Danny Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, True Blue said: Just do the Kiko Casilla shirt for banter, if Liverpool did it then so can Leeds. Saying all this i hate racists, would you say having a racist remark make you a racist? I know we are all angels and never done anything wrong, but does Kiko hate colored people? What he did was wrong and punishment is fair, but is he really a racist? If you’re going that deep the issue isn’t that he’s racist but that he’s racially abused somebody. Racism is systemic, top down, if you are white and live in/grew up in Britain/European colonial power then you will naturally be racist because you have grown up in a system that has groomed you to act and think in a certain way to benefit it, even if you believe yourself to be not racist. Hence the discussion around white privilege. Racism is not just saying the n word or p word but dogwhistling and microaggressions too, singing about a black footballers penis size is racist because it reduces them to a stereotype that was used to degrade them. But unless you’re educated on racism you’ll just think “I’m just saying he had a big dick, what’s wrong with that? The missus would love it if I had a big dick wink wink hint hint nudge nudge”. The problem with racism in football is it is weaponised in three ways, the first is racist abuse towards black players, the second is to use it as a tool to beat another club with (Chelsea) to make out your own club/yourself doesn’t have any issues with systemic racism which is bullshit and thirdly it is weaponised through class warfare. Rugby types and people who don’t watch football will go “yeah but it’s so racist...football fans this, football fans that” yet the reason racism is so openly(key word in class based racism) prevelant in football is because football is the most inclusive sport in the country. It attracts people from all walks of life so the confusion then is that football is racist (though the institutions are through poor disciplinary action re:racism and lack of opportunities for black and brown players as coaches/managers) rather than society is racist. From a growth perspective Kiko is not wrong because he had the thought that the black player was an n word, that has been ingrained in him by his wider society. He was wrong because he did not challenge the thought and reject, instead he accepted it as part of his vocabulary and communication with another human. And that’s not to excuse racism as “it’s OK, we was brainwashed into it”, it’s bad but for most people indigenous to or physically similar to a European colonial power the starting point of childhood into adolescence is being indoctrinated into systemic bigotry The irony is you will generally find black and brown people are more forgiving of people trying to rid themselves of racist ideologies than liberal white people are who’ve no emotional attachment to the oppressive side of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 The world would be much simpler without doublethink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Danny said: Racism is not just saying the n word or p word but dogwhistling and microaggressions too, singing about a black footballers penis size is racist because it reduces them to a stereotype that was used to degrade them. But unless you’re educated on racism you’ll just think “I’m just saying he had a big dick, what’s wrong with that? The missus would love it if I had a big dick wink wink hint hint nudge nudge”. Ah yes, having a big cock. The most degrading thing of all 7 hours ago, Danny said: The irony is you will generally find black and brown people are more forgiving of people trying to rid themselves of racist ideologies than liberal white people are who’ve no emotional attachment to the oppressive side of it Like you mr no nut November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Ah yes, having a big cock. The most degrading thing of all Like you mr no nut November. Missing the point in one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Danny said: Missing the point in one Sorry the grand arbiter of racism must not be 'educated on racism' enough for his lordship. Racism is racially charged terms or behaviour used to belittle or discriminate against people of other races. "My black friend has a massive cock, I saw him saw a chick in half at kick ons a few weeks back" = Not racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Danny said: Racism is systemic, top down, if you are white and live in/grew up in Britain/European colonial power then you will naturally be racist because you have grown up in a system that has groomed you to act and think in a certain way to benefit it, even if you believe yourself to be not racist. Hence the discussion around white privilege.t This kind of thinking is how you get people saying racist shit while they're black saying shit about people from the Middle East and if you call them out on it they'll say things like "I'm black, I can't be racist." That in itself is pretty dangerous for dealing with racism in society. I think racism's pretty simple. Say or do anything that discriminates against people against other races and... you've done something racist. Doesn't matter what skin colour you are or aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 For it to be racist, there has to be implications of superiority. Based on that alone, I find the whole ‘big dick’ argument ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: This kind of thinking is how you get people saying racist shit while they're black saying shit about people from the Middle East and if you call them out on it they'll say things like "I'm black, I can't be racist." That in itself is pretty dangerous for dealing with racism in society. I think racism's pretty simple. Say or do anything that discriminates against people against other races and... you've done something racist. Doesn't matter what skin colour you are or aren't. You can be black and contribute towards systemic racism of other black people or people of other ethnicities, the character Samuel L Jackson played in Django being a an example...doesn’t really conflict with the view point I posted imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: Sorry the grand arbiter of racism must not be 'educated on racism' enough for his lordship. Racism is racially charged terms or behaviour used to belittle or discriminate against people of other races. "My black friend has a massive cock, I saw him saw a chick in