Chelsea Discussion

[The Liquidator]

With nothing being posted in here since the loss at the weekend, I hope this means you are all suffering with the hurt of this seasons failures.

This manager has ruined his legacy at the club and is proving to be pretty pathetic. The quicker he is shown the door the better, although from what I have been told we can expect both parties to play Chicken into the summer.

We shall see

[Cicero]

Sacking Conte would cost the club 9 million. 

However with our main objective now gone, does the board really think we can win the FA Cup with the way things are?

 

 

We lost our dominating record against Arsenal

We lost our home record against Spurs

We lost our record of Messi failing to score against us. 

Conte the record breaker. 

[The Liquidator]

Watched another of our Youth teams win the first leg of the FA Youth cup semi final tonight and enjoyed their 3-0 win at Birmingham. Chelsea TV were on top form with tributes from many of our family for Ray and the kids put on a great show with a great performance.

Ray would have been proud.

 

[RandoEFC+]

I hope when Conte inevitably leaves that he's still remembered for the positive side of his time at Chelsea. I can't remember seeing anything quite like what happened last season with a bold formation change like the wing back formation he used turned a clubs season around and saw them romp to a title like that. Doesn't seem like a cunt either aside from the usual moaning about referees that comes from other top managers.

[carefreeluke]

Our pressing game only really exists immediately after we lose the ball in attack in order to stop the other team countering us, it's very rare we're actually countered on unless of course the circumstances in the game require us to be more open and push more men forward. We do very well in this situation and it's something I noticed from Conte's first ever game in the Premier League.

This image however is the bane of my life:

We adopt this shape a lot and this is what I like to call the 'Conte shell'.

Dembélé, has all the time in the world on the ball, taking up a position which many midfielders have found themselves in against us under Conte. We've made Xhaka look a lot better than he is on a good few occasions when he's took up this position. Kanté and Fabregas cannot engage the ball as it leaves space in between the lines and it's also exactly what the player with the ball would want for our two central midfielders to be drawn out. Willian and Hazard aren't central enough and sometimes you'll see our striker look to come in and help out and press the ball, this for me is normally a reaction to seeing the amount of time this particular midfielder from the opposition gets on the ball and it has a air of desperation about it on our part. We get overcrowded and perhaps it's not necessarily the fact that we lack a pressing game or the players lack the will to press when we adopt this specific shape during a game but rather the fact that the shape itself makes it awkward for the players to engage. This often leads to the periods of passivity which we have been watching a lot of this season and the previous campaign as well.

Using the example above, it's very difficult for Spurs to play in between the lines here, very difficult. It's a problem if the opposition is outnumbering you in one part of the field but it depends on how well you manage that. Furthermore, if the opposition has a numerical advantage over you in one part of the field, this can only mean you'll typically have a numerical advantage over them in another part. Managing these advantages is key to football. We evidently have a numerical advantage in defence here and hence we are very good at snuffing out any danger in between the lines.

Our problem at the moment is when we win the ball, it's become very difficult for us to get out, in 90% of cases it will be either Kanté, Fabregas or the defenders winning us the ball and then the opposition will press immediately, making the pitch seem very small. They know our exit routes and you can see from the shape above that we have to go from being very condensed to spreading out at pace, like squeezing a sponge ball. When we win the ball, Hazard, Morata, Willian and the full backs are like grey hounds, it's a race against the other team's press, a race the opposition are winning more and more. The problem is that after winning the ball our players have to be very precise, quick and intelligent at playing out under pressure but teams know our exit routes and we are also doing this from a deep position and have a long way to travel up the pitch. We may get out at times against the better teams, maybe we do very well on the ball or the opposition makes a mistake or is slow to press for example but counters are becoming a rarer occurrence for us as teams often stop us at source and block the exits so to speak. Not forgetting a lot of our players aren't the most comfortable on the ball either. Ultimately because it's difficult for us to get out due to the opposition's press after we win the ball, the opponent can control a lot of the match for long periods. The higher quality the opposition, the longer they can obtain control.

Finally, the reality is the opposition don't actually create an awful lot against us, using the Barcelona game as an example. We have the numerical advantage in defence as mentioned above. As you can see in the screenshot it's very difficult for the opposition to play in between the lines which is the most dangerous area in football. Sometimes the opposition's play is very good and they cut us open, not much you can do about that but this is rare. The problem however we have is that because we adopt this shape and get stuck in it for such long periods, tiredness sets in. The opposition knock and knock on the door and it's difficult to keep the concentration, knock, knock, knock. Hence why we've seen a lot of mistakes this season from our players.

