American Politics Discussion

[Redcanuck]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The congressman that simply could not stop lying about everything was expelled from the house of representatives - has only happened 6 times before.

He has to face reelection next year, they should have just let his constituents decide.   Not sure what he was like as a congressman but you would have thought with his history he would have had to be the greatest congressman in history to be reelected.  He should have been working his socks of 24/7.

Have to think they have set a dangerous precedent,  expelling a politican for lying.  Could end up being a very empty place.

[Dr. Gonzo]

56 minutes ago, Redcanuck said:

He has to face reelection next year, they should have just let his constituents decide.   Not sure what he was like as a congressman but you would have thought with his history he would have had to be the greatest congressman in history to be reelected.  He should have been working his socks of 24/7.

Have to think they have set a dangerous precedent,  expelling a politican for lying.  Could end up being a very empty place.

He was actually expelled for violating campaign finance laws after an ethics committee investigation into him & 23 felony charges against him: 9 counts of wire fraud, 3 counts of money laundering, 2 counts of theft of public funds, 2 counts of making materially false statements to the house of representatives, 1 count of conspiracy to commit offenses against the United States, 1 count of making false statements to the FEC, 2 counts of falsifying a record or document, 2 counts of aggravated identity theft, and 1 count of unlawful monetary transactions over $10,000.

It's beyond a politician lying - there's some careers that aren't even public servant jobs (like my own) where a single charge alleging fraud would mean I lose their job and depending on how damning the charges are (and the likelihood of conviction) probably their careers.. For public servants, especially, there should be a higher standard of scrutiny.

That democratic senator from NY who's been indicted for bribery also should be removed with a vote across party lines. It is the common sense thing to do - even before conviction. If they are found to be innocent they should be allowed back in, but having legislators who have been charged for financial crimes and/or fraud is simply unacceptable.

Regardless of political affiliation, every elected official in any democratic society should be under strict public scrutiny. And protecting taxpayers from being legislated by criminals who steal their money that should be spent to their benefit is of paramount importance.

[OrangeKhrush]

watching two establishment talking heads was only going to push people more towards Trump

[Spike]

Trump could not be more establishment. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

24 minutes ago, Spike said:

Trump could not be more establishment. 

The Florida governor at that debate is also just trying to out Trump Trump because his presidential campaign is floundering.

I’m pretty sure Hannity & Newsom actually get on really well (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2023-11-26/fox-news-host-sean-hannity-newsom-desantis-debate) - so even while hosting a debate where Newsom had a moderator appearing hostile (after all, it’s all really just theatre for Fox viewers)… I think that was a hit job on DeSantis.

And for Newsom, it’s twofold campaigning - he made the case for Biden in 2024 to Fox viewers who typically wouldn’t give him any time of day. And he’s setting himself up for 2028 - and going onto Fox, handling a moderator appearing against him, and making a case to Fox viewers without belittling their personalities or feelings (which Hilary failed miserably at).

Whereas DeSantis came off looking worse than I could imagine. I’m surprised he’s won any political office tbh. Aside from his awful politics, he’s got the charisma of a fart with shit in it.

[OrangeKhrush]

16 hours ago, Spike said:

Trump could not be more establishment. 

about as establishment as Robert Kennedy Jr.

if you are anti war, anti licking Chinese nuts and wanting to close the southern border, implement new immigration policies, you are not establishment.   

Ron is a traitor and Nuisance is a opportunist, Ron has no chance of beating Trump and he has damaged his reputation in the process.   Nuisance may be able to replace Biden but isn't vary popular.   Rob Kennedy Jr is the best democrat option, but because he isn't part of the gang they will make him disappear like his dad.

Mitch, Mcarthy, Cheney, Romney and the rest of the Republican charlatans will watch their two shills get absolutely destroyed by Trump.

The media machine is really spinning up the sensationalism WaPo "A Trump dictatorship looking likely" fucking hilarious how the use of fear to coerce people into this notion that democracy is at stake when all they have done for 8 years is lie to try destroy a rival by suggesting hailing someone for nothing which is as anti democratic.

if the democrats had anything to offer Americans they would beat him on policies but they have fuck all which is the reason for the panic.

4 years of fuck all for Americans is probably the reason.

[OrangeKhrush]

16 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The Florida governor at that debate is also just trying to out Trump Trump because his presidential campaign is floundering.

