How to Improve VAR?

[Dan+]

4 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

There was also a stamping incident and even the Ref got shoved in the back quite aggressively by one of the Cameroon players yet those players were allowed to stay on the pitch... crazy really

On your other point TMO was introduced as far back as 2001 and even in 2014 they were some parties still kicking off about certain decisions which you will always get but it's a bit more difficult to make good calls in Rugby, it's more of an assistance than a be all and end all but in general, overall it's an accepted part of the game now.. I couldn't really tell you how long it took for the dust to settle in all honesty

As for VAR I would have been happy if they could have sorted out the goal line incidents first did it cross the line/didn't it cross for example and any serious shouts like handball for instance but not for everything.. the rest needs to be handled by the ref to keep the flow of the game going.. 

I didn't watch the game but I've seen some of the incidents and it's appalling really. I'm all for a bit of fight but that's just embarrassing and they ought to get punished for it.

The difference with rugby and football is that rugby is a lot more stop start than football is in the first place. Likewise cricket where I've seen them using technology and again this is a sport this is stop and start by nature. Football is played at a unique tempo and for me that's why it isn't, and won't work.

It will totally alter the tempo of the game, and by doing this, you will lose those moments of euphoria. Those last minute goals that you talk about for years after are just aren't going to have that same magic when the celebration was cut short - something that VAR will normalise to the point that people won't even really celebrate properly anyway incase they end up looking a twat. That's my fear and I think that's too important a part of the game to sacrifice.

Too many arguments about VAR are based on preconceived bias. Every time I moan about it (naturally more likely when it concerns a game I've got a focus on, such as England v Switzerland the other week) I get picked at saying it's because I'm biased, but it just isn't the case. It doesn't help either when you've got the commentators acting like children as well demanding the use of VAR whenever it suits England but moaning when we're penalised.

Give it six months of VAR in the Premier League and I'm pretty sure it will further steralise the atmosphere.

Goal-line technology is perfect - implemented perfectly, instant result, nobody is complaining. That's progression.

A part of me cynically wonders if referees are bodging it up deliberately because it's the start of the end for them. The argument I've read about using it for offsides is probably the most feasible method where you maintain the tempo of the game by giving an instant decision - but if you implement that, then what is the point of linesmen? They will eventually cease to be a part of the game so why would they want it? Referees likewise are probably fearing being replaced by technology.

One final part of it (I've gone off on one a bit here) for me as well is I don't like the way you're seeing more and more situations where the rules seem to differ based on the competition. You've now got certain leagues and tournaments implementing their own versions of VAR, picking where they use it etc... and it's just ridiculous how this is allowed to happen. You're creating different sports within the sport. It's also a farce that you can have an FA Cup game at Chelsea where there is VAR, yet in the same round have one at Reading where there isn't simply because there isn't the infrastructure. How is the competition even legitimate when you're making it one rule in one game and another in another?

So much wrong with it for me. Too many cons and not enough pros.

[Stan]

9 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

There was also a stamping incident and even the Ref got shoved in the back quite aggressively by one of the Cameroon players yet those players were allowed to stay on the pitch... crazy really

This isn't a dig at you because I've seen a lot of people go crazy on Twitter about it. I'm guessing a lot of people saw the slow motion replay of this. In real time it was nothing. Both an England player and the Cameroon player were running towards the ball and the ref found herself in the way. It's not like a Di Canio/Alcock incident which it's being made out to be. The ref and the Cameroon player even had a laugh about it. 

[Bluewolf]

3 hours ago, Stan said:

This isn't a dig at you because I've seen a lot of people go crazy on Twitter about it. I'm guessing a lot of people saw the slow motion replay of this. In real time it was nothing. Both an England player and the Cameroon player were running towards the ball and the ref found herself in the way. It's not like a Di Canio/Alcock incident which it's being made out to be. The ref and the Cameroon player even had a laugh about it. 

 Why would you assume that I would take your post as a dig??? you are merely stating what you believe you saw.. you are strange sometimes mate.. 

I tell you what I see, I see an angry player already pissed off about calls not going their way getting a little bit aggressive and disrespectful... If you also add in the fact the Ref was already ignoring VAR calls for fouls to try and keep them on the pitch we shouldn't be surprised she tried to brush it off and have a laugh and joke about it afterwards?? 

Just my thoughts though... each to their own and all that

 

[Stan]

35 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

 Why would you assume that I would take your post as a dig??? you are merely stating what you believe you saw.. you are strange sometimes mate.. 

I tell you what I see, I see an angry player already pissed off about calls not going their way getting a little bit aggressive and disrespectful... If you also add in the fact the Ref was already ignoring VAR calls for fouls to try and keep them on the pitch we shouldn't be surprised she tried to brush it off and have a laugh and joke about it afterwards?? 

Just my thoughts though... each to their own and all that

 

Just didn't want you to think I was just picking at you

 

[Bluewolf]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Just didn't want you to think I was just picking at you

 

No need to worry about that mate, taking something personally on the internet is like seeing dog shit on the path and deliberately stepping in it... 

[RandoEFC+]

Remove all of the grey areas from the actual rules of football so people can actually understand what's going on, what's a correct decision and what isn't.