[Cicero]

That City game will give me nightmares. Should of been sacked on  the spot

Edited April 5, 2018 by Cicero

[carefreeluke]

5 minutes ago, Cicero said:

That City game will give me nightmares. Should of been sacked on  the spot

Barca game as well was poor, I just can't see how we played well that game especially tactically.

[True Blue]

Games that we were terrible in this season

Chelsea vs Burnley 2-3

Chelsea vs City 0-1

Roma vs Chelsea 3-0

Chelsea vs Bournemouth 0-3

Watford vs Chelsea 4-1

City vs Chelsea 1-0 (probably the worst)

Chelsea vs Spurs 1-3

I would add Barcelona 3-0 but we really didn't do bad in that game, not including the result. We already booked 9 defeats this season, which is for a defending champion a disaster. Then again we have done it before even in a worse scenario. I feel this team apart from a few individuals feels like they don't need to be their best and that the fans can accept any result. Key for us losing the top four, apart from our shit league form is the back to back defeats against Bournemouth and Watford who which we should easily win no disrespect meant. In the last seven league games we managed to lose five, won against WBA who are the worst team in the league, and barely managed to defeat Palace. Okay the board didn't give Conte the players he wanted but to concede seven against lower table teams is unacceptable. How would that go down with Jose or Pep? Not well i guess. Conte gave up on us in the 2017, should have been the bigger man and walked save himself further problems. Changing a manager now wouldn't give us a boost as these players have no mentality and accept defeats with ease. The 2015-16 season was piss and we lost a lot of games but in many of the defeats we were just unlucky, this time around we are just piss poor. 

 

[Cicero]

Forgot the Palace defeat and West Ham defeat. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Cicero

[bozziovai]

as an outsider.      why hasn't the Chelsea Board learned something after that 2nd season of Jose ??   It was a complete breakdown of everything.    Conte came in to iron out everything and positively won the league in his first season, granting he has no other important games like the UCL to deal with.  but still, winning the EPL should have laid the foundation of Conte's reign, but right now all we're hearing and seeing are all negative news; from Conte not satisfied with the spendings in the transfer market, to Cortious wanking too much about going back to spain and all this Hazard nonsense .....

[Cicero]

2 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

as an outsider.      why hasn't the Chelsea Board learned something after that 2nd season of Jose ??   It was a complete breakdown of everything.    Conte came in to iron out everything and positively won the league in his first season, granting he has no other important games like the UCL to deal with.  but still, winning the EPL should have laid the foundation of Conte's reign, but right now all we're hearing and seeing are all negative news; from Conte not satisfied with the spendings in the transfer market, to Cortious wanking too much about going back to spain and all this Hazard nonsense .....

And there lies the biggest mystery. 

From buying injured and average players, to waiting on deadline day to buy 1 full back in a system that is heavily dependent on them.  An average full back I may add to which we already have two average full backs in Alonso and Moses. 

On a coaching standpoint, Conte did as much as he could, hence us being 3rd in January. After that he just couldn't be arsed, and we are now 8 points off of 5th. This is what the team truly is without Conte. 

 

[bozziovai]

8 minutes ago, Cicero said:

And there lies the biggest mystery. 

From buying injured and average players, to waiting on deadline day to buy 1 full back in a system that is heavily dependent on them.  An average full back I may add to which we already have two average full backs in Alonso and Moses. 

On a coaching standpoint, Conte did as much as he could, hence us being 3rd in January. After that he just couldn't be arsed, and we are now 8 points off of 5th. This is what the team truly is without Conte. 

 

 

i can only guess that the source of Conte's disappointment and disagreement with the Board is maybe just maybe he was promised that he'll have full control of his team, who he wants out and who he wants to take in but the Board wasn't able to deliver on their promise.

[The Liquidator]

Lots of intelligence being shown since Luke's excellent posting, but I do feel nobody has picked up on the main difference of our team last season compared to this.

