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football forum

Other Matches - 26-27th October, 2019

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all kick-offs 15.00 unless stated

Saturday 26th October, 2019
Brighton vs Everton
Watford vs Bournemouth
West Ham vs Sheff Utd

Sunday 27th October, 2019
Arsenal vs Crystal Palace, 16.30
Norwich vs Man Utd, 16.30

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Win 0-1 away in the Europa and from what I heard was another crap performance and only won through a penalty, take a gamble and say United getting 2 goals this time around and win, maybe Martial starts again and scores again but I won't count my chickens on that one and just keep playing the youth Ole, better than nothing.

Norwich 0-2 United and PLEASE Ole don't give young the captains armband. :coffee: 

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Bloody Everton you twats, had it down as a 2-2 result in Stan's prediction game and the fucking toffees captain scores an own goal at the death. :dash3:

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Everton being classic Everton and landing me £116 in the process but in fairness to them, that second Brighton goal is outrageous. I'd love a manager to come out publicly calling for investigation into some of these decisions.

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7 minutes ago, Dan said:

Everton being classic Everton and landing me £116 in the process but in fairness to them, that second Brighton goal is outrageous. I'd love a manager to come out publicly calling for investigation into some of these decisions.

If you’re suggesting that there’s some form of match fixing going, that’s just ludicrous. 

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1 minute ago, Smiley Culture said:

If you’re suggesting that there’s some form of match fixing going, that’s just ludicrous. 

I want serious challenges to the absolute bullshit we're seeing served up week in, week out in football now. How on earth with technology in the game reviewing these decisions are we still getting this kind of thing still happen? 

It needs to be questioned.

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It's probably a penalty. But how that's getting given but for example, the one on Matip against Newcastle earlier in the season doesn't, is beyond me

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Listened to the last 20 in the car on the way home from football. Seen the VAR decision on Twitter. Shambolic. How the Premier League have managed to watch VAR implemented in the World Cup and leagues across the world to give themselves time to decide how best to implement it themselves, and come up with the worst implementation we've seen anywhere.

The technology is an asset but now it just seems you have two referees making stupid decisions to ruin games instead of just one which was bad enough.

Was Keane's "foul" worse than the foul on Origi last week? Seriously? Why is it a high bar for intervention under some circumstances but when theres a proper game changing decision like awarding the trailing team a penalty at 1-2 then suddenly the slightest offence is a penalty.

I don't need to see the highlights to know what we've served up today because I've seen it from us on the road since Moyes left. I'm also not saying we'd have definitely won if that hadn't been awarded because we're Everton and we probably find another way of throwing it away. But we have every right to feel aggrieved today and I'm not having that it'll even out over the course of the season. If that gets ignored and we do win 2-1 then suddenly we're back up in 7th or so with the away win monkey off our back and a load of momentum behind us. Now we'll all be talking about Tuesday's game as do or die for Marco Silva and the next away game becomes another massive mental block. Could have massive implications on our season.

Again, would lay into our lot because I assume they deserve it, but I can't be arsed repeating what we've said a hundred times before.

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Didn't realise earlier but to make things worse they didn't go to VAR for this one:

And here's the penalty for Brighton for anyone who hasn't seen it.

 

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It's the inconsistency in decisions that is still getting on everyone's nerves. It's nonsense. Get rid of it

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13 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

It's the inconsistency in decisions that is still getting on everyone's nerves. It's nonsense. Get rid of it

Or just accept it. Ultimately, it’s still overseen by a human, who is still likely to make human errors and each game has different officials overseeing the VAR for that game, so just like real life referee’s, they have different interpretations of the law and are inconsistent with decisions made. 

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The technology should stay and maybe they can never get it 100% consistent but at least get rid of the baffling logic. This introduction of technology seems to have put the officials in a mindset of applying the rules in the most clinical circumstances possible without using any common sense. By the letter of the law Keane just about stepped on the player's foot and obviously the lad's going to go down but have some common sense. If you give a penalty every time a defender accidentally steps on a striker's toe in the area then the game's gone. There was no goalscoring opportunity denied and no clear intent. It's the same with the automatic penalties given for handballs like the one United got at PSG. Then you bafflingly don't see incidents like Deulofeu at Spurs last weekend get overturned.

