The Big Middle Eastern Thread

[Azeem]

There are reports IDF lost much of its soldiers that tried the limited ground operation into Lebanon. As opposed to Middle Eastern and other third world people who are used to getting killed and bombed people in fancy parts of the world are not used to such loss of life since WW2. Many a time there are allegations of casualty laundering, Bush allegedly stopped the publication of 60 American deaths in 2004 in Iraq during election season.

That is also the reason these cuntries focus heavily on Air force and maintaining an edge on aerial power because dropping bombs from air is easy than sending ground troops, which Dr. Gonzo highlighted is Iran's weakness and most probably will be their plan to send planes if they really want to attack Iran. Ground invasion is unlikely. 

 

[Toinho]

6 hours ago, Azeem said:

There are reports IDF lost much of its soldiers that tried the limited ground operation into Lebanon. As opposed to Middle Eastern and other third world people who are used to getting killed and bombed people in fancy parts of the world are not used to such loss of life since WW2. Many a time there are allegations of casualty laundering, Bush allegedly stopped the publication of 60 American deaths in 2004 in Iraq during election season.

That is also the reason these cuntries focus heavily on Air force and maintaining an edge on aerial power because dropping bombs from air is easy than sending ground troops, which Dr. Gonzo highlighted is Iran's weakness and most probably will be their plan to send planes if they really want to attack Iran. Ground invasion is unlikely. 

 

US would definitely be ready. I think it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Azeem said:

There are reports IDF lost much of its soldiers that tried the limited ground operation into Lebanon. As opposed to Middle Eastern and other third world people who are used to getting killed and bombed people in fancy parts of the world are not used to such loss of life since WW2. Many a time there are allegations of casualty laundering, Bush allegedly stopped the publication of 60 American deaths in 2004 in Iraq during election season.

That is also the reason these cuntries focus heavily on Air force and maintaining an edge on aerial power because dropping bombs from air is easy than sending ground troops, which Dr. Gonzo highlighted is Iran's weakness and most probably will be their plan to send planes if they really want to attack Iran. Ground invasion is unlikely. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Toinho said:

US would definitely be ready. I think it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

Yeah, I don’t really get that ‘westerners aren’t ready’. Is anyone ever really ready for war, and when will war be on a ‘western front? The proxy wars keeps the westerners safe from harm, save those that get scooped up into the military

War is an act that happens in faraway lands, to uncivilised people that don’t have democracy, which is the most pure, incorruptible, morally transcendent ideal, that could never be abused, manipulated, or exploited.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Toinho said:

US would definitely be ready. I think it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

I think the US is always ready for a war to start... but they've had a pretty poor go of things since the Korean War (and even the way that ended wasn't great because it's technically still not over). Vietnam, the Bush era Iraq invasion, the pointless Afghanistan 20 year adventure.

Honestly the Afghanistan one is kind of cruel, the US and allies came in looking to find Bin Laden - who had fucked off to Pakistan lol- then settled on removing the Taliban. Afghanistan, especially their women, then got 2 decades of improved human rights and a taste of a more normal life. Then the US fucked off and the Taliban came back and rolled back human rights for a shitload of people.

The Iraq invasion really ended up shaping the modern Middle East though. The US coming in and toppling Iraq's government and trying to make Iraq the sandbox for wahabis to run wild ultimately led to the creation of ISIS and similar groups. That ended up spilling into Syria and then we got the Syrian civil war and Syria turning into a sandbox for the US, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and Israel to fuck around with warfare they don't want to call warfare and nobody really gives too many shits about it. And this led to the Islamic Republic of Iran gaining a huge amount of influence in both Syria and Iraq - a situation they'd dreamed of since 1979.

The US's problem is that since WW2, they've gone into wars with big lofty and general goals - but I think not too much thought's put into smaller short term goals to get to that end result. That ultimately leads to their wars being pointless despite their military superiority and their ability to land big wins on the battlefield. But the Vietcong and the Taliban ultimately just had to wait out the US. ISIS was made into a much smaller and less threatening group - but that took an international effort from... the US, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and Syria weirdly.

I think if the US truly wants to beat Iran too... like I said earlier, a ground invasion's probably not going to get them much success. It could be like Iraq where they can quickly defeat the opposition military and depose the government - but it's a lot harder of a country to occupy than Iraq because of the geography. So then they'd be in that same position they were in with Iraq where they've taken out a government but won't truly have a plan for what's next.

If the US and Israel did strike Iran's weapon facilities... I wonder what that would mean for Russia's war in Ukraine where they've been using Iranian drones, missiles and rockets.

