time for them. The US sanctions have been largely ineffective because while they tank Iran's economy... it really only negatively impacts normal people. The elite keep their money flowing by using Russian and Chinese networks to skirt sanctions as well as simply selling oil on the black market. So further economic hell for the people living in Iran, along with the ever present threat of Israeli strikes.

It's why I find the calls from non-Iranians bellowing for Iran to throw itself into full blown war with Israel so offensive, tbh. These are already struggling and suffering people, to call for them to put their lives on the line to end the "oppression" of people other than themselves, while the international community largely sat back and didn't give a fuck about Iranians pleading for the international community to end their own oppression... it's just insane.

Iran has it's own problems and it's own oppressors to worry about before going to war with anybody else. And like Israel, is surrounded by countries that are either openly hostile or full of people that think less of them because of their religious beliefs and ethnicities - so the prospect of a greater regional war is the prospect of Iran going headfirst into an existential battlefield. Anyone with any interest in peace and stability in the region should be against this conflict escalating to Israel and Iran's cold war truly heating up.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Regardless whether this special graffiti does or doesn't exist, this combination of the words posted on x and legit is beyond laughable for somebody doubting the believebality of news channels.

Yeah tbf social media shouldn't be used as the gauge of whether something is legit or not. Fortunately, this graffiti's been on various legitimate news sources - including the BBC, DW, IranIntl, and I assume others.

I also do think one useful thing about social media posts in Farsi is, because they're generally so rare compared to much of what else you see on social media... it does give you some insight as to what some of the views coming out of Iran are. With 1/3 seemingly just regurgitating government propaganda, and 2/3 people just shitting on the IR and sharing clips, images, memes that reflect how they truly feel of the government... it sort of warms my heart. Shame about the 1/3 population of bootlickers.

[MUFC]

 

[6666]

13 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Al Jazeera are pro at reporting news that is completely made up,  ergo why they never show where it happened or use old footage of something completely unrelated.   DIP is a common ploy,  its been about 2 weeks without Palastine being the center of attention,  they must be missing it. 

Al Jazeera are the most reliable news source in the middle east. I can see why Israel and pro-Zionists hate it though. Becomes more difficult to do propaganda for them.

[OrangeKhrush]

1 hour ago, 6666 said:

Al Jazeera are the most reliable news source in the middle east. I can see why Israel and pro-Zionists hate it though. Becomes more difficult to do propaganda for them.

They have participated in false news reports i this conflict,  just because they skew a view you want to believe doesn't make them correct,  they can report the correct news 99% of the time but they still do drop unsubstantiated hit pieces,  the two worst hit pieces were both around Al Shifa at different stages,  in November they reported the IDF destroyed Al Shifa,  killing 800+ people,  it was then discovered that Al Shifa was standing,  and it was a Hamas rocket that may have been deliberately targeting their own,  but reported as a misfire hitting the parking lot,  killing 49 people.   By the time they did a redaction the story went viral and the damage was done,  that is intentional.   

The next was a month or so ago with a piece about IDF soldiers executing people and raping,  based on a single "eye witness" that later confessed it was a lie to try galvanise Arab interest in the region,  again it was published and later retracted after damage was done.

The media will lens perception based on what base they want,  they want people who are anti semetic to read their material and run with it,  some media is far more reliable and neutral,  I tend to stick to them over the usual suspects.   

Various news sources have suggested that around 300 tons of food aid and around 200 tons of other aid has entered Gaza,  per the UN index Gaza needs 4.2 tons per week food to feed everyone properly,  that means over 54 weeks of food is in Gaza yet the story run is how infamished it is,  this while they make tik toks ranking foreign food aid,  or seemingly made the journey back into Northern Gaza.   Al Jazeera did not show the Associated Press footage of Hamas stealing supply trucks from North Gazans in need,  why because it is Hamas punishing their own people who they believe have been aiding Israel.   

This conflict needs to be viewed through the lens of of bilateral obligation and how Hamas have purposefully violated Rules of war to endanger their own,  the west has been complicit due to the rise of anti semetic factions within both spheres of western politics and anti semitism is heavy on the voting ticket 

[OrangeKhrush]

Always enjoyed Rudy Rochmans views,  lot of thought provoking stuff. 

[6666]

Israel intentionally bombing civilians in Lebanon. Israeli Hitler already talking about plans for settlements in Gaza. They continue to be scum of the earth.

[6666]

Israel genuinely has the US bending over. Germany seems to be the worst here in Europe but the US is still on a whole other level.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Those google workers were fired for defacing the google cloud offices and shouting threats at their coworkers, more than they were fired for protesting. Columbia University had to send in riot police because pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian protestors were kicking off and the school had to close it's campus because it couldn't guarantee safety of students. The commencement speakers thing is probably the most egregious of those 3 things... but really is a graduation ceremony the appropriate avenue for making highly political statements on an issue that's incredibly divisive?

Either way, none of those examples demonstrate anything the US is doing because 1.) google isn't the US government, 2.) Columbia and USC aren't the US government, 3.) even the state funded universities in the US aren't the US government - they're funded by the states they reside in.

Is there any limit to the sort of bad behavior the zealots amongst the "globalise the intifada" crowd will tolerate for their cause? Is it not enough to call for perpetual bloodshed in the Middle East?

[Rucksackfranzose]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Those google workers were fired for defacing the google cloud offices and shouting threats at their coworkers, more than they were fired for protesting. Columbia University had to send in riot police because pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian protestors were kicking off and the school had to close it's campus because it couldn't guarantee safety of students. The commencement speakers thing is probably the most egregious of those 3 things... but really is a graduation ceremony the appropriate avenue for making highly political statements on an issue that's incredibly divisive?