Like I said, the Premier League didn't rush into implementing VAR so it's weird how badly they've done it when they've had longer to think about it and no doubt a lot more money as well. They're trying to be too clever with it and dont seem to grasp the meaning of 'clear and obvious'.

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God knows where we'd be if people just accepted everything by default. Complete cop-out.

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22 minutes ago, Dan said:

God knows where we'd be if people just accepted everything by default. Complete cop-out.

Imagine how fucking boring a sport Football would be if everything was black and white and people weren’t allowed to execute their own interpretations of the laws. 

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21 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Imagine how fucking boring a sport Football would be if everything was black and white and people weren’t allowed to execute their own interpretations of the laws. 

Tend to agree with this. Can't we just accept sometimes things don't go our way, we get a bit of the shitty end of the stick?

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Not when we've quite literally brought technology in to eradicate it.

Weirdly your argument actually sounds quite anti-VAR and funnily enough I agree with it.

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56 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Imagine how fucking boring a sport Football would be if everything was black and white and people weren’t allowed to execute their own interpretations of the laws. 

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm sure it's not what you mean but this comment comes across as if you think football would be boring if the laws were black and white?

The rules of the game are the one thing that definitely should be black and white, at least as far as is possible in a game with 22 human players and 4 human officials on the pitch causing massive variation at all times can be.

If they sorted out the rules and the officiating then perhaps we could spend less time arguing about VAR and referees and actually spend the whole time discussing the stuff that isn't black and white like player performances, tactics, goals, tackles, emotions, you know, all the elements of the sport that actually make it a sport instead of a lottery and or soap opera.

It's odd how other major sports like rugby, tennis and cricket managed to implement technology pretty much seamlessly into their sports, still have a global following and most fans would call them better for it. In football we've had this notion for so long that incorrect decisions are "part of the beauty of it" because we're so addicted to scandal and drama in this sport.

Everyone gets good and bad luck whether that be through injuries, weather, the fixture computer, deflected shots. It's not like football will become a robotic sport where the better team always wins with no excitement if they just tidy up the officiating a bit. We don't need the randomly generated drama of inconsistent and game changing referee interventions to make the sport entertaining but the technology can be used to enhance the integrity of the competition if they sort it out.

Talk about teething problems though.

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1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm sure it's not what you mean but this comment comes across as if you think football would be boring if the laws were black and white?

The rules of the game are the one thing that definitely should be black and white, at least as far as is possible in a game with 22 human players and 4 human officials on the pitch causing massive variation at all times can be.

If they sorted out the rules and the officiating then perhaps we could spend less time arguing about VAR and referees and actually spend the whole time discussing the stuff that isn't black and white like player performances, tactics, goals, tackles, emotions, you know, all the elements of the sport that actually make it a sport instead of a lottery and or soap opera.

It's odd how other major sports like rugby, tennis and cricket managed to implement technology pretty much seamlessly into their sports, still have a global following and most fans would call them better for it. In football we've had this notion for so long that incorrect decisions are "part of the beauty of it" because we're so addicted to scandal and drama in this sport.

Everyone gets good and bad luck whether that be through injuries, weather, the fixture computer, deflected shots. It's not like football will become a robotic sport where the better team always wins with no excitement if they just tidy up the officiating a bit. We don't need the randomly generated drama of inconsistent and game changing referee interventions to make the sport entertaining but the technology can be used to enhance the integrity of the competition if they sort it out.

Talk about teething problems though.

To me this is a problem, and a very big one specifically in English football. It is this soap opera obsession. VAR has made this even more of a thing as well - provides people with yet another non-football thing to dominate the discussion. The problem is you can't actually get away from it - I actually feel at times it's a mistake even mentioning VAR as it just plays into this set up. I want to not talk about it but I can't help myself.

If you think football needs forced controversy to be interesting then maybe it's not really for you.

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Don’t know how anybody can look at some of these decisions and just say “oh well” it’s infuriating how shoddy this VAR setup is. Get rid of the clear and obvious error bullshit and just let the VAR have the ability to overrule the ref on anything. Was watching the Rugby at yesterday and they manage it perfectly. 