half at kick ons a few weeks back" = Not racist. That’s a bit of a weird statement to come out with tbh, if your friend is black and has a massive cock there is quite obviously no harm in acknowledging that. Holding an entire race of people to a stereotype that has long been used to objectify black men is racist. Im happy to have a sensible debate with you, no idea why you waded in being a dickhead and then got upset because I responded to you in the way you spoke to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Danny said: That’s a bit of a weird statement to come out with tbh, if your friend is black and has a massive cock there is quite obviously no harm in acknowledging that. Holding an entire race of people to a stereotype that has long been used to objectify black men is racist. Im happy to have a sensible debate with you, no idea why you waded in being a dickhead and then got upset because I responded to you in the way you spoke to me That is how Australians talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Lol I'm absolutely not upset hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted March 5, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted March 5, 2020 Is the sheer acknowledgement, or realisation of somebody's race a degree of racism? I'd argue it probably is. Therefore everyone is racist to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Dan said: Is the sheer acknowledgement, or realisation of somebody's race a degree of racism? I'd argue it probably is. Therefore everyone is racist to some degree. And that quackery is what's fucked up with peoples mindset in modern society. Are you for fucking real? *See's Asian dude* Damn gotta self flagellate, I'm a dirty fucking racist for seeing him as Asian. Genuinely fucked in the head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted March 5, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said: And that quackery is what's fucked up with peoples mindset in modern society. Are you for fucking real? *See's Asian dude* Damn gotta self flagellate, I'm a dirty fucking racist for seeing him as Asian. Genuinely fucked in the head Nope. I'm not at all. That's what I mean though - that's the ridiculous levels we're going down at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Why can’t everyone be more like the Wayans bros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 23 hours ago, Cicero said: For it to be racist, there has to be implications of superiority. Based on that alone, I find the whole ‘big dick’ argument ridiculous. Test case for your hypothesis: "You are a Jew so you must be rich?" Not racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 23 hours ago, Danny said: That’s a bit of a weird statement to come out with tbh, if your friend is black and has a massive cock there is quite obviously no harm in acknowledging that. Holding an entire race of people to a stereotype that has long been used to objectify black men is racist. Im happy to have a sensible debate with you, no idea why you waded in being a dickhead and then got upset because I responded to you in the way you spoke to me The main point I differ with you is your use of racism as a catch all term encompassing basically everything to with race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 On 04/03/2020 at 13:48, Danny said: Racism is systemic, top down, if you are white and live in/grew up in Britain/European colonial power then you will naturally be racist because you have grown up in a system that has groomed you to act and think in a certain way to benefit it, even if you believe yourself to be not racist. Bit racist that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, Harry said: Test case for your hypothesis: "You are a Jew so you must be rich?" Not racist? No. That’s generalising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Cicero said: No. That’s generalising? I can't agree. Given the sensitive history around the great Jewish conspiracy I think most Jewish people would find that pretty offensive and consider it racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Harry said: I can't agree. Given the sensitive history around the great Jewish conspiracy I think most Jewish people would find that pretty offensive and consider it racist. Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. Such a dangerous precedent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ Posted March 5, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted March 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, Cicero said: Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. Such a dangerous precedent Precisely. My post earlier was badly worded but I ultimately think where do you actually draw the line? I do genuinely believe everyone is racist to varying degrees. It's kind of natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Cicero said: Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. Such a dangerous precedent I'm not so sure. When you make sweeping generalisations of a race or ethnicity based on stereotyping (which in this example is playing on the Jew wealth hoarding stereotype), I think that using the stereotype to make a generalisation is pretty racist. I think if you told a Jew that you thought they were rich just because they were Jewish, they'd probably think "he's an anti-Semite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 The stereotype with jews is actually that they're good with money, not necessarily rich. "You're a jew so can you do my taxes" Is more appropriate here, the grand arbiter decrees. It airs regularly on morning TV. It isn't racist the grand arbiter decrees. However, he can see how it would be socially inappropriate at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Cicero said: Again, the basic definition of racism is implying the race in question is inferior. Being upset because someone was naive enough to make a generalisation about a whole race shouldn’t automatically be deemed as ‘racist’. Such a dangerous precedent I agree with that generally but disagree in the case of the Jewish example where the generalisation relates to or stokes the historical paranoia and fear driven behind a belief that Jews were all rich because they were in on something and slowly taking over the world. This generalisation was one of the main contributing factors to the biggest genocide in modern history and therefore is understandably more sensitive than the average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.