[Spike]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think the US is always ready for a war to start... but they've had a pretty poor go of things since the Korean War (and even the way that ended wasn't great because it's technically still not over). Vietnam, the Bush era Iraq invasion, the pointless Afghanistan 20 year adventure.

Honestly the Afghanistan one is kind of cruel, the US and allies came in looking to find Bin Laden - who had fucked off to Pakistan lol- then settled on removing the Taliban. Afghanistan, especially their women, then got 2 decades of improved human rights and a taste of a more normal life. Then the US fucked off and the Taliban came back and rolled back human rights for a shitload of people.

The Iraq invasion really ended up shaping the modern Middle East though. The US coming in and toppling Iraq's government and trying to make Iraq the sandbox for wahabis to run wild ultimately led to the creation of ISIS and similar groups. That ended up spilling into Syria and then we got the Syrian civil war and Syria turning into a sandbox for the US, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and Israel to fuck around with warfare they don't want to call warfare and nobody really gives too many shits about it. And this led to the Islamic Republic of Iran gaining a huge amount of influence in both Syria and Iraq - a situation they'd dreamed of since 1979.

The US's problem is that since WW2, they've gone into wars with big lofty and general goals - but I think not too much thought's put into smaller short term goals to get to that end result. That ultimately leads to their wars being pointless despite their military superiority and their ability to land big wins on the battlefield. But the Vietcong and the Taliban ultimately just had to wait out the US. ISIS was made into a much smaller and less threatening group - but that took an international effort from... the US, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and Syria weirdly.

I think if the US truly wants to beat Iran too... like I said earlier, a ground invasion's probably not going to get them much success. It could be like Iraq where they can quickly defeat the opposition military and depose the government - but it's a lot harder of a country to occupy than Iraq because of the geography. So then they'd be in that same position they were in with Iraq where they've taken out a government but won't truly have a plan for what's next.

If the US and Israel did strike Iran's weapon facilities... I wonder what that would mean for Russia's war in Ukraine where they've been using Iranian drones, missiles and rockets.

It’s simple. You’re overthinking it. The Vietcong live in Vietnam. The Taliban live in Afghanistan, regardless of the USA being near or far doesn’t change that.

[6666]

Israel targeting hospitals in Lebanon while also killing as many random people as possible. Basically running the same plan as their genocide plan in Gaza. Without the whole "of course Israel wouldn't bomb hospitals" discourse... There were actually people that believed Israel's versions of events back then. Some still do.

[Azeem]

11 hours ago, 6666 said:

Israel targeting hospitals in Lebanon while also killing as many random people as possible. Basically running the same plan as their genocide plan in Gaza. Without the whole "of course Israel wouldn't bomb hospitals" discourse... There were actually people that believed Israel's versions of events back then. Some still do.

 

[OrangeKhrush]

 

Interesting map of naval fleets in the Mediterranean.    This does appear to exclude Submarines for obvious reasons. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202410101144

Head of the IRGC Quds Force reportedly detained by the IRGC and being questioned under suspicion of working for Mossad.

[Rucksackfranzose]

@OrangeKhrush Where's your outrage over that martial law adverse shelling of the UN quarter in Lebanon through IDF? Thought you were so concerned about what you call terrorism?

Edited October 10 by Rucksackfranzose

[6666]

 

Not surprising. Already known. Still it's good that a world body is acknowledging Israeli crimes rather than pretending it's not happening like most western governments.

[MUFC]

Keep up the good work.

 

[Azeem]

Don't know Israel will attack Iran or not but they are currently invading Lebanon it's not much in news right now because it's not going exactly to plan. 

That's why they toned it down through euphemism like limited ground operation, if it works ha we invaded it but if it doesn't no no was never meant to invade just limited operation

Edited October 11 by Azeem

[OrangeKhrush]

23 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202410101144

Head of the IRGC Quds Force reportedly detained by the IRGC and being questioned under suspicion of working for Mossad.

Apparently died while interrogated,  only to find out he wasn't working with Mossad. 

21 hours ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

@OrangeKhrush Where's your outrage over that martial law adverse shelling of the UN quarter in Lebanon through IDF? Thought you were so concerned about what you call terrorism?

The UN were supposed to uphold the blue line 1701 agreement,   they allowed Hezbollah to pass through that blue zone then they try to interfere with the IDF upholding 1701.    It is unfortunate but the UN has been complicit in assisting the most terrible regimes survive by somehow giving these regimes a voice.   

