Chelsea 1-3 Man City - Sunday 3rd January, 2021

[Spike]

Chelsea are fine, Lmapard is fine, dunno what people expect. Sometimes you gotta wait through the bad times to get to the good times, I'd start worrying if the team plays the same in a year's time.

[carefreeluke]

Last summer was probably the best transfer window we've had in ages, we definitely didn't sign too many attackers and I've said already in this topic that in fact, I think the squad is missing attacking players if anything. Part of that is Lampard's fault because he's got players out on loan at the moment that would be good squad options for us.

Until our current bad run, Lampard managed to get the team defending as a unit and we looked very defensively sound. It's not having too many attacking players that's the problem, it's Lampard's management of the team.

[LFCMadLad]

7 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Last summer was probably the best transfer window we've had in ages, we definitely didn't sign too many attackers and I've said already in this topic that in fact, I think the squad is missing attacking players if anything. Part of that is Lampard's fault because he's got players out on loan at the moment that would be good squad options for us.

Until our current bad run, Lampard managed to get the team defending as a unit and we looked very defensively sound. It's not having too many attacking players that's the problem, it's Lampard's management of the team.

Missing attacking players? 

[carefreeluke]

17 minutes ago, Stan said:

As in, too many attacking players but a manager that not doesn't know how to use them/get the best out of them. How many times has he shifted Werner out wide? Is it too out-there to say having too many means that players can't get a good stint in the side and develop those connections with others in the team?

Also - Chilwell, dare I say myself and @Dan 'warned' you about his defensive weaknesses? I distinctly remember us saying that you'll get the attacking side to him no problem, but defensively he's lacking. Positioning can be a bit awry, not great in the air and sometimes loses concentration. So has he improved your 'defence'?

I thought Mendy is fine as is Silva. Latter clearly has the experience. Perhaps Mendy is in a bit of a blip at the moment. He'll get over it as long as he continues to be supported. 

Hindsight is great and all that but perhaps there could have been better cover for James? If I recall correctly you and other Chelsea fans here have mentioned how Azpilicueta is past it and isn't good enough for this league any more despite how good he's been in previous seasons.  

I was never sure on Chilwell and you can look back on the thread, my opinion was always similar to yours and Dan's and after seeing your evaluations (as you guys would know best), it only helped to confirm the opinions I held previously about him. Chilwell has however been one of our best players so far this season, alongside James and Silva. As I've said before, I'll wait a full season though to give a fairer judgement on him and his positive performances could continue or he might get worse, we'll see and I'll judge him accordingly. 

Mount would have been up there as a player of the season so far but he's been run into the ground again. I don't know if it's because Lampard used to play so many games himself that he thinks it's possible for other players to do the same.

[carefreeluke]

13 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Missing attacking players? 

I've explained why in the topic previously mate, I'm not saying we should have signed more but there are players on the loan that should be in the squad but aren't.

How can you expect to play 4-3-3 with two more progressive players and only have in the squad Havertz and Mount to play the role? Particularly this year of all years. We're missing squad options.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

38 minutes ago, Cicero said:

The only player that could've been considered surplus was Havertz. But even then, this was a generational player that was available where there was no competition to secure his signature because of Covid. 

Balance isn't an issue. As Luke mentioned, we needed a holding midfielder but the issues within the team isn't solely down to missing a holding midfielder. This one dimensional play we are seeing has progressed to a point where there's no cohesion and no fluidity within the team. It's getting progressively worse given now performances have dropped as a result. This tracking back issue you speak of, is coached. But the biggest issue is our lack of identity in our play. 

What's nonsensical is @Devil-Dick Willie finding it amusing I think our squad is better than losing to a depleted Everton, Wolves, Arsenal, and Manchester City side. But hey, I'm not slating him for it!

You're genuinely an idiot. Just because I find it amusing doesn't mean I think you're wrong, as I've already alluded to. But that's gone over your gay book reading, Costco David Villa looking head. 

[The Artful Dodger]

I do think loaning out Barkley was a mistake. He does bring something, I feel he’ll go through his whole career without fully realising his talent. Partly his own fault because he’s always on the piss.

[LFCMadLad]

13 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

I've explained why in the topic previously mate, I'm not saying we should have signed more but there are players on the loan that should be in the squad but aren't.

How can you expect to play 4-3-3 with two more progressive players and only have in the squad Havertz and Mount to play the role? Particularly this year of all years. We're missing squad options.

433 doesn't really work with 2 progressive midfielders mate. You need players that drop into space vacated by the fullbacks when attacking etc. That's why we have midfielders such as Hendo, Gini, Thiago, Milner and Fabinho, players that can cover and defend the spaces while the forwards and fullbacks do their stuff.

If its 433 you were wanting to play then you've bought the wrong type of midfielders and have too many attack minded players. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

433 doesn't really work with 2 progressive midfielders mate. You need players that drop into space vacated by the fullbacks when attacking etc. That's why we have midfielders such as Hendo, Gini, Thiago, Milner and Fabinho, players that can cover and defend the spaces while the forwards and fullbacks do their stuff.