Either way, none of those examples demonstrate anything the US is doing because 1.) google isn't the US government, 2.) Columbia and USC aren't the US government, 3.) even the state funded universities in the US aren't the US government - they're funded by the states they reside in.

Is there any limit to the sort of bad behavior the zealots amongst the "globalise the intifada" crowd will tolerate for their cause? Is it not enough to call for perpetual bloodshed in the Middle East?

Hey! Since when would propaganda care about reality?

[6666]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Those google workers were fired for defacing the google cloud offices and shouting threats at their coworkers, more than they were fired for protesting. Columbia University had to send in riot police because pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian protestors were kicking off and the school had to close it's campus because it couldn't guarantee safety of students. The commencement speakers thing is probably the most egregious of those 3 things... but really is a graduation ceremony the appropriate avenue for making highly political statements on an issue that's incredibly divisive?

Either way, none of those examples demonstrate anything the US is doing because 1.) google isn't the US government, 2.) Columbia and USC aren't the US government, 3.) even the state funded universities in the US aren't the US government - they're funded by the states they reside in.

Is there any limit to the sort of bad behavior the zealots amongst the "globalise the intifada" crowd will tolerate for their cause? Is it not enough to call for perpetual bloodshed in the Middle East?

Where did I restrict it to just being about the US government? Yes it's obvious that they're a bunch of embarrassing, lying hypocrites when it comes to Israel but powerful people within US society who have positions of influence are Israeli sympathisers and look to shut down legitimate criticism of Israel.

And your last paragraph was laughable. Very Rachel Riley-esque.

[Spike]

25 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Where did I restrict it to just being about the US government? Yes it's obvious that they're a bunch of embarrassing, lying hypocrites when it comes to Israel but powerful people within US society who have positions of influence are Israeli sympathisers and look to shut down legitimate criticism of Israel.

And your last paragraph was laughable. Very Rachel Riley-esque.

USA has 330,000,000 people.

[Spike]

Also CNN pretty much has a livefeed of what Israel is doing. Most of it's just photos of dead children, I'd say that's pretty critical.

[Dr. Gonzo]

21 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Where did I restrict it to just being about the US government? Yes it's obvious that they're a bunch of embarrassing, lying hypocrites when it comes to Israel but powerful people within US society who have positions of influence are Israeli sympathisers and look to shut down legitimate criticism of Israel.

And your last paragraph was laughable. Very Rachel Riley-esque.

When you say "the US" you're either making a sweeping generalisation about a massive country, or you're referring to the government. I assumed that, because you were highlighting how US citizens protesting against Israel were being silenced - you'd been referring to the US government.

But again - are these instances of shutting down legitimate criticism of Israel? 1.) sacking people for damaging company property and threatening people who work for that company - that really has fuck all to do with why they were protesting and rather the manner they've gone about protesting; 2.) school shutting down protests getting increasingly violent due to the radical idiots on both sides; 3.) the commencements are the only thing I would concede that yeah maybe that's shutting down legitimate protesting. But again, I'm sure wanting to avoid causing division amongst students graduating is a bigger concern for the university than the right to allow them to make political statements that look like they're being endorsed by the university.

So, at best, you're talking about 1/3 of these examples being legitimate protesting being shut down. The other 2 were pretty legitimate reasons to sack someone, shut down protests.

The Columbia protests could have been legitimate... if they hadn't turned violent. Violence in protest is only legitimate when the protestors are subject to violent oppression for what they're protesting - students living in the US are free from the dangers of being around Hamas/IDF, there's no legitimate reason for them to have made a university campus unsafe.

I'm glad you found something laughable, it returns the favour of me laughing at some of the bullshit you came up with last week.

But honestly, at what point do the actions of certain protestors you agree with actually cross any sort of line? Violence and threats of violence, from people (and directed at people) that are so fucking far removed from this conflict, are obviously not crossing a line for you. At what point do you draw a line where you can say "I support Palestinian human rights, but I don't support this bullshit."

And what exactly do you see as an acceptable resolution to this conflict? I would have thought anything that restores dignity and preservation of Palestinian rights would be seen as a positive step in the right direction for this conflict. But that doesn't seem to be the case, because you've cheered on escalations and been in support of this growing into a wider conflict. Which doesn't really do much for Palestinian human rights or lives generally, other than keep them in the IDF's firing line.

So what do you see as the "end goal" for "your side" - I genuinely want to know, to try to understand your perspective.

[6666]

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

So what do you see as the "end goal" for "your side" - I genuinely want to know, to try to understand your perspective.

Unfortunately the end goal is unlikely to be achieved but that doesn't mean people should stop drawing attention to it and protesting for it.

Wanting Israel's horrific treatment of Palestinians, that has lasted for decades, to end and wanting Israel's negative influence on governments to end are both extremely justifiable.

[6666]

Israel attacks Iran again. They definitely don't like the idea of being held accountable for anything they do.

Heard reports that they didn't think the original attack on Iran would be seen as provocation... These scumbags view killing as their god given right.

[MUFC]

I think because Norris lost time when he went off track. This is the reason his lap time wasn't deleted.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, MUFC said:

I think because Norris lost time when he went off track. This is the reason his lap time wasn't deleted.

FFS not now @MUFC.

[MUFC]

4 minutes ago, Stan said:

FFS not now @MUFC.

Fuck lol, the F1 thread is an inch or 2 below

[Spike]

Formula One.