Luke's point on us having difficulty moving the ball quickly when we win the ball is answered pretty much by Frank each time he talks about our counter attacking over the period of 10+ years. He always said when we got the ball and there was no immediate outlet, the ball hit at Drogba became a key weapon. When Jose returned and Drogba was no longer that force, he fixed it with Costa. Now for whatever reason, and you all know what I think the reason was he was let go, we have not been able to replace that target man who so much would drop from benefiting our team. I have always said any player signed from overseas gets a season to come to fruition. Morata has not shown consistency other than behaving like a child attracting Yellow cards like a fresh Turd attracts Flies, and even the most optimistic Chelsea fan must have doubts he will be better next season. The insistence of the manager playing our best player in a so called force Nine was pretty much the time Hazard lost all form, so not only has the manager fucked us over with Costa, he has managed to find a way to lose our best player most match days since Christmas. Hence, for my mind, we find ourselves in the biggest hole the club has been in since the arrival of Glenn Hoddle. Jose's bad season is said to be down to the players not playing for him. Whats Conte's excuse?

As much as I applauded how he turned around last season, for me this season is as far in the opposing direction he could have traveled. Some of his decisions in team selections & general leading the club in the eyes of the media MUST have other clubs thinking do they want a Manic Depressive in charge of their club when things don't go his way?

I would add, the names being put forward as new manager material, none catch my eye.

I strongly feel the need to bring it in house, someone who has the club running through his veins with help from others of the same.

Afterall, when it was last in the hands of one of our own, that Big Eared Trophy found its way to London for the 1st n only time.

I'll being going to the return FA Youth cup Semi Final and will meet up with a few who work for the club. It will be interesting to hear what they are prepared to share.

Edited April 5, 2018 by The Liquidator
Missed out a word,,,,,, or two :(

[The Liquidator]

Oh, some are comparing the increase in wages for Conte & no extension of contract being coupled in the same way as the club found themselves with Robbie after he won the CL.

I was told way back then, Jose was all set to return, but Robbie won the CL, got a two year contract and Jose stayed in Madrid for another year.

Someone I know who has often been right in the past has been saying all season our next manager was supposed to take over this season. Instead he is unemployed awaiting moving to London.

We shall see.

[Cicero]

8 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Oh, some are comparing the increase in wages for Conte & no extension of contract being coupled in the same way as the club found themselves with Robbie after he won the CL.

I was told way back then, Jose was all set to return, but Robbie won the CL, got a two year contract and Jose stayed in Madrid for another year.

Someone I know who has often been right in the past has been saying all season our next manager was supposed to take over this season. Instead he is unemployed awaiting moving to London.

We shall see.

So Enrique? 

[The Liquidator]

8 minutes ago, Cicero said:

So Enrique? 

No Mate ~ It's not hard to work out, it's someone who announced they would be taking a year out around the same time as Conte's wage increase.

 

[Cicero]

49 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

No Mate ~ It's not hard to work out, it's someone who announced they would be taking a year out around the same time as Conte's wage increase.

 

Who? Ancelotti?

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Cicero

[bozziovai]

Conte and Jose who's reputation is being tough and strong against any Board, even them are having trouble with Chelsea's Directors.      I can't think of any coach who can stand up and take it up to Roman.

[carefreeluke]

5 hours ago, The Liquidator said:

Lots of intelligence being shown since Luke's excellent posting, but I do feel nobody has picked up on the main difference of our team last season compared to this.

Luke's point on us having difficulty moving the ball quickly when we win the ball is answered pretty much by Frank each time he talks about our counter attacking over the period of 10+ years. He always said when we got the ball and there was no immediate outlet, the ball hit at Drogba became a key weapon. When Jose returned and Drogba was no longer that force, he fixed it with Costa. Now for whatever reason, and you all know what I think the reason was he was let go, we have not been able to replace that target man who so much would drop from benefiting our team. I have always said any player signed from overseas gets a season to come to fruition. Morata has not shown consistency other than behaving like a child attracting Yellow cards like a fresh Turd attracts Flies, and even the most optimistic Chelsea fan must have doubts he will be better next season. The insistence of the manager playing our best player in a so called force Nine was pretty much the time Hazard lost all form, so not only has the manager fucked us over with Costa, he has managed to find a way to lose our best player most match days since Christmas. Hence, for my mind, we find ourselves in the biggest hole the club has been in since the arrival of Glenn Hoddle. Jose's bad season is said to be down to the players not playing for him. Whats Conte's excuse?

As much as I applauded how he turned around last season, for me this season is as far in the opposing direction he could have traveled. Some of his decisions in team selections & general leading the club in the eyes of the media MUST have other clubs thinking do they want a Manic Depressive in charge of their club when things don't go his way?

I would add, the names being put forward as new manager material, none catch my eye.