BUT IT DOES ON FIFA!!! OUR SQUAD IS NOT UNBALLANCED! 

[carefreeluke]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

433 doesn't really work with 2 progressive midfielders mate. You need players that drop into space vacated by the fullbacks when attacking etc. That's why we have midfielders such as Hendo, Gini, Thiago, Milner and Fabinho, players that can cover and defend the spaces while the forwards and fullbacks do their stuff.

Mount does that a lot mate as well. 

We've managed to use the system and have successful runs of form with it, it's just our football's gone stale and the confidence has gone. A lot of it's to do with Lampard's management, rather than having too many attacking players. Mendy in part looked great when he came in because he barely had anything to do and that's with all those attacking players in the team.

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, carefreeluke said:

Mount does that a lot mate as well. 

We've managed to use the system and have successful runs of form with it, it's just our football's gone stale and the confidence has gone. A lot of it's to do with Lampard's management, rather than having too many attacking players. Mendy in part looked great when he came in because he barely had anything to do and that's with all those attacking players in the team.

You watch when we play, Hendo, Gini, Thiago, Fabinho etc all end up in the fulkback/deep midfield areas covering the spaces left by our FB's etc when the ball is lost. 

Then you need one or two of them to quickly advance the ball forward when possession is won. 

That's classic 433 mate. Chelsea do nothing of the sort, in fact I'm not even sure what formation Chelsea play anymore.? Its like a 415.

[carefreeluke]

9 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I do think loaning out Barkley was a mistake. He does bring something, I feel he’ll go through his whole career without fully realising his talent. Partly his own fault because he’s always on the piss.

Barkley isn't the answer but he's viable squad option with the system Lampard has been using, he suited the system a lot more than some of the current players we have and had a good run of form last season after lockdown. Yes, we know what he's like, inconsistent... but that's less of a problem if he's being used as a squad player. We also have other players out on loan that could be used to give Mount and Havertz a rest or time out the team for whatever reason. Mount, Havertz and Kanté have been mismanaged and run into the ground.

[carefreeluke]

11 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You watch when we play, Hendo, Gini, Thiago, Fabinho etc all end up in the fulkback/deep midfield areas covering the spaces left by our FB's etc when the ball is lost. 

Then you need one or two of them to quickly advance the ball forward when possession is won. 

That's classic 433 mate. Chelsea do nothing of the sort, in fact I'm not even sure what formation Chelsea play anymore.? Its like a 415.

When I say two progressive midfielders, I think people are thinking Mount and Havertz are attacking and that's it, they're not. What I mean are players that get and play in between the lines and have an attacking threat. It doesn't mean they're attacking all the time, Mount is one of the most hardworking players in the league and we all know the ground Kanté can cover. All the attacking players were putting in the work off the ball, that was never the issue. It's just our midfield has been completely mismanaged in a lot of ways, Lampard's failed to keep it fresh.

What about Pep's teams? Were the best of his teams filled with defensive players? Football is full of different ways of doing things.

[Burning Gold]

36 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

I've explained why in the topic previously mate, I'm not saying we should have signed more but there are players on the loan that should be in the squad but aren't.

How can you expect to play 4-3-3 with two more progressive players and only have in the squad Havertz and Mount to play the role? Particularly this year of all years. We're missing squad options.

That sounds like an issue with midfielders rather than attackers. You've got Werner, Havertz, Hudson-Odoi, Abraham, Giroud, Pulisic and Ziyech to squeeze into 3 or 4 positions. Take out Abraham and Giroud as they're only strikers and you've got 5 players for 2 positions if you want to play 4-3-3, and 3 of them were signed this summer. I don't see how you don't have too many attackers, or at least you're heavily overloaded in attack with obvious deficiencies elsewhere and your summer recruitment was poorly thought out

[Cicero]

39 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

You're genuinely an idiot. Just because I find it amusing doesn't mean I think you're wrong, as I've already alluded to. But that's gone over your gay book reading, Costco David Villa looking head. 

It was gay anime. At least get that right knobhead. 

23 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You watch when we play, Hendo, Gini, Thiago, Fabinho etc all end up in the fulkback/deep midfield areas covering the spaces left by our FB's etc when the ball is lost. 

Then you need one or two of them to quickly advance the ball forward when possession is won. 

That's classic 433 mate. Chelsea do nothing of the sort, in fact I'm not even sure what formation Chelsea play anymore.? Its like a 415.

Again, this goes back to coaching.

It isn't that all surprising Klopp is more efficient in the training ground compared to Lampard. The former has an ideology and his players have bought into the ideology because he is a better coach. Creating space, fluidity of ball movement, tactically aptitude, etc. 

It really is bizarre you're now comparing us to you/Klopp when you've literally created a thread on how Klopp is the best manager in the world. 