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 25/06/2019 at 10:12, Dan said:

I'd take that happening even to us if it means we can retain the sport as a proper experience and not this farce that VAR has turned it into. I've said it many a time on here, when people have accepted VAR you have lost a significant part of the atmosphere and the entertainment.

I don't know - watching Sterling's goal disallowed against Spurs in the CL due to VAR, I saw a lot of entertainment and atmosphere.

[Dr. Gonzo]

18 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Remove all of the grey areas from the actual rules of football so people can actually understand what's going on, what's a correct decision and what isn't.

I agree. Give referees less interpreting to do (which would be fucking great, because referees interpreting things usually means: "here's a decision that'll be controversial as fuck" and we'll see a higher standard in VAR decisions as well as refereeing generally.

[Burning Gold]

19 hours ago, Dan said:

The difference with rugby and football is that rugby is a lot more stop start than football is in the first place. Likewise cricket where I've seen them using technology and again this is a sport this is stop and start by nature. Football is played at a unique tempo and for me that's why it isn't, and won't work.

It will totally alter the tempo of the game, and by doing this, you will lose those moments of euphoria. Those last minute goals that you talk about for years after are just aren't going to have that same magic when the celebration was cut short - something that VAR will normalise to the point that people won't even really celebrate properly anyway incase they end up looking a twat. That's my fear and I think that's too important a part of the game to sacrifice.

Bit of a myth this bit about rugby I think. I have absolutely no concrete evidence to back this up, but I'd be surprised if there were significantly more stoppages in rugby union than in football

As for the second part there, I'm repeating myself, but it hasn't happened in any other sport, so I really don't think football's in much danger. The only thing I can think that might be different is that sports like rugby, cricket, NFL give a fair amount of weight to the on-field decision, so you know it's unlikely to be overturned unless there's something obvious. I know this is there in in the wording of the regulations in football, but I don't remember seeing VAR ever defer to the initial decision in practice. That's probably another thing to add to the list of how to improve VAR

[Dan+]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't know - watching Sterling's goal disallowed against Spurs in the CL due to VAR, I saw a lot of entertainment and atmosphere.

I've said it a few times but this is before we're actually used to it. I can't really prove this suspicion of mine until we've had it for a few months and are used to it - by which time we will have altered our default response to goals.

I wish it worked but from what I've seen so far I think it's going to fundamentally change football for the worse.

[Dan+]

8 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

Bit of a myth this bit about rugby I think. I have absolutely no concrete evidence to back this up, but I'd be surprised if there were significantly more stoppages in rugby union than in football

As for the second part there, I'm repeating myself, but it hasn't happened in any other sport, so I really don't think football's in much danger. The only thing I can think that might be different is that sports like rugby, cricket, NFL give a fair amount of weight to the on-field decision, so you know it's unlikely to be overturned unless there's something obvious. I know this is there in in the wording of the regulations in football, but I don't remember seeing VAR ever defer to the initial decision in practice. That's probably another thing to add to the list of how to improve VAR

You can't compare the reactions in cricket to football. Cricket's a far more laid back sport which stops and starts by nature. Football just isn't like that and if it is then it just isn't football as I know it.

I do think VAR's been used terribly so far and I go back to the point that I have a suspicion that the officials are doing that deliberately because they're signing their own death wise.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

You can't compare the reactions in cricket to football. Cricket's a far more laid back sport which stops and starts by nature. Football just isn't like that and if it is then it just isn't football as I know it.

I do think VAR's been used terribly so far and I go back to the point that I have a suspicion that the officials are doing that deliberately because they're signing their own death wise.

The referee going to the touchline to watch a screen with everyone watching on is a pretty dumb and illogical way of doing it.

Like tennis and cricket I'd rather see authority being given to an additional official in a consistent way with only some line ball decisions reverting to umpires call.

[Burning Gold]

21 hours ago, Dan said:

You can't compare the reactions in cricket to football. Cricket's a far more laid back sport which stops and starts by nature. Football just isn't like that and if it is then it just isn't football as I know it.

I do think VAR's been used terribly so far and I go back to the point that I have a suspicion that the officials are doing that deliberately because they're signing their own death wise.

Of course you can. It doesn't matter how stop-start the game is; you're celebrating the change in score, not the stoppage itself. If cricket's a more laid back sport (which I don't disagree with at all) would you not expect celebrations to be more likely to be muted than in football? I would

But it's not just cricket, it's every sport that has video reviews

[Dr. Gonzo]

They've got to change the rule about offside decisions and keeping the flag down. It's fine when it's tight and not obvious, then have VAR make a review. When a player is 2 or 3 yards offside, raise the fucking flag - we don't need to have that reviewed.

[RandoEFC+]

On 16/08/2019 at 18:25, Dr. Gonzo said:

They've got to change the rule about offside decisions and keeping the flag down. It's fine when it's tight and not obvious, then have VAR make a review. When a player is 2 or 3 yards offside, raise the fucking flag - we don't need to have that reviewed.

This has been doing my head in as well. I agree with the concept of keeping the flag down if you're only 60% sure it's offside but sometimes it's visible in real time on TV and the linesman keeps their flag down when they have just a tiny doubt that it was offside.

[Machado]

Is this the future of VAR?

https://streamable.com/fstmt