Chelsea Discussion

[Cicero]

James out for a substantial period and needs surgery. 
 

One step forward. Two steps back. Always. 

[Cicero]

On 19/12/2020 at 15:02, Cicero said:

James out for a substantial period and needs surgery. 
 

One step forward. Two steps back. Always. 

Looks like he doesn't need surgery but will be out for a few weeks. Some fluid built up to his knee 

 

[Bluewolf]

He is going to be a big loss for us... One of our stand out performers so far this season

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Bluewolf said:

He is going to be a big loss for us... One of our stand out performers so far this season

I’d say our pots so far

[The Artful Dodger]

Only just seen the Villa goal, Christ it’s another shocker from Mendy. Another new keeper on the cards in January or will they wait until summer?

[Cicero]

Mendy is seriously the least of our concerns. 

Christensen however needs to be binned at the earliest convenience. Genuinely lost track of how many points we dropped due to his individual mistakes. And to think he is being favored over Tomori. Another baffling decision by Lampard. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Cicero

[carefreeluke]

For me personally, it would have to be pretty bad for Lampard to get sacked, a lot worse than now and if I were in charge, I'd be giving him three years, so another season after this one and then see where we're at. The recent form is frustrating but the way this league is going a string of good results would probably put us right back up there.

Lampard’s biggest problem is getting any consistency going. Looking back, any bad run of form resulted in Lampard changing things. We’ve seen changes to different shapes, 3 at the back, 4/3/3 or 4/2/3/1 variants, these system changes were often combined with new players coming in, squad players that hadn’t played much, coming in with a new system to give us fresh impetus to get going again. Is that sustainable though?

I’ve always said on here that after a while, opposing teams at this level clock onto playing patterns, themes and styles and as a season passes, this makes matches more difficult. I saw someone say on social media the other day, that if we think our current attacks are predictable and cross, cross, cross. What must the scouting networks and coaches of other Premier League teams see?

What’s the answer then? Does Lampard need to change it again? No. For me, what’s more important is finding that fresh impetus with the same system. Just because the opposition knows your identity and playing style, it doesn’t mean you can’t keep evolving and improving that style and keep the players ticking over. You can try different things within that system, new moves, use different players, look at the opposition’s weaknesses etc.

Firstly, tactically on paper Lampard could improve some selections within the system. Werner left-wing? Kovacic playing the attacking midfield role? We’ve seen also seen too much of Kovacic, Jorginho and Kanté playing together and as I’ve said before that is never a good thing. The two attacking people midfielders need to be able to play at pace, run at people, play between the lines, pick a pass, take a shot, Havertz and Mount can do a lot of that but Kanté and Kovacic can’t. Why play them there then? For me, there’s always a direct correlation between the amount Kanté, Kovacic and Jorginho play together and the passiveness and predictability in our football.

Tactically, those personnel choices are alarm bells for me however more importantly fresh impetus can be given in other ways, man-management, motivation, squad management, better analysis of the opposition etc, there are a million ways it can be done and that’s why Klopp is such a good manager for example. A lot of people are criticising Lampard tactically at the moment but more important perhaps is Lampard’s management of the players. Players in wrong positions, Werner playing every minute of every single game in a position that’s more demanding, his failure to use certain players that he sweeps aside for too long, last season the constant changing of the centre backs, Mount’s mismanagement with position and game time. If you want to play two attacking midfield players, why the hell is Barkley out on loan? Why can’t some of the youth players be used more when we’re missing players in certain positions? His stint at Chelsea so far has had a lot of those decisions, he simply isn’t getting the best out of some of these players because at times he mismanages them. It’s not just Werner and Mount, there are other significant examples.

For me, our football goes stale, not always because it’s a tactical thing, it’s the fact that the players are mismanaged as well and it’s a lot more difficult to get that fresh impetus and to keep players ticking over when that happens.

[Cicero]

He was given 3 years to challenge for the title and Champions League. We are now 1.5 years into his management and we have seem to gone backwards, let alone being anywhere close to challenge for those two. 

[carefreeluke]

13 minutes ago, Cicero said:

He was given 3 years to challenge for the title and Champions League. We are now 1.5 years into his management and we have seem to gone backwards, let alone being anywhere close to challenge for those two. 

We've been up and down, up and down. Next month we might go on a run again. I'd judge him come the end of the season.

I remember when Sarri introduced Hudson-Odoi in the team towards the end of his season in charge, whether it was down to board and fan pressure, with the Bayern talks going on in the background, who knows but my point is that his introduction to the team lifted the team, it gave the opposition something else to think about, something new and we looked a lot better for it. For me, Lampard, more than anything, needs to find a way of getting that fresh impetus into the team on a more regular basis and as I said that it can be done in different ways, not just by changing players here and there. Above all, he needs to start putting players in the right positions to complement this system and then find the right formulas to keep the players on form and ticking over, which you could say are the nuts and bolts of being a successful manager.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

3 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

We've been up and down, up and down. Next month we might go on a run again. I'd judge him come the end of the season.