I’m pretty sure Hannity & Newsom actually get on really well (https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2023-11-26/fox-news-host-sean-hannity-newsom-desantis-debate) - so even while hosting a debate where Newsom had a moderator appearing hostile (after all, it’s all really just theatre for Fox viewers)… I think that was a hit job on DeSantis.

And for Newsom, it’s twofold campaigning - he made the case for Biden in 2024 to Fox viewers who typically wouldn’t give him any time of day. And he’s setting himself up for 2028 - and going onto Fox, handling a moderator appearing against him, and making a case to Fox viewers without belittling their personalities or feelings (which Hilary failed miserably at).

Whereas DeSantis came off looking worse than I could imagine. I’m surprised he’s won any political office tbh. Aside from his awful politics, he’s got the charisma of a fart with shit in it.

neither were good and it ended up being a shit throwing contest, Ron at least can say he has a well run state and a track record but nuisance is utterly shameless.

At least when you said you were are Bernie boy I could take it seriously.  While Bernies socialism drive was bona fides and genuinely for the interest of Americans across the board, he was a naive idealist oblivious to how socialism doesn't work, he was however genuine and had a plan.   He was also fucked over royally in Iowa, he should have been the democrat nominee but it was rigged 

[Rucksackfranzose]

53 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

about as establishment as Robert Kennedy Jr.

if you are anti war, anti licking Chinese nuts and wanting to close the southern border, implement new immigration policies, you are not establishment.   

Ron is a traitor and Nuisance is a opportunist, Ron has no chance of beating Trump and he has damaged his reputation in the process.   Nuisance may be able to replace Biden but isn't vary popular.   Rob Kennedy Jr is the best democrat option, but because he isn't part of the gang they will make him disappear like his dad.

Mitch, Mcarthy, Cheney, Romney and the rest of the Republican charlatans will watch their two shills get absolutely destroyed by Trump.

The media machine is really spinning up the sensationalism WaPo "A Trump dictatorship looking likely" fucking hilarious how the use of fear to coerce people into this notion that democracy is at stake when all they have done for 8 years is lie to try destroy a rival by suggesting hailing someone for nothing which is as anti democratic.

if the democrats had anything to offer Americans they would beat him on policies but they have fuck all which is the reason for the panic.

4 years of fuck all for Americans is probably the reason.

Go on then, enlighten us. How can somebody become and stay a billionaire without being established in their respective society?

Edited December 3, 2023 by Rucksackfranzose

[Spike]

9 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Go on then, enlight5en us. How can somebody become and stay a billionaire without being established in their respective society?

Thanks for saving me the trouble mate, I was about kick on with this line of thought,

[OrangeKhrush]

17 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Go on then, enlighten us. How can somebody become and stay a billionaire without being established in their respective society?

being establish in society is not the same thing as the political establishment.  you have a Republican and Democrat inner establishment and both aisles pander to the same interests, usually ones that make them rich.

you will find republicans and democrats will unanimously agree on issues that make them rich but do fuck all for Americans ie: wars, vaccines, government controlled banking, energy and food.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, OrangeKhrush said:

neither were good and it ended up being a shit throwing contest, Ron at least can say he has a well run state and a track record but nuisance is utterly shameless.

At least when you said you were are Bernie boy I could take it seriously.  While Bernies socialism drive was bona fides and genuinely for the interest of Americans across the board, he was a naive idealist oblivious to how socialism doesn't work, he was however genuine and had a plan.   He was also fucked over royally in Iowa, he should have been the democrat nominee but it was rigged 

I like how idiots who’ve never been to California think it’s not a well run state, despite it being the economic engine of the US. And in my opinion, by far and away the best state in the US.

But somehow Florida, with the worst inflation in the US & that’s spent the last couple of years attacking one of the largest employers in the state is well run.

[OrangeKhrush]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I like how idiots who’ve never been to California think it’s not a well run state, despite it being the economic engine of the US. And in my opinion, by far and away the best state in the US.

But somehow Florida, with the worst inflation in the US & that’s spent the last couple of years attacking one of the largest employers in the state is well run.

Judging a country's financial growth based on GDP is a misnomer,  having the highest population means the highest number of workers but in terms of revenue produced California is around 7th.

Drug problems

homelessness is growing

disparity between rich and poor the greatest in the US

hard to build because of zoning regulations that favour the wealthy.  

highest taxation in the US.

unaffordable housing which ties into zoning and the gap between the have and have nots. 

Who said I haven't been?  I worked in the US for 14 months in 2008-2009 back then it was actually not bad,  but the worst thing about Los Angeles is the traffic.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just now, OrangeKhrush said:

Judging a country's financial growth based on GDP is a misnomer,  having the highest population means the highest number of workers but in terms of revenue produced California is around 7th.

