Kiko Casilla Given 8-Game Ban for Racist Abuse Towards Jonathan Leko

[Danny]

1 hour ago, True Blue said:

Just do the Kiko Casilla shirt for banter, if Liverpool did it then so can Leeds.

Saying all this i hate racists, would you say having a racist remark make you a racist? I know we are all angels and never done anything wrong, but does Kiko hate colored people? What he did was wrong and punishment is fair, but is he really a racist?

If you’re going that deep the issue isn’t that he’s racist but that he’s racially abused somebody. Racism is systemic, top down, if you are white and live in/grew up in Britain/European colonial power then you will naturally be racist because you have grown up in a system that has groomed you to act and think in a certain way to benefit it, even if you believe yourself to be not racist. Hence the discussion around white privilege. Racism is not just saying the n word or p word but dogwhistling and microaggressions too, singing about a black footballers penis size is racist because it reduces them to a stereotype that was used to degrade them. But unless you’re educated on racism you’ll just think “I’m just saying he had a big dick, what’s wrong with that? The missus would love it if I had a big dick wink wink hint hint nudge nudge”. 

The problem with racism in football is it is weaponised in three ways, the first is racist abuse towards black players, the second is to use it as a tool to beat another club with (Chelsea) to make out your own club/yourself doesn’t have any issues with systemic racism which is bullshit and thirdly it is weaponised through class warfare. Rugby types and people who don’t watch football will go “yeah but it’s so racist...football fans this, football fans that” yet the reason racism is so openly(key word in class based racism) prevelant  in football is because football is the most inclusive sport in the country. It attracts people from all walks of life so the confusion then is that football is racist (though the institutions are through poor disciplinary action re:racism and lack of opportunities for black and brown players as coaches/managers) rather than society is racist.

From a growth perspective Kiko is not wrong because he had the thought that the black player was an n word, that has been ingrained in him by his wider society. He was wrong because he did not challenge the thought and reject, instead he accepted it as part of his vocabulary and communication with another human. And that’s not to excuse racism as “it’s OK, we was brainwashed into it”, it’s bad but for most people indigenous to or physically similar to a European colonial power the starting point of childhood into adolescence is being indoctrinated into systemic bigotry

The irony is you will generally find black and brown people are more forgiving of people trying to rid themselves of racist ideologies than liberal white people are who’ve no emotional attachment to the oppressive side of it

[Spike]

The world would be much simpler without doublethink. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

7 hours ago, Danny said:

 Racism is not just saying the n word or p word but dogwhistling and microaggressions too, singing about a black footballers penis size is racist because it reduces them to a stereotype that was used to degrade them. But unless you’re educated on racism you’ll just think “I’m just saying he had a big dick, what’s wrong with that? The missus would love it if I had a big dick wink wink hint hint nudge nudge”. 

 

Ah yes, having a big cock. The most degrading thing of all

 

7 hours ago, Danny said:

 

The irony is you will generally find black and brown people are more forgiving of people trying to rid themselves of racist ideologies than liberal white people are who’ve no emotional attachment to the oppressive side of it

Like you mr no nut November. 

[Danny]

8 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Ah yes, having a big cock. The most degrading thing of all

 

Like you mr no nut November. 

Missing the point in one  

[Devil-Dick Willie]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

Missing the point in one  

Sorry the grand arbiter of racism must not be 'educated on racism' enough for his lordship. Racism is racially charged terms or behaviour used to belittle or discriminate against people of other races. 
"My black friend has a massive cock, I saw him saw a chick in half at kick ons a few weeks back" = Not racist.

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Danny said:

Racism is systemic, top down, if you are white and live in/grew up in Britain/European colonial power then you will naturally be racist because you have grown up in a system that has groomed you to act and think in a certain way to benefit it, even if you believe yourself to be not racist. Hence the discussion around white privilege.t

This kind of thinking is how you get people saying racist shit while they're black saying shit about people from the Middle East and if you call them out on it they'll say things like "I'm black, I can't be racist." That in itself is pretty dangerous for dealing with racism in society. 

I think racism's pretty simple. Say or do anything that discriminates against people against other races and... you've done something racist.  Doesn't matter what skin colour you are or aren't.

[Cicero]

For it to be racist, there has to be implications of superiority. 

Based on that alone, I find the whole ‘big dick’ argument ridiculous. 

[Danny]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

This kind of thinking is how you get people saying racist shit while they're black saying shit about people from the Middle East and if you call them out on it they'll say things like "I'm black, I can't be racist." That in itself is pretty dangerous for dealing with racism in society. 

I think racism's pretty simple. Say or do anything that discriminates against people against other races and... you've done something racist.  Doesn't matter what skin colour you are or aren't.

You can be black and contribute towards systemic racism of other black people or people of other ethnicities, the character Samuel L Jackson played in Django being a an example...doesn’t really conflict with the view point I posted imo.