I remember when Sarri introduced Hudson-Odoi in the team towards the end of his season in charge, whether it was down to board and fan pressure, with the Bayern talks going on in the background, who knows but my point is that his introduction to the team lifted the team, it gave the opposition something else to think about, something new and we looked a lot better for it. For me, Lampard, more than anything, needs to find a way of getting that fresh impetus into the team on a more regular basis and as I said that it can be done in different ways, not just by changing players here and there. Above all though, he needs to start putting players in the right positions to complement this system.

 

I'd say we've been more down this season. We haven't beaten anyone above us, yet you think we can finish Top 4?

From what I have seen, I don't think Lampard is capable of creating that fresh impetus into the team. He's making things worse. To a point where I truly believe the cohesion we saw last season was down to Jody and his understanding with our youth players. 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Cicero

[carefreeluke]

Whether he's capable of it who knows, for me, you give a manager a period of time and then judge him after that. If it doesn't work out, you take it on the chin and move on to the next one but there should always be some sort of timeframe you give them, no matter how bad things get. Don't get me wrong though sometimes things are just too bad or get toxic and that change needs to happen earlier but in general, managers, in my opinion,  in most cases, deserve more time.

Edited December 30, 2020 by carefreeluke

[The Artful Dodger]

Actually agree with Carefreeluke. I know I've made some remarks about Lampard but surely he, if any manager ever at Chelsea is, is going to get proper time to build something. I assume the idea is to build an identity that can live on from manager to manager, which is something Chelsea have lacked really. Obviously your ruthless acquisition of trophies has meant it didn't really matter but I think that's what Abramovich has sought here, he's been a known admirer of managers like Guardiola who build a definitive and enjoyable style. I'm not sure Lampard is that man, but given his close affinity with the club it would seem he'd be the one to try and build it. I think Abramovich, and many of the fans, would deal with a couple of trophyless seasons if you end up building something like Klopp's Liverpool. Which is not only successful but enjoyable to watch and has that real connection with the fans.

[carefreeluke]

When was the last time you saw us get the ball into the striker's feet by the way? One of the few times we did it against Villa, it resulted in a goal. We're not playing in between the lines as much as we used to,  preferring to go sideways which is what happens when you see too much of Kovacic, Jorginho, and Kanté together. We need to get Mount and Havertz more involved in those forward areas, Ziyech has been a miss but given the money we've spent, you can't complain too much about his absence. The midfield balance at the moment isn't great, for me, it was the best thing about our play earlier in the season, with Mount and Havertz heavily involved. We also were playing at a much better tempo. Why isn't the midfield balance great now? Lampard's management. Certain players on loan and players in wrong positions etc.

Look at our first goal. A quick ball into Giroud's feet between the lines, we've stopped doing that as much.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

17 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Whether he's capable of it who knows, for me, you give a manager a period of time and then judge him after that. If it doesn't work out, you take it on the chin and move on to the next one but there should always be some sort of timeframe you give them, no matter how bad things get. Don't get me wrong though sometimes things are just too bad or get toxic and that change needs to happen earlier but in general, managers, in my opinion,  in most cases, deserve more time.

That's the thing. 

Several months back I posted a link that presented a financial analysis of our spending last summer. Everything has been amortized to comply with FFP for the fiscal the year, but a lot is dependent on finishing Top 4. Roman is taking a massive risk and should we fail to get Top 4, or even be out of the running half way through the season, would have him lose several millions. 

The goal was to comfortably finish Top 4, or at the very least see continuous improvement. At this point, we look so far from seeing either. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Cicero

[Rick]

I’m failing to see a hint of any certain style of play that Lampard is meant to be bringing to this Chelsea team. Granted, I don’t watch them anywhere near as much as anybody here but when I do watch ive seen two or three different approaches per game. Starting with Werner up front, hitting balls in behind the defence for him then switched up to Giroud and Chilwell just banging crosses into him. Werner is good enough to have an impact every game, same goes for Havertz. Lampard doesn’t know what he’s doing and it’s the individual brilliant of the players that have gotten him this far, I just don’t rate him at all. 

[Cicero]

Just now, Rick said:

I’m failing to see a hint of any certain style of play that Lampard is meant to be bringing to this Chelsea team. Granted, I don’t watch them anywhere near as much as anybody here but when I do watch ive seen two or three different approaches per game. Starting with Werner up front, hitting balls in behind the defence for him then switched up to Giroud and Chilwell just banging crosses into him. Werner is good enough to have an impact every game, same goes for Havertz. Lampard doesn’t know what he’s doing and it’s the individual brilliant of the players that have gotten him this far, I just don’t rate him at all. 

It genuinely started with the game against you lot. 