Drug problems

homelessness is growing

disparity between rich and poor the greatest in the US

hard to build because of zoning regulations that favour the wealthy.  

highest taxation in the US.

unaffordable housing which ties into zoning and the gap between the have and have nots. 

Who said I haven't been?  I worked in the US for 14 months in 2008-2009 back then it was actually not bad,  but the worst thing about Los Angeles is the traffic.

Texas has a higher effective tax rate than California. Their property taxes are actually insane.

Most of those other problems exist in literally every other state, California just has more people.

[OrangeKhrush]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Texas has a higher effective tax rate than California. Their property taxes are actually insane.

Most of those other problems exist in literally every other state, California just has more people.

I won't really include crime as it is a fluid metric eg: white collar societies like Connecticut, Vermont etc where the very rich people pay to keep undesirables out will have a disproportionately low crime rate.   If you cross sectioned California to hotspots,  you will probably see Beverley Hills would be very low crime as the rich will segregate themselves from the rest of society. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/200445/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-us-states/  

Sure population size is one aspect, but conversely a lower population state will have a higher percentage due to the lower population, eg nobody really wants to live in South Dakota, so the percentage of convicts will be higher due to the smaller total population and likely getting smaller,  while California will have an increasing population despite the crime being higher. 

[OrangeKhrush]

In terms of performance,  per an LA source Newsome's approval rating fell from 55% in February to 42% current with the disapproval peaking over 50%.   Ron DeSantis has seen a spike in disapproval notably amongst conservatives but still has a 51% approval and 45% disapproval. 

With America's embargos on trades,  it has affected the imports to Florida which was a large part of the local economy,  this means Florida has to buy internally at a higher rate because there is less,  Florida is a victim of the national government like many others,  bidenomics at work. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I won't really include crime as it is a fluid metric eg: white collar societies like Connecticut, Vermont etc where the very rich people pay to keep undesirables out will have a disproportionately low crime rate.   If you cross sectioned California to hotspots,  you will probably see Beverley Hills would be very low crime as the rich will segregate themselves from the rest of society. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/200445/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-us-states/  

Sure population size is one aspect, but conversely a lower population state will have a higher percentage due to the lower population, eg nobody really wants to live in South Dakota, so the percentage of convicts will be higher due to the smaller total population and likely getting smaller,  while California will have an increasing population despite the crime being higher. 

Drug problems and homelessness generally seem to be way up. When I was in Charlotte it was a little jarring because the downtown area was like a ghost town compared to every other downtown of any US city I’ve ever been to. And the route from my hotel downtown to the airport took me through some areas demonstrating the worst poverty I’ve seen in the US. And I live in California, I’ve seen homeless encampments grow… I’ve seen LA’s skid row. I’ve never seen anything like the run down poor areas of Charlotte. And I’ve never seen a city with such a dead city centre - I assume many businesses left and nobody’s taken their places.

Interestingly I took a look and CA doesn’t even have a top 5 highest tax rate in the US. Poor @Spikein Illinois is experiencing the highest effective tax rate in the US. Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New York and Kansas round out the top 5.

The worst thing I can say about California is it’s very expensive. But while cost of living is also very high, quality of living is also very high.

But California gets way too much shit from certain people and media outlets because they don’t like the politics of the state (while ignoring that it’s the state with the most republicans and the most democrats). Most of the issues that are genuine issues for California are issues that plague all states… and many countries around the world tbh. There’s just a hell of a lot more people.

And imo that’s more a failing of federal legislators than any state politics.

[OrangeKhrush]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Drug problems and homelessness generally seem to be way up. When I was in Charlotte it was a little jarring because the downtown area was like a ghost town compared to every other downtown of any US city I’ve ever been to. And the route from my hotel downtown to the airport took me through some areas demonstrating the worst poverty I’ve seen in the US. And I live in California, I’ve seen homeless encampments grow… I’ve seen LA’s skid row. I’ve never seen anything like the run down poor areas of Charlotte. And I’ve never seen a city with such a dead city centre - I assume many businesses left and nobody’s taken their places.

Interestingly I took a look and CA doesn’t even have a top 5 highest tax rate in the US. Poor @Spikein Illinois is experiencing the highest effective tax rate in the US. Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New York and Kansas round out the top 5.

The worst thing I can say about California is it’s very expensive. But while cost of living is also very high, quality of living is also very high.