[Danny]

28 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Sorry the grand arbiter of racism must not be 'educated on racism' enough for his lordship. Racism is racially charged terms or behaviour used to belittle or discriminate against people of other races. 
"My black friend has a massive cock, I saw him saw a chick in half at kick ons a few weeks back" = Not racist.

That’s a bit of a weird statement to come out with tbh, if your friend is black and has a massive cock there is quite obviously no harm in acknowledging that. Holding an entire race of people to a stereotype that has long been used to objectify black men is racist.

Im happy to have a sensible debate with you, no idea why you waded in being a dickhead and then got upset because I responded to you in the way you spoke to me 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

That’s a bit of a weird statement to come out with tbh, if your friend is black and has a massive cock there is quite obviously no harm in acknowledging that. Holding an entire race of people to a stereotype that has long been used to objectify black men is racist.

Im happy to have a sensible debate with you, no idea why you waded in being a dickhead and then got upset because I responded to you in the way you spoke to me 

That is how Australians talk

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Lol I'm absolutely not upset hahahaha

[Dan+]

Is the sheer acknowledgement, or realisation of somebody's race a degree of racism? I'd argue it probably is. Therefore everyone is racist to some degree.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

4 hours ago, Dan said:

Is the sheer acknowledgement, or realisation of somebody's race a degree of racism? I'd argue it probably is. Therefore everyone is racist to some degree.

And that quackery is what's fucked up with peoples mindset in modern society. Are you for fucking real?

*See's Asian dude* Damn gotta self flagellate, I'm a dirty fucking racist for seeing him as Asian.  

Genuinely fucked in the head

[Dan+]

6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

And that quackery is what's fucked up with peoples mindset in modern society. Are you for fucking real?

*See's Asian dude* Damn gotta self flagellate, I'm a dirty fucking racist for seeing him as Asian.  

Genuinely fucked in the head

Nope. I'm not at all. That's what I mean though - that's the ridiculous levels we're going down at times.

[Cicero]

Why can’t everyone be more like the Wayans bros 

[Harry]

23 hours ago, Cicero said:

For it to be racist, there has to be implications of superiority. 

Based on that alone, I find the whole ‘big dick’ argument ridiculous. 

Test case for your hypothesis:

"You are a Jew so you must be rich?"

Not racist?

[Harry]

23 hours ago, Danny said:

That’s a bit of a weird statement to come out with tbh, if your friend is black and has a massive cock there is quite obviously no harm in acknowledging that. Holding an entire race of people to a stereotype that has long been used to objectify black men is racist.

Im happy to have a sensible debate with you, no idea why you waded in being a dickhead and then got upset because I responded to you in the way you spoke to me 

The main point I differ with you is your use of racism as a catch all term encompassing basically everything to with race.

[DeadLinesman]

On 04/03/2020 at 13:48, Danny said:

Racism is systemic, top down, if you are white and live in/grew up in Britain/European colonial power then you will naturally be racist because you have grown up in a system that has groomed you to act and think in a certain way to benefit it, even if you believe yourself to be not racist.

Bit racist that.

[Cicero]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

Test case for your hypothesis:

"You are a Jew so you must be rich?"

Not racist?

No. That’s generalising?

[Harry]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

No. That’s generalising?

I can't agree. Given the sensitive history around the great Jewish conspiracy I think most Jewish people would find that pretty offensive and consider it racist.

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I can't agree. Given the sensitive history around the great Jewish conspiracy I think most Jewish people would find that pretty offensive and consider it racist.

Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. 

Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. 

Such a dangerous precedent

 

[Dan+]

27 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. 

Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. 

Such a dangerous precedent

Precisely. My post earlier was badly worded but I ultimately think where do you actually draw the line?

I do genuinely believe everyone is racist to varying degrees. It's kind of natural.

[Dr. Gonzo]

34 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. 

Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. 

Such a dangerous precedent

 

I'm not so sure. When you make sweeping generalisations of a race or ethnicity based on stereotyping (which in this example is playing on the Jew wealth hoarding stereotype), I think that using the stereotype to make a generalisation is pretty racist.

I think if you told a Jew that you thought they were rich just because they were Jewish, they'd probably think "he's an anti-Semite."

[Devil-Dick Willie]

The stereotype with jews is actually that they're good with money, not necessarily rich.

"You're a jew so can you do my taxes" Is more appropriate here, the grand arbiter decrees.
 

It airs regularly on morning TV. It isn't racist the grand arbiter decrees. However, he can see how it would be socially inappropriate at times.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. 

Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. 

Such a dangerous precedent

 

I agree with that generally but disagree in the case of the Jewish example where the generalisation relates to or stokes the historical paranoia and fear driven behind a belief that Jews were all rich because they were in on something and slowly taking over the world. This generalisation was one of the main contributing factors to the biggest genocide in modern history and therefore is understandably more sensitive than the average.