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6 hours ago, Dan said:

If you think football needs forced controversy to be interesting then maybe it's not really for you.

It's not forced controversy though? 

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Pickford's little arms letting him down again for that first goal

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3 minutes ago, LFCMike said:

Pickford's little arms letting him down again for that first goal

It was a bloody good free kick though. Pure power. 

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6 minutes ago, Stan said:

It was a bloody good free kick though. Pure power. 

Keeper should save it. Straight at him

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10 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm sure it's not what you mean but this comment comes across as if you think football would be boring if the laws were black and white?

The rules of the game are the one thing that definitely should be black and white, at least as far as is possible in a game with 22 human players and 4 human officials on the pitch causing massive variation at all times can be.

If they sorted out the rules and the officiating then perhaps we could spend less time arguing about VAR and referees and actually spend the whole time discussing the stuff that isn't black and white like player performances, tactics, goals, tackles, emotions, you know, all the elements of the sport that actually make it a sport instead of a lottery and or soap opera.

It's odd how other major sports like rugby, tennis and cricket managed to implement technology pretty much seamlessly into their sports, still have a global following and most fans would call them better for it. In football we've had this notion for so long that incorrect decisions are "part of the beauty of it" because we're so addicted to scandal and drama in this sport.

Everyone gets good and bad luck whether that be through injuries, weather, the fixture computer, deflected shots. It's not like football will become a robotic sport where the better team always wins with no excitement if they just tidy up the officiating a bit. We don't need the randomly generated drama of inconsistent and game changing referee interventions to make the sport entertaining but the technology can be used to enhance the integrity of the competition if they sort it out.

Talk about teething problems though.

It's not about enjoying the scandal. It's about being sick of hearing people moaning about the referres/officials. The truth is for fouls, there is no definitive answer on it. People judge impeding differently and that will never change I'm afraid. 

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41 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

It's not about enjoying the scandal. It's about being sick of hearing people moaning about the referres/officials. The truth is for fouls, there is no definitive answer on it. People judge impeding differently and that will never change I'm afraid. 

No point in the whole reviewing decisions then is there? Just use it for offsides.

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11 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Not really sure what you're trying to say here. I'm sure it's not what you mean but this comment comes across as if you think football would be boring if the laws were black and white?

The rules of the game are the one thing that definitely should be black and white, at least as far as is possible in a game with 22 human players and 4 human officials on the pitch causing massive variation at all times can be.

If they sorted out the rules and the officiating then perhaps we could spend less time arguing about VAR and referees and actually spend the whole time discussing the stuff that isn't black and white like player performances, tactics, goals, tackles, emotions, you know, all the elements of the sport that actually make it a sport instead of a lottery and or soap opera.

It's odd how other major sports like rugby, tennis and cricket managed to implement technology pretty much seamlessly into their sports, still have a global following and most fans would call them better for it. In football we've had this notion for so long that incorrect decisions are "part of the beauty of it" because we're so addicted to scandal and drama in this sport.

Everyone gets good and bad luck whether that be through injuries, weather, the fixture computer, deflected shots. It's not like football will become a robotic sport where the better team always wins with no excitement if they just tidy up the officiating a bit. We don't need the randomly generated drama of inconsistent and game changing referee interventions to make the sport entertaining but the technology can be used to enhance the integrity of the competition if they sort it out.

Talk about teething problems though.

The laws literally cannot be seen as black and white because each person has a different interpretation of the laws and enforces them in their own way. It’s the same with VAR. Each official will see things differently. 

Other sports with video technology still have decisions that appear clear that aren’t given. 

11 hours ago, Dan said:

Not when we've quite literally brought technology in to eradicate it.

Weirdly your argument actually sounds quite anti-VAR and funnily enough I agree with it.

We haven’t though. Nowhere, anywhere on the planet has VAR been mentioned in the same sentence as eradicating previously unseen incidents. It’s a human still making the decisions, so human error is still a possibility. It’s not going to be perfect and 100% correct, it’s physically impossible for it to be. The sooner people understand that, the sooner people might start enjoying football again. 

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I dont think anyone is saying it should literally make it 100% consistent but theres a desirable middle ground between that and what we've seen so far this season.

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Again, VAR is utterly pointless except for offside decisions. It's as simple as that. 

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