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Apparently died while interrogated,  only to find out he wasn't working with Mossad. 

The UN were supposed to uphold the blue line 1701 agreement,   they allowed Hezbollah to pass through that blue zone then they try to interfere with the IDF upholding 1701.    It is unfortunate but the UN has been complicit in assisting the most terrible regimes survive by somehow giving these regimes a voice.   

 

I think whether or not he was a double agent, the IR would always say he wasn't working with Mossad. Heart attack while being interrogated. Assuming they learned how to interrogate from the CIA trained SAVAK (which I would assume because when they took over they'd have all the training manuals), I'd bet he was getting so electricity sent into his body while being questioned.

[OrangeKhrush]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think whether or not he was a double agent, the IR would always say he wasn't working with Mossad. Heart attack while being interrogated. Assuming they learned how to interrogate from the CIA trained SAVAK (which I would assume because when they took over they'd have all the training manuals), I'd bet he was getting so electricity sent into his body while being questioned.

My guess was that to,  electric therapy.    It is no good if you kill the person. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, OrangeKhrush said:

My guess was that to,  electric therapy.    It is no good if you kill the person. 

I think all these cold war torture tactics have been proven to be awful at getting reliable information generally.

[Rucksackfranzose]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think all these cold war torture tactics have been proven to be awful at getting reliable information generally.

Torture tactics generally, throughout human history. Doesn't really matter at what time we look. My favourite example is supposed witches could only be burnt when they were confessing. Simultanously their testifying was only be valid under torture. It's amazing how many witches and wizzards made valid confessions.

Edited October 11 by Rucksackfranzose

[OrangeKhrush]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think all these cold war torture tactics have been proven to be awful at getting reliable information generally.

It is especially useless when the person you are trying to extract from is wanting to be killed. 

[Spike]

6 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

It is especially useless when the person you are trying to extract from is wanting to be killed. 

I wonder why they want to die? Maybe because they are being tortured.

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

It is especially useless when the person you are trying to extract from is wanting to be killed. 

Most people who are being tortured just want to stop being tortured. Like @Spike says, they might want to be killed because... they just want the torture to end. They might have told the truth, then had to flip their story because they think if they say what the torturer wants to hear, it will stop.

I highly doubt Qaani wanted to die. I also haven't seen anything from anywhere reputable that suggests he is in fact dead. Just that his family is unaware of his whereabouts.

Given that we know Israel got the Iranians who helped with the Haniyeh assassinated (and their families), I suspect if Qaani was seriously a double agent (or seriously suspected of being one)... his family is under heavy surveillance. Unlike the CIA, who have been famously negligent with how they treat Iranians who work for them (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-spies-iran/)... Mossad's got a decent track record of getting Iranians who are willing to fight back against their oppressive government out of harms way.

I think unless he turns up somewhere... he probably has been "disappeared" and his death won't even be acknowledged by the IR, and he probably was a double agent. It seems like Mossad had good inside information from at least 1 very senior IRGC officer. I wonder how hard it is to get someone that high up in the IRGC to turn... because despite the sanctions, the higher ups in Sepah always get their cut from whatever money Iran makes. It's easier to find turncoats in the rank and file of the IRGC who aren't as well off, even easier to get soldiers from Artesh to turn in theory since they're not in the IRGC and don't get the same privileges. But high-ranking officers, I imagine would be pretty tough to turn.

I wonder how many of Iran's elites that send their kids to the UK, US, Canada, and around the EU, go visit these places and think "wow these places really really really benefit from not being international pariahs" & are actually willing to fight against the shit system they are a part of.

[Azeem]

U.S is placing its own air defense in Israel indicating Israel's own much vaunted AD wasn't enough to stop the last missile attacks from Iran which were much more serious (stopping rockets made in basement is different from missiles launched without informing first)

 

[Azeem]

Daily Reminder the only two countries that opposed a UN resolution making food a human right were US and Israel

[6666]

Nazi Israel continuing to intentionally kill civilians and also ramping up their attacks on UN peacekeepers. This is what happens when there are no repercussions for a psychotic nation. Hitler could have only dreamed about this level of freedom to kill.

[Rucksackfranzose]

28 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Nazi Israel continuing to intentionally kill civilians and also ramping up their attacks on UN peacekeepers. This is what happens when there are no repercussions for a psychotic nation. Hitler could have only dreamed about this level of freedom to kill.

Woo, wwoo, woo. About 6 Mio Jews, 250k disabled persons, 250k Sinti and Roma, 750k German political opponents, and 125k so called asocials beg forcibly to differ, here.