I strongly feel the need to bring it in house, someone who has the club running through his veins with help from others of the same.

Afterall, when it was last in the hands of one of our own, that Big Eared Trophy found its way to London for the 1st n only time.

I'll being going to the return FA Youth cup Semi Final and will meet up with a few who work for the club. It will be interesting to hear what they are prepared to share.

I was going to make that point in the post above mate but it was late and I was tired. I also felt like I had banged on enough as well. 

We don't necessarily have to take up that shape for long periods either, we can be in that shape for a very small period during the game but it's Conte's insistence for the players to play out of that counter press from the opposition which can bring us problems and as you said we no longer have a big outlet at front which has worsened and limited our exit routes. A good chunk of games this season we've played Hazard up front as well, need I say more. I think this is also one of the reasons why Cahill has lost his place as Rudiger is more agile on the ball and Rudiger has better all-round composure as well.

Edited April 5, 2018 by carefreeluke

[The Liquidator]

15 hours ago, Cicero said:

Who? Ancelotti?

 

He first posted this name before the end of last season and took a lot of stick during a time Conte could do no wrong. Almost a year on, it don't sound so daft now.

Thomas Tuchel

However, there is news he maybe on his way to PSG because they cant get a conformation out of Conte.

We will see

[Cicero]

As great as it has been for Christensen to become a regular, we have missed David Luiz this season. 

His character and big game performances are dearly missed. 

[The Liquidator]

30 minutes ago, Cicero said:

As great as it has been for Christensen to become a regular, we have missed David Luiz this season. 

His character and big game performances are dearly missed. 

There are those at the club who will tell you Luiz injury is no worse than the one he played through last season.

I am sure I dont need to paint a picture to help work out why he isnt doing the same this season.

I dont want to flag up Christensen any more, I saw his weaknesses early and I am amazed how he isnt getting bad press, as Gary is, who has been asked to play the wrong side for him. The boy has so much potential it seems we have decided to go down the road of allowing him to learn his trade in our first team. Think back to other young players full of potential we have had on the books these past few years who all said the same as Christensen. "Play me or sell me" So we sold them, and they are now some of the very better players about after learning their trade in weaker club sides.

Haha, it seems no matter what we do of late, we get burnt either way.

I am sure he will turn out the classy player we all hope, just wish he could deal with a long ball hit over his head a little better.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, The Liquidator said:

There are those at the club who will tell you Luiz injury is no worse than the one he played through last season.

I am sure I dont need to paint a picture to help work out why he isnt doing the same this season.

I dont want to flag up Christensen any more, I saw his weaknesses early and I am amazed how he isnt getting bad press, as Gary is, who has been asked to play the wrong side for him. The boy has so much potential it seems we have decided to go down the road of allowing him to learn his trade in our first team. Think back to other young players full of potential we have had on the books these past few years who all said the same as Christensen. "Play me or sell me" So we sold them, and they are now some of the very better players about after learning their trade in weaker club sides.

Haha, it seems no matter what we do of late, we get burnt either way.

I am sure he will turn out the classy player we all hope, just wish he could deal with a long ball hit over his head a little better.

He's playing in a position where experience is incredibly important to having dominant and consistent performances. I think for a 21 year old CB in the top flight, he's doing a very good job and regardless of any mistakes - he's playing well beyond how I'd expect a pretty young player in a defense for a top side. Young defenders have it pretty rough at a top club, because mistakes are under a microscope - while young attacking players making mistakes don't make as many mistakes that are as costly (in terms of the likelihood of giving up a goal).

I think he's going to end up a very good defender, barring any horrible injury problems throwing his career off. But with young defenders, mistakes - and sometimes costly ones - are going to happen. It's part of their development, because they need to learn from those mistakes and how to prevent them and not let the criticism and pressure from making mistakes get to them.

A little patience and realism with young players, especially young defenders, is important if you actually want to see Chelsea develop players that make it into the first team. Otherwise you'll see shite like getting rid of players with promise to really kick on leave, go somewhere else and shine, and then be a reminder of what could have been.

[The Liquidator]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 been.

Thanks or your interest Gonzo, but your opinion on football or my club is not one I warrant as being needed to be read.

This is a "heads up" to save your time. 

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Thanks or your interest Gonzo, but your opinion on football or my club is not one I warrant as being needed to be read.

This is a "heads up" to save your time. 

Are you going to offer any more of your opinions on other clubs and players, for example Liverpool or more specifically Mo Salah?