Sitting back and playing on the counter, with Havertz as our focal point up top? At the very least have Giroud? We tried playing out of a press with zero assistance up top for nearly 70 minutes until Lampard made a change.  Add to the fact Christensen, the utter liability, continues to get game time over Tomori, is the primary cause we were out of the running with his foolish tackle on Mane. 

This was the first, of a cumulation of questionable game management decisions we have seen from Lampard this season. 

[Rick]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It genuinely started with the game against you lot. 

Sitting back and playing on the counter, with Havertz as our focal point up top? At the very least have Giroud? We tried playing out of a press with zero assistance up top for nearly 70 minutes until Lampard made a change.  Add to the fact Christensen, the utter liability, continues to get game time over Tomori, is the primary cause we were out of the running with his foolish tackle on Mane. 

This was the first, of a cumulation of questionable game management decisions we have seen from Lampard this season. 

Yeah that was madness, even though I was obviously enjoying it. Giroud up top to hold the ball and have Werner just off him ready to sprint in behind from through balls. But no, you stick a 19 year old lad up top, and expect him to get past our defence on his own? 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Rick

[Cicero]

11 minutes ago, Rick said:

Yeah that was madness, even though I was obviously enjoying it. Giroud up top to hold the ball and have Werner just off him ready to sprint in behind from through balls. But no, you stick a 19 year old lad up top, and expect him to get past our defence on his own? 

Right. 

Even when Lampard has a game plan, he executes wrong 

[Cicero]

Brendan Rodgers and Thomas Tuchel favorites to replace Frank Lampard. 

[carefreeluke]

Pulisic hasn't been all that since returning either, not helped by the fact that he's been used a lot on the right. 

I would like to see Hudson-Odoi used more as well. If Ziyech isn't fit, why not put Hudson-Odoi on the right and Pulisic on the left? Too more natural wingers? For something different? I think Lampard's intention has always been to use the full-backs as the source of width but why not both? Our play at the moment is like a sponge, get the ball wide, striker, Werner, Mount, Havertz in and around the box, cross it, lose it, counter-press, win the ball back and go again. At least Hudson-Odoi and Pulisic can run at people and take players out the game.

What's the obsession with going wide as well? Why can't we get the ball into the striker's feet and get the attacking midfielders on the ball more between the lines? When was the last time you saw us play off the striker? Havertz hasn't been as good as expected partly because we don't give him the ball enough in forward areas, our play a lot of the time neglects those attacking midfielders and prefers other avenues. 

Why do you think James and Chilwell have been our best players this season? The system is built for them really, we've been relatively solid defensively and in attack our favourite avenue is getting the ball wide which we're very successful at doing. Chilwell and James are our Trent and Robertson, I see Lampard's idea with getting the ball wide, something similar to how Liverpool play but we need more variation.

@True Blue @The Liquidator

Hope you're well lads by the way. Be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Edited January 8, 2021 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

Lack of transitional play through the middle is my biggest concern. Salah and Bruno Fernandes have played more through balls than our entire team. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 30/12/2020 at 06:09, Cicero said:

Several months back I posted a link that presented a financial analysis of our spending last summer. Everything has been amortized to comply with FFP for the fiscal the year, but a lot is dependent on finishing Top 4. Roman is taking a massive risk and should we fail to get Top 4, or even be out of the running half way through the season, would have him lose several millions. 

He's worth somewhere between 14-20 billion, I doubt he gives a shit about losing a few millions if he truly wants a long-term change of culture at Chelsea.

I don't know if Lampard is the man for that or not, but it's a big change from the way Chelsea have normally operated so you can't expect things to change overnight.

But I do think there's something very wrong with the way Chelsea have been approaching their buildup this season. They look like a team with a lot of talent but not many ideas.

[carefreeluke]

6 hours ago, Cicero said:

Lack of transitional play through the middle is my biggest concern. Salah and Bruno Fernandes have played more through balls than our entire team. 

We need more attacking variation in general really.  

If we're not able to create enough, it's just going to allow opponents to gain confidence in games and cause us more problems defensively. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He's worth somewhere between 14-20 billion, I doubt he gives a shit about losing a few millions if he truly wants a long-term change of culture at Chelsea.

I don't know if Lampard is the man for that or not, but it's a big change from the way Chelsea have normally operated so you can't expect things to change overnight.

But I do think there's something very wrong with the way Chelsea have been approaching their buildup this season. They look like a team with a lot of talent but not many ideas.

He's a billionaire, but lets be real. If he's reporting a financial loss exceeding 100 million, he's going to be looking directly at Lampard. Top 4 and CL advancement brings in so much revenue. Failure to do both will have Lampard gone. 

[LFCMadLad]

15 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

We need more attacking variation in general really.  

If we're not able to create enough, it's just going to allow opponents to gain confidence in games and cause us more problems defensively. 

If you believe that Chelsea don't have enough attacking options... then I think its your marbles you need to be looking for mate.