[carefreeluke]

7 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

That sounds like an issue with midfielders rather than attackers. You've got Werner, Havertz, Hudson-Odoi, Abraham, Giroud, Pulisic and Ziyech to squeeze into 3 or 4 positions. Take out Abraham and Giroud as they're only strikers and you've got 5 players for 2 positions if you want to play 4-3-3, and 3 of them were signed this summer. I don't see how you don't have too many attackers, or at least you're heavily overloaded in attack with obvious deficiencies elsewhere and your summer recruitment was poorly thought out

Maybe my wording is wrong? Midfielders with an attacking threat? What do you call Mount? Barkley? Havertz? Loftus-Cheek? Those type of players?

Another thing is Kovacic and Jorginho? What the hell are they? I've watched them for 2-3 years now and I still don't know what they do. 

[LFCMadLad]

11 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

When I say two progressive midfielders, I think people are thinking Mount and Havertz are attacking and that's it, they're not. What I mean are players that get and play in between the lines and have an attacking threat. It doesn't mean they're attacking all the time, Mount is one of the most hardworking players in the league and we all know the ground Kanté can cover. All the attacking players were putting in the work off the ball, that was never the issue. It's just our midfield has been completely mismanaged in a lot of ways, Lampard's failed to keep it fresh.

What about Pep's teams? Were the best of his teams filled with defensive players? Football is full of different ways of doing things.

Mount and Havertz are definitely attack minded players mate.

And you don't have to be the most hard working players to drop into defensive positions when the team is attacking! That's what I mean by balance. 

When our fullbacks advance to join up with our front three, the midfield players cover the spaces vacated. It's simple really. 

When the opposition have the ball we already have the spaces covered, but then we have a trigger press to win the ball back. 

Basically it means you can always have plenty in attack whilst also having plenty in defensive positions. 

That's basically 433.

[Cicero]

You both are basically saying the same thing. Players are being mismanaged to the system they are playing. 

[LFCMadLad]

8 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It was gay anime. At least get that right knobhead. 

Again, this goes back to coaching.

It isn't that all surprising Klopp is more efficient in the training ground compared to Lampard. The former has an ideology and his players have bought into the ideology because he is a better coach. Creating space, fluidity of ball movement, tactically aptitude, etc. 

It really is bizarre you're now comparing us to you/Klopp when you've literally created a thread on how Klopp is the best manager in the world. 

What you talking about? 

I was simply explaining how 433 works?

Jump down lad, it was only my opinion. And Lampard might be wise to take tips from Klopp, because yes, he's possibly the best in the world as things stand. 

Is havertz no longer your avatar? 

[LFCMadLad]

4 minutes ago, Cicero said:

You both are basically saying the same thing. Players are being mismanaged to the system they are playing. 

Not really cos he was saying one thing and I was saying another. 

His idea of 433 is different to mine. 

[carefreeluke]

Yours is a different system though, there are different styles and different ways of playing a shape. There's not a sole way of playing 4-3-3, football isn't that rigid.

Before we never gave the opposition the chance to exploit those areas because our counter-press was so good and we had a similar structure in place to what you mentioned there, with players being in good positions if we lost the ball. James and Chilwell haven't been exploited defensively all season. Since Mendy came in which corresponded with our good run, we didn't really look out of balance at all, with all those attacking players on the pitch.

Our attacking play now has gone incredibly stale which has caused doubt to creep in and mistakes to happen. Our defensive shape was awful today at times but it's because we've lost what made us good earlier this season, Lampard's mismanaged it completely.

[LFCMadLad]

Fuck this, every time you try to have a normal conversation on here it comes down to a buttercup stage off.

@Cicero I wasn't creating a thread on klopp at all. I was just trying to have a conversation with your fellow blue until you came along and fucked it up. 

Bye.

[Cicero]

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Not really cos he was saying one thing and I was saying another. 

His idea of 433 is different to mine. 

You're saying midfielders have certain roles to effectively execute a 433. Luke is saying our midfielders have been mismanaged where they can't effectively execute their roles. 

Different points, but the premise is the same. 

Just now, LFCMadLad said:

Fuck this, every time you try to have a normal conversation on here it comes down to a buttercup stage off.

@Cicero I wasn't creating a thread on klopp at all. I was just trying to have a conversation with your fellow blue until you came along and fucked it up. 

Bye.

P is for Precious? 

 

[LFCMadLad]

1 minute ago, carefreeluke said:

Yours is a different system though, there are different styles and different ways of playing a shape. There's not a sole way of playing 4-3-3, football isn't that rigid.

Before we never gave the opposition the chance to exploit those areas because our counter-press was so good and we had a similar structure in place to what you mentioned there, with players being in good positions if we lost the ball. James and Chilwell haven't been exploited defensively all season. Since Mendy came in which corresponded with our good run, we didn't really look out of balance at all, with all those attacking players on the pitch.

Our attacking play now has gone incredibly stale which has caused doubt to creep in and mistakes to happen. Our defensive shape was awful today at times but it's because we've lost what made us good earlier this season and the players are being mismanaged.

Fair enough mate, pick this up again another time... im off to watch crime investigation 

[carefreeluke]

I need a break as well. 

Been on here too long tonight.