But California gets way too much shit from certain people and media outlets because they don’t like the politics of the state (while ignoring that it’s the state with the most republicans and the most democrats). Most of the issues that are genuine issues for California are issues that plague all states… and many countries around the world tbh. There’s just a hell of a lot more people.

And imo that’s more a failing of federal legislators than any state politics.

Poor spike indeed,  Ilinois is by many metrics one of the states you wouldn't want to be in right now.    In my experience I enjoyed Illinois/Michigan for the yachting,  America was also very different then. 

I also found that it was almost impossible to tell the difference between conservative and democrats at that time,  America was really unified.  I did have the odd stupid Americans approach me about apartheid which I would explain to them that first off I was born in Lithuania,  my family moved to Israel where I lived there until I was 7,  my family then moved to South Africa at that stage it was the early 80's and Apartheid was long over,  the New National Party won and undid the damage the National Party did in the 50's and 60's,  I was also way to young to have any active experiences with Apartheid.  My parents told me about issues with the Afrikaans government and Jews but I can't really say much on that.    I just know how hard it was to explain timelines and the fact you are white doesn't mean you were considered equal. 

That was about as enjoyable of having to fuck with few of them who think it is like George of the jungle and you live with animals,  tell them that I had a pet lion and they were gullible enough to believe it.   American's world perception on Africa was rather funny. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, OrangeKhrush said:

Poor spike indeed,  Ilinois is by many metrics one of the states you wouldn't want to be in right now.    In my experience I enjoyed Illinois/Michigan for the yachting,  America was also very different then. 

I also found that it was almost impossible to tell the difference between conservative and democrats at that time,  America was really unified.  I did have the odd stupid Americans approach me about apartheid which I would explain to them that first off I was born in Lithuania,  my family moved to Israel where I lived there until I was 7,  my family then moved to South Africa at that stage it was the early 80's and Apartheid was long over,  the New National Party won and undid the damage the National Party did in the 50's and 60's,  I was also way to young to have any active experiences with Apartheid.  My parents told me about issues with the Afrikaans government and Jews but I can't really say much on that.    I just know how hard it was to explain timelines and the fact you are white doesn't mean you were considered equal. 

That was about as enjoyable of having to fuck with few of them who think it is like George of the jungle and you live with animals,  tell them that I had a pet lion and they were gullible enough to believe it.   American's world perception on Africa was rather funny. 

Before 2016, I don’t think people wearing their politics on their sleeves was all that common. The rise of populism and the way the media has pushed partisan divisions has really changed the political landscape of America.

The media’s really fucked up national politics in the US and I’m not sure there’s any way for them to unfuck it.

I also don’t think Illinois, or at least Chicago, is too bad to live in. It has problems, but everywhere does. In my experience it’s one of the best cities in America despite its problems. It’s probably worse if you live in some border town with Illinois or something.

[Spike]

Apartheid ended in the 90s not 80s. Everyone knows that. Pic from 1989

[OrangeKhrush]

4 minutes ago, Spike said:

Apartheid ended in the 90s not 80s. Everyone knows that. Pic from 1989

94 if you are going on vote but most of the regulations were dropped through the 80's under the NNP.   

[nudge]

1 hour ago, OrangeKhrush said:

I was born in Lithuania

Didn't expect that, where in Lithuania? Do you still speak the language? When did your family leave?

[OrangeKhrush]

12 minutes ago, nudge said:

Didn't expect that, where in Lithuania? Do you still speak the language? When did your family leave?

I was way below talking age,  my great grand parents were Lithuanian Jews,  they were captured in WW2 and sent to Warsaw,  fortunately when they were captured it was late 1943 at a time where the Reich was falling apart.   They were able to avoid the last trains before the Red army liberated the ghetto.    I have kept their prisoner uniforms and numbers. 

I can only speak Hebrew, Afrikaans, Zulu and English

[Dr. Gonzo]

Kevin McCarthy announces he'll be retiring at the end of the year. Probably off to go get some cushy lobbyist job or following in Paul Ryan's footsteps of being a shit Speaker of the House then getting a Directors job at Fox News.

Glad to see that useless sack of shit will no longer be a part of any sort of governance.

[Azeem]

Texas has got enough petitions to put secession as an option for the primary elections next year

It's happening

[Spike]

15 hours ago, Beelzebub said:

Texas has got enough petitions to put secession as an option for the primary elections next year

It's happening

It won’t be federally recognised because it doesn’t meet the requirements set for seceding.